Help! Running a low mileage (150k) Scania P230 recently spotted diesel in the coolant.
New mechanic (the old very reliable one not being available) initially quoted £2k and then increased to between £6k and £10k.
Long chat on the phone and in summary he says O rings on the injectors need replacing (sounds reasonable) but then went on and said that 2005/2006 P230’s were known for having porous heads - which I’d never heard before and hadn’t discovered on any forum anywhere.
Three queries:
(a) Porous heads? any truth in this?
(b) Sleeve replacement Cost? What should the reasonable independent mechanic cost be for replacing the sleeves, rings etc plus draining the cooling system and changing all the coolant hoses which will otherwise perish with the contamination.
(c) Mechanic Any recommendations for a good independent mechanic in the Reading/Henley on Thames area?
6k to 10k?! you’d prob get an identical truck for not much more. I’d be shopping breakers for a decent engine with warranty. These motors rarely go like that so although thats good it may mean they take a bit of finding. Crashed write off would be the one, preferably with sensible miles on it.
Mike21:
(a) Porous heads? any truth in this?
(b) Sleeve replacement Cost? What should the reasonable independent mechanic cost be for replacing the sleeves, rings etc plus draining the cooling system and changing all the coolant hoses which will otherwise perish with the contamination.
Going by b do you mean porous liners ?.
In which case are you confusing diesel with oil mixing with the coolant.
Mike21:
(a) Porous heads? any truth in this?
(b) Sleeve replacement Cost? What should the reasonable independent mechanic cost be for replacing the sleeves, rings etc plus draining the cooling system and changing all the coolant hoses which will otherwise perish with the contamination.
Going by b do you mean porous liners ?.
In which case are you confusing diesel with oil mixing with the coolant.
Thanks - no he was quite specific about the heads being porous which I’d never head of before on any vehicle. CH gaskets yes and warping but porous?? I made a note as we were going through it of what he said/. as near as I could type it’s word for word what he said: It’s a 5 cyl head They do go a bit porous and weak and that’s another problem Apparently around that age the heads started to corrode themselves Without taking the head off to inspect, we can’t tell (if they’re porous). it’s the only way to confirm. if they are then need to get re-furbed or re-conditioned heads Trying to explain If they are all corroded and was not just the sleeve Could be 5 re-con heads which would be an expensive amount of money Could be £6k-£10k Would expect the heads to be £600 - £700 each without gaskets, rings or seals Fingers crossed then we get lucky and it’s just the sleeves Would just be taking the sleeves and the seals out and replacing That would be the best case scenario Until the head has come off that is where we will find
So that’s the explanation he gave - not supported anywhere else by anything I’ve read or heard. I asked him to take the head off and let me know and he’s gone a little quiet. I’m a trusting soul normally but I do take the time to get informed about things and to ask for advice - I wonder whether this was a complete try on…
wide-load85:
6k to 10k?! you’d prob get an identical truck for not much more. I’d be shopping breakers for a decent engine with warranty. These motors rarely go like that so although thats good it may mean they take a bit of finding. Crashed write off would be the one, preferably with sensible miles on it.
thank you - yes that occurred to me and I’d been looking in the ads for similar aged trucks. Had also Googled for replacement engines but not taken that any further. Certainly it wasn’t suggested/proposed.
having a look inside any of the water filled ancillaries [thermo housing /water pump etc will tell you if the engine inside is corroded to hell. itll have that white fur on it if its had hard water with no antifreeze .
Mike21:
(a) Porous heads? any truth in this?
(b) Sleeve replacement Cost? What should the reasonable independent mechanic cost be for replacing the sleeves, rings etc plus draining the cooling system and changing all the coolant hoses which will otherwise perish with the contamination.
Going by b do you mean porous liners ?.
In which case are you confusing diesel with oil mixing with the coolant.
Thanks - no he was quite specific about the heads being porous which I’d never head of before on any vehicle. CH gaskets yes and warping but porous?? I made a note as we were going through it of what he said/. as near as I could type it’s word for word what he said: It’s a 5 cyl head They do go a bit porous and weak and that’s another problem Apparently around that age the heads started to corrode themselves Without taking the head off to inspect, we can’t tell (if they’re porous). it’s the only way to confirm. if they are then need to get re-furbed or re-conditioned heads Trying to explain If they are all corroded and was not just the sleeve Could be 5 re-con heads which would be an expensive amount of money Could be £6k-£10k Would expect the heads to be £600 - £700 each without gaskets, rings or seals Fingers crossed then we get lucky and it’s just the sleeves Would just be taking the sleeves and the seals out and replacing That would be the best case scenario Until the head has come off that is where we will find
So that’s the explanation he gave - not supported anywhere else by anything I’ve read or heard. I asked him to take the head off and let me know and he’s gone a little quiet. I’m a trusting soul normally but I do take the time to get informed about things and to ask for advice - I wonder whether this was a complete try on….
I think this is more likely that he doesn’t want the job so has tried to price himself out of contention. This would probably be because he hasn’t got access to the necessary special tools to renew the injector sleeves and O rings. He certainly will not be able to test the heads for porosity himself so will be relying on a third party. The way out of this predicament being to fit exchange cylinder heads; hence the price mentioned.
What does the local Scania dealer have to say about the chances of this being a porous cylinder head? Unless Scania have a means in situ then to test the heads would normally require each one to be removed, even then most engine reconditioning companies will not guarantee that their test has not resulted in a false negative, since the temperature condition and clamping load of a running engine are entirely different; that being when they are looking for the more frequent problem of coolant in the combustion chamber or remote possibility of seeping past the injector sleeve. They will not be able to replicate the opposite of the higher fuel system pressure of a running engine trying to seep past the sleeve. This guy is not gambling on someone else honouring their findings.
Thanks for the last three responses:
(a) There’s no evidence anywhere of white fur or corrosion anywhere on any of the water filled ancillaries - we’ve only ever filled with antifreeze. Obviously don’t know what it had beforehand but doesn’t appear to be damage from running with hard water
(b). Don’t know if it has a separate coolant filter - will check. thank you.
(c) I haven’t had the impression he’s trying to price himself out of a job - just the opposite. First couple of calls were between him and my other/better (female) half and I think he made the mistake of assuming she/we wouldn’t know any better and wouldn’t investigate anything. I have tried the Scania dealer in Swindon (the more local Newbury one has sadly closed) - they’ve never heard of porous heads before (there are 5 individual heads - it’s an unusual Scania system). Think it’s nonsense.
Thank you everyone for the responses = very helpful. Any joy with suggestions for a decent mechanic in the Reading area?
what makes you say it is diesel [and not oil ] in the coolant. on a van i had it had oil in the water but no water in the oil. it turned out to be a pinhole leak in the oil cooler .it took 2 yrs to find it ! and drove normally using minimal oil and no water
corij:
what makes you say it is diesel [and not oil ] in the coolant. on a van i had it had oil in the water but no water in the oil. it turned out to be a pinhole leak in the oil cooler .it took 2 yrs to find it ! and drove normally using minimal oil and no water
I know of a fleet thats had a couple of oil coolers on the dc09 lump, apparently easy to do.