rockape2620:
Havent a clue personally but id have said take it out, the chip inside them is tiny, can it record 24 hours a day for say 5 or 6 days a week and still keep 28 days worth of data on it ? or will it start deleting the begining of the months driving ■■?
cue ROG
Forget Rog, he is snoozing, your little chip will probably hold 10 or 11 months records on easy work. Even on multi drop it will hold much more than 28 days.
I think your wrong mate, the chip is designed to hold 28 days worth of activity, its the head unit that holds 12 months of average driving
The following is taken from my Wincanton Legal Compliance course notes
“At any one time the driver card holds 28 days of information about driver activities (the average activity of a driver is defined as 93 activity changes per day).
The digital tachograph vehicle unit is designed to hold data for 365 days with average use”
God knows what average use is but i think your way out on the card … like i said the chip is tiny …its based on 90’s technology but wasnt introduced until the 2000’s give it a couple of years and we will have cards that easily store a couple of years worth of data …its not so atm …thats why the screen display is the same as mobile phones from the 90’s …its the same old technology
I seem to remember an owner driver on here who has never downloaded his driver card and the info was still there!
Coffeeholic:
Fastrantiger:
Slightly off topic if an offence has been commited, how far back can this information be taken from the card and used? I believe the card will take up to 280 days of info?
Tiger
Cards have to hold a minimum of 28 days but in reality they hold far longer than that. I have around 160 days on my card at the moment and geebee45 mentioned recently he came across a card with around 300 days on it. If the offence is on there VOSA can see it if they check the card. The unit will hold at least a years worth of records and as records also have to retained by the company for at least a year, for tacho regulation purposes, VOSA could potentially take action as far back as that.
Sung to the tune of American Pie.
Well now in the streets the children screamed
The lovers cried and the poets dreamed
But not a word was spoken
The church bells all were broken
And the three men I admire the most
Geebee45, Neil, and the Holy Ghost
They caught the last train for the coast
The day the music died
They started singing
Bye bye Miss American Pie
Drove my chevy to the levee
But the levee was dry
And good old boys were drinkin’ whiskey and rye
Singin’ this will be the day that I die
This will be the day that I die.
Just to add, my mobile phone has a single sim card in it, in the memory are 200 names and addresses, about 750 messages in the inbox and similar in the outbox. I have about 15 emails stored and a word document, a calender with appointment memos and reminders going back 34 years ago when my Dad died.
Wheel Nut:
Just to add, my mobile phone has a single sim card in it, in the memory are 200 names and addresses, about 750 messages in the inbox and similar in the outbox. I have about 15 emails stored and a word document, a calender with appointment memos and reminders going back 34 years ago when my Dad died.
Rick B:
Still no definitive answer then■■? I personally leave it in as a tramper and obviously take it out at weekends. It was a comment from another driver that sparked it - new law…drivers myth
Yes…
No new law and do as you please or as your company tells you.
Being as we dont know and are just guessing / trying to find the right answer i would lay it at the door of your TM … i bet he doesnt know either lol
Either way your defiantly safe to leave it in all week aslong as you download it every week once back at depot …■■■■ hate digi cards lol
Whos guessing?
Im going on what ive been told by Wincanton trainers, i have a massive folder here that states a digi card holds 28 days worth of activity …do a quick google search it tells you the same … im just offering an informed opinion…take it as you want.
Check my 1st post it says i dont have a clue really … just offering informed advice, just to be safe …download it every week
Wheel Nut:
Just to add, my mobile phone has a single sim card in it, in the memory are 200 names and addresses, about 750 messages in the inbox and similar in the outbox. I have about 15 emails stored and a word document, a calender with appointment memos and reminders going back 34 years ago when my Dad died.
rockape2620:
Havent a clue personally but id have said take it out, the chip inside them is tiny, can it record 24 hours a day for say 5 or 6 days a week and still keep 28 days worth of data on it ? or will it start deleting the begining of the months driving ■■?
cue ROG
Forget Rog, he is snoozing, your little chip will probably hold 10 or 11 months records on easy work. Even on multi drop it will hold much more than 28 days.
I think your wrong mate, the chip is designed to hold 28 days worth of activity, its the head unit that holds 12 months of average driving
No he’s not wrong the card is designed to hold a minimum of 28 days of data.
Check your card some time and you’ll be surprised
On the Siemens digital tachograph press “OK” then scroll down to “display driver 1” and press “OK” then scroll down to “24 hour” and press “OK” again, then scroll down through the dates until you get to the oldest and press “OK” to read what you did months ago
Haven’t heard of any new law regarding the withdrawal of driver cards and I doubt there is one.
Personally I always take mine out but that’s just my preference and not law.
geebee45:
Simply leaving the tacho card in the Vehicle Unit (VU) overnight isn’t an offence in itself. In fact most European enforcement agencies require you to record daily and often weekly rest periods on the driver card. To do that you would have to leave it in the VU, or make manual entries at the time of next insertion.
If you mistakenly left the card in overnight was the record made something other than rest? Strictly speaking that is an offence but most officers would call you something along the lines of ‘Numpty,’ and that is as far as it would go. Failing to put start and end locations on the record if the card is left in overnight is again an offence, again, most would ignore it in the case of a genuine error.
THERE IS NO NEW LAW REGARDING TAKING DIGITAL TACHO CARDS OUT OF VU’S AT NIGHT.
Thought I’d make that clear at the start.
If you want to take the card out, do so.
If you want to leave the card in and there is no danger of anybody else moving the vehicle, do so.
I would advise that if driving outside the UK you might want to leave the card in. Many European countries have domestic legislation requiring that a continuous record is made. Although to be fair I didn’t leave charts in overnight and never had a problem.
Word of warning; if you leave the card in make sure you scroll thru the menu and select ‘end duty location’ then select ‘rest’ using the mode button. When you start duty after your rest period scroll thru the menu and select ‘start duty location’ and then select the appropriate mode switch setting, for example; ‘other work’ whilst doing your walk around check.
Cards are designed to hold at least 28 days worth of records before the oldest record gets overwritten. As has already been stated a ‘day’ is regarded as 93 activity changes. Trust me, even on multi-drop you’re very unlikely to get anywhere near half that figure. Have seen loads of cards with over 300 ‘shift days’ on them. Leaving a card in a VU overnight actually store no more data than if the card is taken out. For each change in activity the card stores; activity, if the card was inserted in a VU, slot number that the card was inserted into, whether the VU had one or 2 cards inserted in it at the activity change and the time that the activity changed. The duration of the activity is not recorded, just the start time of the next activity.
Leaving a card in overnight would look like this in raw data terms;
0 Single Inserted Break Or Rest 18:33
0 Single inserted Break or Rest 00:00
0 Single inserted work 06:47
if the card was taken out you would get the following;
0 Unknown not inserted Break or Rest 18:33
0 Unknown not inserted Break or Rest 00:00
0 Single Inserted Work 06:47
Hope that clarifies things.
scottishcruiser:
Best start to put in a manual entry for start and end of shift I guess?
Whats the penalty for not doing so?
Depends if you are new to the job or have an ulterior motive, they have an offence for both .
FAIL, AT THE START OF JOURNEY, TO PRINT OUT DETAILS OF VEHICLE AND TO ENTER ON THE PRINTOUT THE REQUIRED DETAILS
DRIVER
If offence is current £30 FP
PREVIOUS OFFENCES:-
Any 4 or more previous offences which equate to a £60 OR £120 FP offence or one offence which equates to a £200 FP offence
My answer would be I DIDNT KNOW… Newish to digis and I never leave the UK so didnt realise… Always put the mode onto Bed/Rest for when I take my daily rest and it shows when I have 9 or 11 hours off so honestly cant see the problem… But hey, its a bit of a petty offence…
scottishcruiser:
My answer would be I DIDNT KNOW… Newish to digis and I never leave the UK so didnt realise… Always put the mode onto Bed/Rest for when I take my daily rest and it shows when I have 9 or 11 hours off so honestly cant see the problem… But hey, its a bit of a petty offence…
But a lot easier than writing on a tacho chart, full name, place of start, place of finish, two dates and mileages. Would driving off without filling in an analogue card be petty
It could be Maritime want the cards ejected as their drivers are not entering the end country when they finish their shift but are prompted to do so when they eject the card. They may have come up with this fine BS as a way of scaring the drivers into ejecting the card.
I leave mine in as it keeps it safe. We had a post on here recently about a driver who had his card stolen when he was parked in Spain and his cab was broken into when the card wasn’t in the unit. My card went in on Tuesday afternoon when I started work and it has been in ever since, it will come out when I get back to the yard and clock off. At the end of a shift it’s just a couple of button presses to select rest mode and enter the end country, same at the start. No waiting for the card to eject or be ready in the morning.
It seems from reading this thread that Wincanton trainers will have to go on the trumpet list. The cards must hold a MINIMUM of 28 days but as with all minimums the maximum will be more. My previous card, before I changed address, had many months on it at any given time. Just before I exchanged it I checked and at that time there was 11.5 months on it and that was a card that was generally used 5 or 6 days a week.
Coffeeholic:
It could be Maritime want the cards ejected as their drivers are not entering the end country when they finish their shift but are prompted to do so when they eject the card.
We had a memo to remove cards for that very reason.
I leave the digi-card in the vehicle unit when am away from base but always remove it when finishing a shift at base,recently did 3 weeks away from base on european work and left driver card in the vehicle unit for the whole trip manually selecting relevent end country and rest mode when finishing a shift and then selecting relevent begin country and other work mode when finishing a daily/weekly rest period.
It looks good when you get stopped for a check,police/enforcement officer has continuous record of your activities as long as you remember to select correct mode setting and begin/end country,but its not so good if you have to move vehicle on a rest period-recently when parked near valencia i had a garage owner banging on cab door wanting me to move vehicle when i had had 8 hours rest claiming i was parked too near his fuel pumps,he moaned and threatened to phone police but i just stayed where i was until i had had my 9 hours off-better than large fine!
If you do have to move vehicle during rest period its better to do with driver card removed-it will still be recorded as driving without a card in vehicle unit but will not go on driver card.
If you do have to move vehicle during rest period its better to do with driver card removed-it will still be recorded as driving without a card in vehicle unit but will not go on driver card.
Unfortunately you are so wrong with that statement. Nothing will arouse the suspicion of the nice man from VOSA more than seeing a card that is ejected from a VU during a rest period and then reinserted. The problem is that their analysis software is quite capable of downloading both card and VU data files and comparing the results. Guess how friendly they will be when they notice that in the short time that your card was not in the VU the VU data shows the vehicle moved
Probably far better to leave the card in and after the ‘interruption’ return the mode to rest then take a printout and write on printout the reason for the interruption. In my book that is far better than the words; False Record.
geebee45:
Probably far better to leave the card in and after the ‘interruption’ return the mode to rest then take a printout and write on printout the reason for the interruption. In my book that is far better than the words; False Record.
False record would have to go with some sort of proof though, and proof a vehicle has moved does not automatically mean it was the last man out and first man back in the vehicle , all things being equal of course .
if an offence has been commited, how far back can this information be taken from the card and used? I believe the card will take up to 280 days of info?
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