Digi card & the construction industry

UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS THE UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUM (INTERACTIVE)
1

Yes,yet another digi card thread,but please be patient,and read on…

Friend of mine is a manager for a well known construction company.They have just recently got some new 5 tonne tippers,which are fitted with digi tachos,and I’m assuming,speed limiters.

Now,he has put a query to me,that I’m hoping my fellow TN members can answer.

Let’s say that 2 drivers are available for this vehicle,during a 24 hour period,and they leave the yard,to go to a site some miles away,with driver 1 driving,usung his digi card.They arrive at site,and driver 1 continues driving,albeit at a speed of,say 5 miles an hour between cats eye replacement,and the crew commence work.During the course of the day,the vehicle is constantly moving,replacing these cats eyes,and there will obviously come a point,where driver 1 will have to have a break,but this is where the problem starts.

Because of the nature of the work,the vehicle MUST keep moving,in order to keep replacing the cats eyes,but under the rules,driver 1 must either have a 45,or a break under the 6 hour rule.

How can they get the vehicle to keep moving?

Can driver 2 put his card in,and keep the vehicle moving,thereby giving driver 1 his legal break,or will they have to stop the vehicle,and hold the job up until the required breaks are taken?

I know it all seems complicated,but it’s even more confusing for his workers.

Ken.

2

Assuming that the drivers are swapping over, they also swap cards as well. I believe that, even though the tacho head units have two card slots, they will always record “driving” time to the card in slot 1, just like paper tachos.

They’ll have to stop the trucks for a minute or two whilst the cards get swapped over, but then I expect the truck would stop anyway (since swapping drivers is a bit difficult without stopping the truck…)

3

If driver one does actually take a break while driver 2 is driving, then his card will be in slot 2, as Mr F said you have to swap the cards so the driver’s card is in slot 1. While his card is in slot 2 and the vehicle is moving it won’t record rest, it defaults to POA, and VOSA have stated they will assume the first 45 minutes of POA recorded in slot 2 for double manning operations will be assumed to be break but it may be best to make a written entry on a printout to confirm his actual break period.

If he doesn’t actually take a break then he will have to work out his own way. :wink: :stuck_out_tongue: :smiley:

4

Isn’t there an exemption for road maintenance work? I remember someone who used to drive a 17 ton truck without the need of an HGV licence because it was used for road maintenance, but that was a few years back so maybe it’s been altered

5

DoYouMeanMe?:
Isn’t there an exemption for road maintenance work? I remember someone who used to drive a 17 ton truck without the need of an HGV licence because it was used for road maintenance, but that was a few years back so maybe it’s been altered

There is a derogation for vehicles involved in road maintenance, page 12, but I assumed as they were asking about tachos it doesn’t apply to them.

6

MrFlibble:
Assuming that the drivers are swapping over, they also swap cards as well.

Why are they/do they need to, swap cards. My understanding is that, unlike anologue devices, where there was a need to move a chart from position 2 to position 1, digital devices, with two cards inserted, default to Driving (when the vehicle is moving) for any card ‘other than one set to an alternative function’.

If that is not the case, then there has been a serious oversight in the design spec.

7

Krankee:
Why are they/do they need to, swap cards. My understanding is that, unlike anologue devices, where there was a need to move a chart from position 2 to position 1, digital devices, with two cards inserted, default to Driving (when the vehicle is moving) for any card ‘other than one set to an alternative function’.

If that is not the case, then there has been a serious oversight in the design spec.

I don’t know if you’re right or not but I agree with your last comment. It seems really quite silly that in a purely electronic unit you have to faff about swapping cards when all you need is either some kind of “driver change switch” on the front or some kind of automatic function as you describe above whereby if both cards are in and one is set to break and the other set to other work then it automatically puts the driving on the other work card.

It’s also a ridiculous hangover from the “cd player” style of tacho if it won’t let you record a break whilst moving whilst double manned as afaik you’ve been allowed to in the rules for donkeys years.

Paul

8

At the speed they’re moving I’m assuming the 6 hour rule will apply first.

Will Driver 2 have already had a break during this 6 hours or will he have been working?

One allows the vehicle to keep moving … one doesn’t.

Stan

9

Krankee:

MrFlibble:
Assuming that the drivers are swapping over, they also swap cards as well.

Why are they/do they need to, swap cards.

Erm, “because they do”.

Krankee:
My understanding is that, unlike anologue devices, where there was a need to move a chart from position 2 to position 1, digital devices, with two cards inserted, default to Driving (when the vehicle is moving) for any card ‘other than one set to an alternative function’.

Then I believe your understanding is wrong. I’m sure I’ve read that digital tachos still only record driving to “Driver 1”.

I also assumed that the digital tachos would put an end to all the card shuffling, but I’m pretty sure it doesn’t.

Yes, it’s dumb, stupid and idiotic. Don’t blame me, I didn’t write the spec.

Krankee:
If that is not the case, then there has been a serious oversight in the design spec.

I refer the honorable gentleman to the response I gave earlier. :wink:

10

www.transportoffice.gov.uk :

How do I use my card?

There will be 2 slots on the front of the vehicle unit - driver 1 and driver 2. You place your card in slot 1 if you are single manned and there it stays until the end of the day. When double manned the situation is as per analogue units. The person driving places their card in slot 1 and the 2nd man in slot 2. When you change driving the cards are swapped over. The system will recognise the difference as you will have to select the CREW option for double manned vehicles.

11

hello to everybody,first post on the site so hopefully things will go ok, “doyoumeanme” is spot on with his post ,cats eye fixing wagons are classed as “road maintenance vehicles”, and are excempt from tachos also no HGV licence is needed,they can still run on red diesel,and no annual test is required, thats all we need to do is keep the wagons in a roadworthy condition,our company insists on having 6 weekly checks done,so the wagons inspected, we ve also got road marking trucks that are classed the same, weve got a 07 plate DAF CF75 6 wheeler, we call it “the ark” because its37 feet long in total,and belive it or not you could put a 18 year old in the seat.so you cats eye boys keep em digi cards in your wallet and get em studs down !! MAD I KNOW IT IS,BUT THATS THE WAY IT IS, hope this helps gary

12

they can still run on red diesel,

I believe that this information is now incorrect,as a recent change in the law,forbids construction vehicles that also drive on the highway,from running on red diesel in future.

Taken from Commercial Motor,24th January 2008,page 30:

Rebated fuel.The vehicles permitted to use rebated fuel,will change on 1st April 2008.Road construction vehicles will no longer be an exempted category,but instead two new categories of tar sprayers and road surfacing vehicles will be added.

However,we digress here,because the original thread is about digi cards,and their effect on construction vehicles,but what I will say,is that all replies on here,will be shown to my friend in question.

Finally,their vehicle is not used exclusively on cats eye fixing,it is also used elsewhere,hence the original question about digi cards.

Ken.

13

Swapping digi cards over at driver change takes 6 minutes and is a [zb] pain in the arse. Which IDIOT designed these things…

If it needs stars it’s not allowed. Go read the rules. L, :wink:

14

“Quinny” i assumed the workers were using a purpose built cats eye wagon called a milling machine,that drills holes in the road for the castings but as you say its also used for other purposes,i take its a normal flatbed/dropside truck,with the equipment on the back ,then the tacho rules would apply my misunderstanding. as for the red diesel issue at present we are still excempt,you are correct in saying the laws are changing on the 1 april,but that is still 2 months away,the company is in discussion with vosa to clarify if our “cats eye truck” and “road marking trucks” are classed as road surfacing vehicles, we are still waiting for vosa to get back to us, i will let you know what the outcome is. gary

15

Coffeeholic.

Sorry, didn’t explain myself very well. I meant to add that as they don’t need an HGV licence, they wouldn’t be able to get a card so for that reason it would be a reasonable assumption (Yes I know that’s dangerous) that you wouldn’t need to use one.