cav551:
All the more reason in similar circumstances, when confronted by PC Plod who you think is incorrect, to request and if necessary insist that he speaks to his Sergeant.
However he should have been doing manual entries to record his overnight and weekly rest periods so this may have been his downfall.
A print out from the company tacho analysis program for the previous 28 days should confirm what entries were recorded and he should be guided by the results of this whether to take matters further.
Since it seems to be impossible to appeal a paid FPN he is left with writing a letter of complaint to the Cheif Constable of Essex Police, stating that PC 123 is incorrect in his interpretation of the law because it is not a practicable proposition to leave the card in the tacho overnight for the various reasons already mentioned. Possibly worth mentioning that his personal circumstances left him feeling intimidated by the potential costs of challenging the FPN which, since he is not a Union member, is why it was paid. Request an answer in writing within 7 days overturning the FPN.
When a card is inserted into the head on a digi-tacho a question prompt is
“Rest until now?”
Driver pushes OK button, and rest is recorded.
Difficult, but not impossible I guess, to get that wrong.
wyefielder:
I can assure everyone of you doubting Thomas’s the story is true I even spoke to the driver and told him to fight it, my company approached the DVSA about it and was told although they take no action against drivers who eject their card it was a grey area and by all accounts the Essex Police are interpreting the law to suit themselves, the driver paid the fine because if it was unpaid by a certain date the fie would double to £100
The answer would have been see you in court ■■■■■■■■■■
wyefielder:
One of our companys vehicles was stopped by Essex Police lately [mainly because of the company name] anyway after a good check all over the unit and trailer they seemed to be a bit despondent they could find nothing wrong so decided to scrutinise the drivers digi card, again everything was in order [we run 100% legal] that is until one eagle eyed officer of the law noticed the driver had been ejecting his card at the end of every shift, the driver was informed it was illegal and promply issued a £50 fine, Should the driver have gone to court or just do as he did and pay it.
Members opinions and advice would be greatly appreciated
In one breath you say you run legit ?
In the next breath you get stopped because of your name ?
So what’s the story
wyefielder:
I can assure everyone of you doubting Thomas’s the story is true I even spoke to the driver and told him to fight it, my company approached the DVSA about it and was told although they take no action against drivers who eject their card it was a grey area and by all accounts the Essex Police are interpreting the law to suit themselves, the driver paid the fine because if it was unpaid by a certain date the fie would double to £100
No it is NOT a grey area whatsoever, it’s black and white.
It ain’t illegal to eject a card when your shift is finished.
Either your mate is gullible for just taking it (assuming it actually happened that is) or you are for believing him…or both.
wyefielder:
I can assure everyone of you doubting Thomas’s the story is true I even spoke to the driver and told him to fight it, my company approached the DVSA about it and was told although they take no action against drivers who eject their card it was a grey area and by all accounts the Essex Police are interpreting the law to suit themselves, the driver paid the fine because if it was unpaid by a certain date the fie would double to £100
No it is NOT a grey area whatsoever, it’s black and white.
It ain’t illegal to eject a card when your shift is finished.
Either your mate is gullible for just taking it (assuming it actually happened that is) or you are for believing him…or both.
Franglais:
When a card is inserted into the head on a digi-tacho a question prompt is
“Rest until now?”
On a Stoneridge it does, but on the other ones its a little more work. However it’ll revert to ? in my experience which is interpreted as rest.
As for the FPN, I thought you had something like 30 days to pay those via the appropriate channels or decide to take it to court. Not like you have to pay them on the spot unless perhaps a non UK licence holder.
Personally I would have asked the company if they have a legal rep to consult first before paying up something which has no basis. Be interesting to see exactly what the FPN said and why they think this was an offence.
Technically, if you commit an offence with the tacho, isn’t that supposed to be reported to the traffic commissioner?
Finally, am a bit confused as to why the police are stopping trucks based on a company name? I would assume they don’t have access to the DVSA “traffic light” system so couldn’t tell that x compsny has been known to run dodgy or suspect.
Unless of course the company is called “[fb] the pigs” or similar.
There is no requirement to leave the card in at the end of the shift (indeed, for the majority of drivers this is simply not practicable unless they are sleeping in the lorry). What is required though is for the Rest period to be recorded as such - either by doing manual input/answering “Yes” to the question “Rest until Now?” or by making written entries on a chart or printout. Either method will result in Rest being recorded (Bed symbol). At a guess the OP’s colleague has been recording “?” between shifts with no alternative paper record confirming that he was indeed on Rest.
Driver was rightly fined for not recording manual entry.
If driver did record manual entry ‘?’ would not be shown.
Where driver spend night in vehicle there is no reason to eject card. If driver spend night away, manual entry must be recorded with other work after ejecting card. Usually time driver needs to be debriefed or to leave yard, finish time should correspond with timesheet.
LL79:
Driver was rightly fined for not recording manual entry.
If driver did record manual entry ‘?’ would not be shown.
Where driver spend night in vehicle there is no reason to eject card. If driver spend night away, manual entry must be recorded with other work after ejecting card. Usually time driver needs to be debriefed or to leave yard, finish time should correspond with timesheet.
If he selects “?” as the mode when doing his manual entry, then that is what will be recorded…
You said that if he made a manual entry then “?” would not be shown…
[/quote]
Officers clearly found out that card was ejected, so i assume ‘?’ was shown on download. If manual entry has been done correctly with rest period shown they would not know if card was ejected, nor had any reason to fine the driver.
I do not want to see drivers geting fined, but too many just don’t follow basic rules.
wyefielder:
I can assure everyone of you doubting Thomas’s the story is true I even spoke to the driver and told him to fight it, my company approached the DVSA about it and was told although they take no action against drivers who eject their card it was a grey area and by all accounts the Essex Police are interpreting the law to suit themselves, the driver paid the fine because if it was unpaid by a certain date the fie would double to £100
If anyone tells you “its a grey area” poke them in the eye and take it to court, it means they don’t know what they are talking about.
Its the same thing when you pull on the weighbridge at 43950kg and they tell you to keep an eye on your weights
wyefielder:
I can assure everyone of you doubting Thomas’s the story is true I even spoke to the driver and told him to fight it, my company approached the DVSA about it and was told although they take no action against drivers who eject their card it was a grey area and by all accounts the Essex Police are interpreting the law to suit themselves, the driver paid the fine because if it was unpaid by a certain date the fie would double to £100
If anyone tells you “its a grey area” poke them in the eye and take it to court, it means they don’t know what they are talking about.
There’s no grey area.A continuous 24 hour record should be shown if it’s not possible to use the vehicle tacho for that then a manual entry is made to fill in any unrecorded gaps.
So the copper says the tacho chart/card was removed you say yes because a manual entry had to be made away fom the vehicle here it is.Much easier in better days when it was all on the same chart using the graph provided on the back of it.They call that progress.
The only grey area is when anyone takes it for granted that they’ll always turn a blind eye to other work/daily rest etc not being recorded.In which case what’s the point of any daily record keeping and the other work/daily rest recording facilities on the tacho.
LL79:
Driver was rightly fined for not recording manual entry.
If driver did record manual entry ‘?’ would not be shown.
Where driver spend night in vehicle there is no reason to eject card. If driver spend night away, manual entry must be recorded with other work after ejecting card. Usually time driver needs to be debriefed or to leave yard, finish time should correspond with timesheet.
^ That’s why the old paper tacho charts had a log book type graph on the back of them.Which was used to make a 24 hour record including daily rest period taken at home/away from the vehicle.
Realistically without that facility digi tachos need to be used in conjunction with a proper domestic regs type log book to record manual entries on.
wyefielder:
One of our companys vehicles was stopped by Essex Police lately [mainly because of the company name] anyway after a good check all over the unit and trailer they seemed to be a bit despondent they could find nothing wrong so decided to scrutinise the drivers digi card, again everything was in order [we run 100% legal] that is until one eagle eyed officer of the law noticed the driver had been ejecting his card at the end of every shift, the driver was informed it was illegal and promply issued a £50 fine, Should the driver have gone to court or just do as he did and pay it.
Members opinions and advice would be greatly appreciated
In one breath you say you run legit ?
In the next breath you get stopped because of your name ?
So what’s the story
Perhaps in olden times the company that now owns my former company weren’t the best at staying within the Tachograph guidelines, different story now though, the leopard has changed his spots so to speak
wyefielder:
Perhaps in olden times the company that now owns my former company weren’t the best at staying within the Tachograph guidelines, different story now though, the leopard has changed his spots so to speak
Then it’s best to make sure that a proper 24 hour record is kept using manual entries accounting for all other work/daily rest period not recorded by the vehicle tacho.Why wouldn’t anyone want to do so.
LL79:
Driver was rightly fined for not recording manual entry.
If driver did record manual entry ‘?’ would not be shown.
Where driver spend night in vehicle there is no reason to eject card. If driver spend night away, manual entry must be recorded with other work after ejecting card. Usually time driver needs to be debriefed or to leave yard, finish time should correspond with timesheet.
^ That’s why the old paper tacho charts had a log book type graph on the back of them.Which was used to make a 24 hour record including daily rest period taken at home/away from the vehicle.
Realistically without that facility digi tachos need to be used in conjunction with a proper domestic regs type log book to record manual entries on.
