Does anyone know the definitive law on paper rolls?
The reason I ask, is because a friend of mine today reckons it’s not a legal requirement to have one in the printer, but you must carry one in case a print out is needed, (Vosa for example.) and he has just had an assessment at a very well known supermarket rdc in Yorkshire, and this came from the driver trainer.
Ken.
The law says something vague like that you must have “sufficient” paper in case vosa/plod want you to print something out. “Sufficient” isn’t defined but it is generally accepted as the norm to have the roll in the head plus a spare.
Paul
Trust me, it is 
repton:
The law says something vague like that you must have “sufficient” paper in case vosa/plod want you to print something out. “Sufficient” isn’t defined but it is generally accepted as the norm to have the roll in the head plus a spare.
“sufficient” is already generally defined. If you are working for a week on paper charts then you need 6 charts for the week. The amount of roll you carry should be enough to print out to make manual entries for the week, or day depending upon what you are doing. But apart from the technicalities its not true that you need a roll in the tacho head plus a spare roll. So what Quinny says is right.
Mike-C:
If you are working for a week on paper charts then you need 6 charts for the week.
I think you may find that is to have enough charts for the week plus a few extra in case of needing to replace a damaged chart etc - I don’t think a number is specified
Mike-C:
But apart from the technicalities its not true that you need a roll in the tacho head plus a spare roll.
My point is that what you “need” is not actually defined. You must be able to “carry out a printout on request” as the link above shows. So you could interpret that as “as long as there is a couple of feet left on the roll in the head then you’re legal”. But of course if that’s all you have on Monday you’re away all week you could easily find that you get stopped on Friday and there isn’t enough left to keep the ministry happy. Hence why it is generally accepted as best practice (but not a legal requirement) to carry a spare.
Paul
repton:
Mike-C:
But apart from the technicalities its not true that you need a roll in the tacho head plus a spare roll.My point is that what you “need” is not actually defined. You must be able to “carry out a printout on request” as the link above shows. So you could interpret that as “as long as there is a couple of feet left on the roll in the head then you’re legal”. But of course if that’s all you have on Monday you’re away all week you could easily find that you get stopped on Friday and there isn’t enough left to keep the ministry happy. Hence why it is generally accepted as best practice (but not a legal requirement) to carry a spare.
Paul
Confused:
Why should you not have enough left on the Friday, There is no law saying you have to print it out between times and there is no reason I can think of for compelling a driver to do so■■?
Jim
jcfd55:
Confused:
Why should you not have enough left on the Friday, There is no law saying you have to print it out between times and there is no reason I can think of for compelling a driver to do so■■?
Driver takes enough roll for 4 printouts but gets stopped 5 times - driver now in trouble !!
At a guess, I would think enough for your current day + the previous 28 days work is the correct amount!
I assume that you are required to produce these records at the roadside when requested (regardless of digi or analogue). Also plod/vosa wouldn’t always have the tools to download/analyse the card or vu.
(didn’t someone get held on the continent, possibly Belgium, a year or two back because he couldn’t print his records?)
Quinny:
…and this came from the driver trainer.
If a driver trainer told me it was raining I’d go outside an check. I am fast reaching the opinion most of what comes out of these peoples mouths is bullcrap.
jcfd55:
Confused:
Why should you not have enough left on the Friday, There is no law saying you have to print it out between times and there is no reason I can think of for compelling a driver to do so■■?Jim
Article 12 ‘departure’
Change of vehicle (to analogue)
There’s two to be going on with 
dambuster:
jcfd55:
Confused:
Why should you not have enough left on the Friday, There is no law saying you have to print it out between times and there is no reason I can think of for compelling a driver to do so■■?Jim
Article 12 ‘departure’
Change of vehicle (to analogue)
There’s two to be going on with
I only see one there, no need for a printout when changing from digi to analogue mid shift. I can see other reasons to make it more than one but not the one you mentioned.
You’re gonna make me go reading - ainchta
A qiuck scan-read (and auto search for “print” ) and I can’t find it. It comes from the idea you have to be able to show record.
If you’ve change vehicle, digi to analogue, mid shift, then subsequently get a pull, if say plod doesn’t have a reader/download in his Volvo then you have to be able to marry your earlier digi record to the now current analogue. Summat along them lines anyway.
dambuster:
A qiuck scan-read (and auto search for “print” ) and I can’t find it.
You won’t because it’s not something you have to do.
dambuster:
If you’ve change vehicle, digi to analogue, mid shift, then subsequently get a pull, if say plod doesn’t have a reader/download in his Volvo then you have to be able to marry your earlier digi record to the now current analogue. Summat along them lines anyway.
That would be plod’s problem. It’s true you have to produce a record and by producing your digi card you satisfy that requirement. If they can’t read it it is not your problem.
If your thinking was correct why don’t we have to take a printout each day? We have to be able to produce records covering 29 days if stopped but what if we were driving digi for the previous 28 and analogue on the 29th? That is the same scenario as swapping mid shift.
I’m with the above posters, but i thought you have to be able to produce written records and that it is up to the driver as to what method he uses. so mebbe I got that wrong. Noted the bit about mid shift, thanks!
There is so much mis information about, its no wonder people make up there own rules and then others think its the law
For me my method is: I download my card every Sunday and take a 1 page summary copy with me each week in my little A4 psuedo leather folder case.
I then add my daily record in biro (well my interpretation of it) to the bottom of the summary at the end of each shift. No need to waste toilet paper imho, leave all that stuff for the Vosa creep. Did think about using a diary, but i’d lose the blimming thing!!! 
As a self emp agency driver, I do have two spare rolls in my bag tho
jcfd55:
I’m with the above posters, but i thought you have to be able to produce written records…
No, the word written isn’t there. You must be able to produce records covering 29 days and your digi card is those records, or part of them if driving mixed analogue and digi.
jcfd55:
and that it is up to the driver as to what method he uses.
Not up to the driver, the regulations clearly define what are records. Try driving an analogue equipped truck and only producing a printout or summary sheet to cover digi driving days when stopped. In fact don’t try it as you would be in a heap of crap.
There is very little in the regulations which is left up to the driver, almost everything is clearly defined in how it must be done.
Yes, thanks I can see that now, it just says records
I’m in the Hatfield depot tonite and Fri ay 21:00hrs for the HFHH21:45 r u around?
Jim
jcfd55:
Yes, thanks I can see that now, it just says recordsI’m in the Hatfield depot tonite and Fri ay 21:00hrs for the HFHH21:45 r u around?
Jim
No mate, my LGV entitlement expires today so no longer in there. Enjoy your run to Birmingham, be safe.