DoYouMeanMe?:
So was the whole purpose of the digi card to stop drivers using a tacho as evidence that they didn’t do a certain crime?
I was told that you cannot use a tachograph as evidence for speeding …
think about it…
On monday the 11/10/99 you travel down the A12345 and get flashed by a camera
So tuesday your doing the exact same run but just happen to accidentaly forget to put the date on the chart and this time you watch your speed on the A12345 and do not get flashed
So then you put mondays date on the chart and use that as your evidence in court that you were a good boy on the monday and the camera was wery wery nawty
but you say “ah but now your a chart missing”
Not if you change mondays chart to tuesdays date (lets face it we’ve all written 11/10/99 and then written over the 1 with a 2 when we’ve suddenly realised its the 12th)
So for this reason you cannot use it in your defense but fortunately it cannot be used to prosecute you either (for speeding that is)
This is how it was explained to me if im wrong one of the law guru’s will be along shortly to shoot me down and ■■■■ on my bonfire…
You say that the tacho can’t be used to prosecute you for speeding so i just wondered how that is different for when VOSA inspect you charts and look into it further and notice you speed for the last 30 minutes of your journey (e.g. 56) back to base every day when infact their is no way legally possible you could reach 56 mph - i have heard they can nail you for it?!!!
They try.
Everytime they do it gets chucked out by the judge.
But they still keep trying.
Bless.
DoYouMeanMe?:
So was the whole purpose of the digi card to stop drivers using a tacho as evidence that they didn’t do a certain crime?
I was told that you cannot use a tachograph as evidence for speeding …
think about it…
On monday the 11/10/99 you travel down the A12345 and get flashed by a camera
So tuesday your doing the exact same run but just happen to accidentaly forget to put the date on the chart and this time you watch your speed on the A12345 and do not get flashed
So then you put mondays date on the chart and use that as your evidence in court that you were a good boy on the monday and the camera was wery wery nawty
but you say “ah but now your a chart missing”
Not if you change mondays chart to tuesdays date (lets face it we’ve all written 11/10/99 and then written over the 1 with a 2 when we’ve suddenly realised its the 12th)
So for this reason you cannot use it in your defense but fortunately it cannot be used to prosecute you either (for speeding that is)
This is how it was explained to me if im wrong one of the law guru’s will be along shortly to shoot me down and ■■■■ on my bonfire…
You say that the tacho can’t be used to prosecute you for speeding so i just wondered how that is different for when VOSA inspect you charts and look into it further and notice you speed for the last 30 minutes of your journey (e.g. 56) back to base every day when infact their is no way legally possible you could reach 56 mph - i have heard they can nail you for it?!!!
They try.
Everytime they do it gets chucked out by the judge.
But they still keep trying.
Bless.
i think they must have better look going after companies.
i heard from various people that a local firm in wisbeach was fined something like £100,000 because every single driver was found to be speeding leaving and returing to base.
I got pulled by VOSA and the traffic police, they saw my cards, noted all started in Cairnryan or finished in Cairnryan said the first 100 and last 100 miles of these journey i was supposed to be doing 40mph.
VOSA never mentioned it, but the traffic cop said he was going to do me with speeding. He asked me about it, i never said anything.
He then said he was going to go away write me a ticket for speeding since i had been going flat out everyday on the tachograph. I said ok, he said i am to write your ticket now, but if you have anything to explain why you were speeding come tell me and i may change my mind. I never bothered just sat there and surprise surprise no speeding ticket.
The digital tachograph ive heard it was designed many years ago, supposedly they have to get all the specs right and approved etc… and it takes years. By the time the digital tachograph came out, it was badly out of date. In a lecture at college doing computing it was mentioned the encryption used is based on some EU standard isnt that great either and a proffiecent programmer or hacker could rip it apart.
Heard a rumour as well next generation possibly involve GPS.
I’m sure you can get a speed trace from the head unit on a digi tacho. It’s in the user manual about the various printouts that you can get. But it might be for only the last 24hrs.
As for using it as evidence in court? Well I beleive other have tried with analouge tachos, but not with much success. I think the only time I’ve heard of a driver being succesfull is when they’ve been charged with driving at something like 70mph. then they produce a weight of evidence including, tacho’s showing he truck never exceeds that speed, info on speed limiters and expert witness stating that.
tim_smith:
Anyone who has actually got the VU data and needs it analysing can visit me at www.blatant_advert.com and send me details of your requirements. Page 3. Tim Smith
Not sure I would be trusting my tacho details to someone who can’t understand simple rules.
Well that was a genuine offer to help which is now withdrawn. The very best of luck to you.
Sorry for the delay. For some reason I have not been able to access this site for months, just get the error message and assumed it was gone.
Anyway, regarding using a tacho for defence/prosecution, as with everything, it depends who is using it. If you remember back to the Abbey Hill transporter days I can assure you they (the police and vosa) used the Tacho’s to convict the drivers.
It was pointed out at the trial, that when tachographs were introduced it was stated by the Ministry of Transport, that they would never be used as a ‘stand alone’ evidence to prosecute. The judge replied, “That was then, this is now, times change”, and the whole lot of them were done. If my memory serves me right, it was about 28 of them.
Laws of the land don’t apply to drivers, you should know that. It is supposed to be against the law to be punished for the same crime twice, yet we get fined and points from the courts and then the crap from Vosa where you are spoken to like a bloody 5 yr old by some geriatric old git who retired from the forces straight into a nice little earner ( most likely for keeping quiet about someones previous liaison with the regimental goat, who then made it big in politics) and knows more about Botswanian goat-herding than he does about the reality of trucking.
As stated by other members, the actual tacho holds speed information for 24 hours.
If you suspect there may be a query or you noticed a camera flash you, you can request that your transport manager download the data within 24 HOURS or that data will be lost.
Where I work if a driver thinks there may be a speed dispute, the vehicle is taken out of service until the tacho head is downloaded with a “dongle”. Every TM or fleet desk should have one of these and be competent in using it.
Kenny1975:
He asked me about it, i never said anything.
Good advice there Ken. Best thing to do in any situation involving the Police or VOSA etc IS SAY NOTHING! A lot of drivers will talk themselves into trouble. Don’t be arrogant or cheeky. Just sit there and stay quiet.
I read in Truck and Driver magazine a piece written by solicitor from Ford & Warren that a tachograph trace cannot be used to prosecute for speeding.
Kenny1975:
He asked me about it, i never said anything.
Good advice there Ken. Best thing to do in any situation involving the Police or VOSA etc IS SAY NOTHING! A lot of drivers will talk themselves into trouble. Don’t be arrogant or cheeky. Just sit there and stay quiet.
I read in Truck and Driver magazine a piece written by solicitor from Ford & Warren that a tachograph trace cannot be used to prosecute for speeding.
Could somebody like macdoog/geebee45 or Shrek (they are just the ones i know of, bound to be other “enforcement” people reading this) clear this up, as i’ve heard rumours that it can, and other say it cant - not that i speed mind you just would be interesting to know what is myth and what isn’t
Kenny1975:
He asked me about it, i never said anything.
Good advice there Ken. Best thing to do in any situation involving the Police or VOSA etc IS SAY NOTHING! A lot of drivers will talk themselves into trouble. Don’t be arrogant or cheeky. Just sit there and stay quiet.
I read in Truck and Driver magazine a piece written by solicitor from Ford & Warren that a tachograph trace cannot be used to prosecute for speeding.
Could somebody like macdoog/geebee45 or Shrek (they are just the ones i know of, bound to be other “enforcement” people reading this) clear this up, as i’ve heard rumours that it can, and other say it cant - not that i speed mind you just would be interesting to know what is myth and what isn’t
many thanks
Hi I would say no you can not be prosecuted for speeding as the print out is not an accurate speed, if you look at the example of a the print out in the post it give you a range of 10 kpm and the length of time the speed was done for as you can see it does not show the true speed,
the print out is for the truck and not the driver.
your digital tacho card does not record speed only the head unit does and only for 24 hours
There is a very important point that is worth bearing in mind. Unlike a car driving license, which is classed as a “right”, an LGV licence is classed as a “privilage” and can be suspended/revoked at any
time If there is repeated evidence of speeding such as isotrak, dynopak, roadside cameras etc.
Enforcement officers can obtain evidence from companies, I know of one such case at the moment which I am not at liberty to discuss, it is becoming a big brother state to such a degree that the full effects will not be felt until it is too late.
Currently in Court a Tachograph Record Sheet will not be used as the only evidence of speeding. The sheet gives; time, date (assuming the centrefields are completed correctly and the clock is set properly) and speed (subject to the ‘in use’ tolerance), however, the place that the vehicle was doing the recorded speed is not provided by the speed trace. In cases of serious collisions then a forensic analysis of the chart may be carried out and a lot of information deduced, but it’s expensive and very time consuming and usually reserved for ‘death by dangerous driving,’ ‘manslaughter,’ etc. Records may well be used to indicate to a Court whether a vehicle was braking or accelerating just prior to an incident. They may also be used to show an overall impression of how a driver has been driving prior to a particular incident.
In Public Inquiry (before a Traffic Commissioner) the rules of evidence are different from in a Court. Drivers have had their HGV / PSV licence entitlement suspended or revoked on tacho evidence alone. An example would be a remote operating centre surrounded by single carriageway roads, with the nearest motorway being some twenty miles away. Clearly, if the speed recorded by the instrument exceeds 60 km/h in the first 20 miles then the driver of a vehicle with a maximum authorised mass exceeding 7.5 tonnes has been breaking the law. One of the obligations that an Operator undertakes before getting a licence is that they will ensure that vehicles used on that licence will not exceed the relevant speed limit, that is why the case may be taken to PI. Some years ago there were allegations that a hauliers vehicles were speeding through a village in North Notts. I checked the charts and could find no evidence of drivers doing anything other than the speed limit. That didn’t stop the complainant banging on about the ‘speeding’ for ages afterwards. Just remember that in a car, a truck travelling towards the car at 40 mph on a narrow road looks like it is going a lot faster.
Digital tachographs store the speed in the Vehicle Unit (VU) for the last 24 hours of vehicle movement after that time the record is overwritten. Speed data is stored by the second and recorded in whole kilometers per hour. Speed data is not stored on driver cards, apart from records of ‘overspeeds.’
and this time you watch your speed on the A12345 and do not get flashed
