Conor was spot on, simply do a print out or two and write on the back the reason for the problem, hand one in as required (i believe) after 28 days but keep the other just in case.
Because of a motorway blow out with a weird tyre size i ended up doing an 18 hour day on tachograph, got pulled the following week, explained the overhours as i handed the tachos over (explanation on the back of the long one) and VOSA were fine about it.
So long as you don’t take the P and don’t ever think VOSA are idiots, couldn’t be further from the truth, they are fair if you are fair, thats been my experience anyway.
Juddian:
Conor was spot on, simply do a print out or two and write on the back the reason for the problem, hand one in as required (i believe) after 28 days but keep the other just in case.
If you are doing two printouts you can hand one in straight away and keep the other with you.
AlexWignall:
Haha, I’m really out of my comfort zone now.
In the paragraph titled ‘Unforseen Events’ in the handbook it states that a driver may depart from the rules, nothing about making good any lost rest time.
Just checked the wording on Article 12 in 561/2006 and it says nothing about lost rest time there either.
Do either of those documents say that as a result of the unforeseen delay you can take less rest than normal?
AlexWignall:
Haha, I’m really out of my comfort zone now.
In the paragraph titled ‘Unforseen Events’ in the handbook it states that a driver may depart from the rules, nothing about making good any lost rest time.
Just checked the wording on Article 12 in 561/2006 and it says nothing about lost rest time there either.
Do either of those documents say that as a result of the unforeseen delay you can take less rest than normal?
There’s your answer then.
I’m sorry Coffee but now that I had a better chance to read Article 12. It states that a driver may depart from Articles 6 to 9 in the case of an unforseen event.
Article 8 (as I’m sure you know) refers to Daily and Weekly rest. That reads to me that a driver may depart from the Daily rest rules if Article 12 is invoked.
So yes, I do think it says that I might take less rest than is legally required.
Article 12 makes it clear that the deviation from the rules should be only what’s necessary to reach a suitable stopping place, having less than the required daily rest would be departing from articles 6 to 9 way beyond what’s required to ensure the “safety of persons”, vehicle or load.
Provided that road safety is not thereby jeopardised and to
enable the vehicle to reach a suitable stopping place, the driver
may depart from Articles 6 to 9 to the extent necessary to
ensure the safety of persons, of the vehicle or its load. The
driver shall indicate the reason for such departure manually on
the record sheet of the recording equipment or on a printout
from the recording equipment or in the duty roster, at the
latest on arrival at the suitable stopping place.
tachograph:
Article 12 makes it clear that the deviation from the rules should be only what’s necessary to reach a suitable stopping place, having less than the required daily rest would be departing from articles 6 to 9 way beyond what’s required to ensure the “safety of persons”, vehicle or load.
Provided that road safety is not thereby jeopardised and to
enable the vehicle to reach a suitable stopping place, the driver
may depart from Articles 6 to 9 to the extent necessary to
ensure the safety of persons, of the vehicle or its load. The
driver shall indicate the reason for such departure manually on
the record sheet of the recording equipment or on a printout
from the recording equipment or in the duty roster, at the
latest on arrival at the suitable stopping place.
AlexWignall:
Haha, I’m really out of my comfort zone now.
In the paragraph titled ‘Unforseen Events’ in the handbook it states that a driver may depart from the rules, nothing about making good any lost rest time.
Just checked the wording on Article 12 in 561/2006 and it says nothing about lost rest time there either.
Do either of those documenst say that as a result of the unforeseen delay you can take less rest than normal?
There’s your answer then.
I’m sorry Coffee but now that I had a better chance to read Article 12. It states that a driver may depart from Articles 6 to 9 in the case of an unforseen event.
Your doing what is commonly known in these parts as ‘A ROG’, you’re not reading all of Article 12.
Tachograph has highlighted the crucial bit above. You can go over driving hours or beyond the point where all the daily rest won’t comply with the normal rest requirements to ensure the safety of the vehicle, the driver or it’s load as far as the first available stopping place. but it doesn’t allow you to then take less rest.
Article 12 gives a derogation, in the event of an unforeseen event, from:
The 4.5-hour driving limit.
The 9 or 10-hour driving limit, if the delay causes him to exceed them at that point.
The 56 or 90-hour driving limit, , if the delay causes him to exceed them at that point.
The 144 hours between the end of his previous weekly rest and the start of his next, if the delay causes him to exceed it at that point.
The requirement for the rest to be completed within 24 hours from starting work after your last rest period.
Those things would all be for the safety reasons and are limited to reaching the first suitable stopping place. Following that by taking less rest than legally required would be contra to the safety requirement of Article 12…
My point is, that if you have exceeded your 15 hour duty limit thanks to an Article 12 type incident. You have failed to take the minimum rest that day.
No amount of rest the following day will legally compensate. Although morally and physically it would.
Article 12 allows a departure from that rule for the reasons you fellas have all stated above (which the OPs misjudged traffic and wrong turning to a low bridge might not be included although probably forgiven).
I would of thought comparing me to ROG is a bit harsh on ROG but I’m afraid nothing that either of you has posted has convinced me that I’m wrong.
AlexWignall:
My point is, that if you have exceeded your 15 hour duty limit thanks to an Article 12 type incident. You have failed to take the minimum rest that day.
No I don’t agree, in those circumstances you’ve failed to have the daily rest period within the 24 hour period, article 12 allows for this if there is a genuine reason, however if you don’t have the 9 or 11 hours rest then you’ve failed to have the required daily rest period.
Article 12 allows you to have the daily rest period late if there are unforeseen circumstances but no-where in article 12 does it suggest that you can simply miss out the daily rest period altogether.
AlexWignall:
My point is, that if you have exceeded your 15 hour duty limit thanks to an Article 12 type incident. You have failed to take the minimum rest that day.
No I don’t agree, in those circumstances you’ve failed to have the daily rest period within the 24 hour period, article 12 allows for this if there is a genuine reason, however if you don’t have the 9 or 11 hours rest then you’ve failed to have the required daily rest period.
Article 12 allows you to have the daily rest period late if there are unforeseen circumstances but no-where in article 12 does it suggest that you can simply miss out the daily rest period altogether.
Ok, perhaps if I give another example?
Ten hours into a working shift a driver is delayed by a huge RTC for five hours. The truck is stationary and the engine is off and the driver selects the break mode.
When the RTC is cleared it takes forty five minutes to find suitable safe parking.
Would that driver still have to take nine hours rest? Or even eleven hours rest if all reduced rests have been taken that week?
On a personal note, I hope you can tell from my previous posts on TNUK that I’m not trying to be a smartarse. I really am intrested in what you ‘legal eagles’ have got to say.
AlexWignall:
Ok, perhaps if I give another example?Ten hours into a working shift a driver is delayed by a huge RTC for five hours.
The truck is stationary and the engine is off and the driver selects the break mode.
15 hours done so the truck does not move from that bay - I dount if it is unsafe to be parked on the bay!!
The way to get around that would be to inform them that you need to move in 4 hours or that is what will happen and their bay will be blocked for another 9 hours
3+ hours on break/rest in one go means that having a further 9 hours off counts as a full daily rest
AlexWignall:
My point is, that if you have exceeded your 15 hour duty limit thanks to an Article 12 type incident. You have failed to take the minimum rest that day.
No I don’t agree, in those circumstances you’ve failed to have the daily rest period within the 24 hour period, article 12 allows for this if there is a genuine reason, however if you don’t have the 9 or 11 hours rest then you’ve failed to have the required daily rest period.
Article 12 allows you to have the daily rest period late if there are unforeseen circumstances but no-where in article 12 does it suggest that you can simply miss out the daily rest period altogether.
Ok, perhaps if I give another example?
Ten hours into a working shift a driver is delayed by a huge RTC for five hours. The truck is stationary and the engine is off and the driver selects the break mode.
When the RTC is cleared it takes forty five minutes to find suitable safe parking.
Would that driver still have to take nine hours rest? Or even eleven hours rest if all reduced rests have been taken that week?
On a personal note, I hope you can tell from my previous posts on TNUK that I’m not trying to be a smartarse. I really am intrested in what you ‘legal eagles’ have got to say.
W
He could take 9 hours off because you said he had it on break for 5 hours so that would become a split rest which would count as 11 hours.
I can answer all these queries with one simple document.
Exceptional deviation from minimum rest and maximum driving limits in order to find a suitable stopping place.
Article: 12 of Regulation (EC) No 561/2006
Approach to be followed: Article 12 contains provisions that permit a driver to depart from the minimum rest requirements and maximum driving times contained in Articles 6 to 9 in order to find a suitable stopping place. This article does not authorize a driver to derogate from the Regulation for reasons known before the journey commenced. It is designed to enable drivers to deal with cases where it unexpectedly becomes impossible to comply with the Regulation during the course of the journey, that is in situations of abnormal difficulties, independent of the will of the driver and apparently unavoidable that may not be anticipated, even if all due care is taken. The derogation has also the function of ensuring the safety of persons, of the vehicle and of its load and the requirement that road safety must in any event be taken into account.
Three parties have certain obligations in relation to such situations:
A transport undertaking must plan carefully a driver’s safe trip foreseeing, for instance, regular traffic jams, weather conditions and access to adequate parking places, that is, it must organize work in such a way that drivers are able to comply with the Regulation and should take into account the requirements of shippers and insurance companies concerning safe parking are satisfied.
A driver must rigorously stick to the rules and not deviate from driving time limits unless
exceptional circumstances occur unexpectedly and it becomes impossible to comply with the Regulation without endangering road safety, the safety of persons, the vehicle or its load. If a driver decides that it is necessary to derogate from the Regulation and that this will not jeopardise road safety he/she must indicate the nature and reason for derogation manually (in any Community language, on the record sheet or on the print out from the recording equipment or on the duty roster) as soon as he/she stops.
An enforcer must apply professional discretion when controlling a driver and assessing whether the departure from driving limits is justified.
When assessing the legitimacy of the deviation on the basis of Article 12 all circumstances must be examined carefully by an enforcer including:
(a) a history of driver’s driving records to establish the pattern of driver’s performance and verify whether the driver normally complies with driving and rest time rules, and that the deviation is exceptional;
(b) the deviation from driving time limits must not be a regular occurrence and must be caused by exceptional circumstances such as: major traffic accidents, extreme weather conditions, road diversions, no place at the parking area, etc. (This list of possible exceptional circumstances is only indicative. The principle for assessment is that the motive of possible deviation from driving limits must not be known or even possible to foresee beforehand);
(c) daily and weekly driving limits should be respected, hence the driver should not have any ‘time gains’ by exceeding driving limit in search of a parking place;
(d) the deviation from the driving time rules must not lead to a reduction of the required breaks, daily and weekly rest.
robinhood_1984:
Yet another example of stress and worry being heaped on to a driver, not by his job or so called long hours but by the very rules that are supposed in theory to protect us all (yeah right). What a ridiculous situation the UK and Europe is in when ordinary people are scared to extremes by such trivial nonsense.
No wonder drivers in the UK complain of stress and fatigue. Driving a truck should be so simple, like walking from one end of a football pitch to the other, yet its being made so needlessly complicated by endless legislation from all directions so that simple stroll turns in to something along the lines of covering the same distance but by doing star jumps and backward flips. What a joke. I feel sorry for people coming in to the industry now who go home in an evening or the end of the week so scared they dont know if they’ll have a job to go back to because they commited a poxy miniscule offence. Maybe the OP should be transported to the colonies or be publically hanged in Tyburn.
FFS Why does driving a truck from A to B have to be so complicated?
How does the driver in my example (who has spent five hours stuck on the Motorway behind a road traffic collision) make good his legally required eleven hour rest?
AlexWignall:
Ok Wheel Nut, according to your document.
How does the driver in my example (who has spent five hours stuck on the Motorway behind a road traffic collision) make good his legally required eleven hour rest?
W
By taking his 11 hours rest when he reaches the parking place, after he has used Article 12 and written an explanation as to why he cannot take the rest within the normally required 24-hour period.
The driver would be hard pushed to claim a split daily rest in this scenario because although the time on the motorway can be a break he isn’t really free to dispose of his time as he wishes, he can hardly wander away and leave the vehicle for instance, so it couldn’t really be counted as rest. He would probably get away with it and it would be a harsh prosecution but strictly speaking those 5 hours would only be break and not rest.
Not every period of at least 3 hours on break during a shift can automatically be counted as rest, the circumstances have to meet the normal rest requirements. For instance at an RDC if the driver was told he must remain in his cab at all times and he was there for 3 hours that would be break but not rest because he cannot dispose of his time as he wishes. However, that is the strictly legal side which of course is different to the real world way of working.
AlexWignall:
Ok Wheel Nut, according to your document.
How does the driver in my example (who has spent five hours stuck on the Motorway behind a road traffic collision) make good his legally required eleven hour rest?
W
You have worked 10 hours and sat on your arris for 5 hours, you then drive a further 45 minutes to a parking area. You are quite within your rights to invoke article 12 but from the time of parking up you must then take an unbroken 9 hour break, regardless of how many reduced breaks you have used, because you are not taking a reduced break, you are taking an extended split break. Normally taken as a 3 hour and a 9 hour break which is a 12hour extended break.
You are making hard work out of this for yourself. Forget the first day, ■■■■ happens, the road was closed for 5 hours. That will be well documented by HATO, the Police and your Employer. The two sentences I highlighted cover this scenario quite well, and it was a court case that you can refer back to if a control deems you a criminal.
My point is, that if you have exceeded your 15 hour duty limit thanks to an Article 12 type incident. You have failed to take the minimum rest that day.
No amount of rest the following day will legally compensate. Although morally and physically it would.
I’ve realised why you are confused about this. You keep talking in terms of exceeding your 15 hour duty limit but nowhere in the regulations is there a mention of a duty limit. The maximum duty we can do is only worked out by the daily rest requirements, 24-11=13 or 24-9=15.
Because you are thinking in this way you are working on the principle that Article 12 allows you to exceed the 15 hour duty limit but it doesn’t because there is no duty limit laid down in the regulations. What Article 12 does do is allow you a derogation from the requirement for the daily rest to fall within the 24-hour period. The derogation cannot be applied to something that doesn’t even appear in the regulations, duty time, so in that situation can only be applied to something that is defined in the regulations, daily rest within 24-hours.
