Dieback

UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS THE UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUM (INTERACTIVE)
1

Am I the only one who’s thinking that the industry is due for such a dieback as the black death did for local village populations?

I’m not talking about physical death here, although this year so far has been pretty bad by standards as well. :frowning:

We’ve got a huge driver population at, or nearing retirement, nowhere near enough coming in at the other end to replace them, and slipping standards among those already on the road, going by other posts of late.

A few years ago, there were not enough tradesfolk, ,ie plumbers and other skilled C&G type labourers. The shortgage was made up with immigration, which is a fig-leaf fix if ever there was one.

Now the same thing is happening to drivers. I’m sure I’m not the only one thinking that there well may be a correlation between worsening standards and the fact that there are so many out there who can barely read latin script roadsigns, let alone speak English properly, or find our way around a UK road system that can baffle the experienced Brit on occasions!

What would now happen if a large number of those drivers now get homesick, and decide to leave the industry in the UK at least? Or when a load of current incumbents have retired? Or the poor standard population have all lost their licences via the totting up process? :exclamation:

I might suggest the first sign any of the above would be firms including agencies going under not because they can’t get the clients & the work, but because they can’t fill the shifts or afford the rising insurance costs! :question:

There is an apparent huge shortage of 17t drivers in Kent, especially in the Tonbridge area. The older folk don’t want it, the younger folk are not meeting the insurance standards to get it on agency, and no one seems to be interested in picking up such work on a full time contract. How much longer until this spreads outwards both in terms of vehicle size, and type of work I wonder? :confused:

Market forces would have a bunch of drivers in the apparent “overpopulated north” come down here, but from what I read, there’s little interest, let alone desire to do such a thing - even for better pay and conditions. :open_mouth:

In the end then, this country will be a net loser of drivers in a process that may well have already started, which bodes badly for anyone in the haulage industry unable to work around this ever-evident scenario. I too believe that the DCPC will be quietly “dropped” at the last minute, when it becomes apparent that the haulage industry would grind to a halt overnight should it be implemented with full zeal. :unamused:

2

That’s what I see in the near future! Or! They have to increase the pass rates at test centres! :wink:

3

Winseer:
Am I the only one who’s thinking that the industry is due for such a dieback as the black death did for local village populations?

I’m not talking about physical death here, although this year so far has been pretty bad by standards as well. :frowning:

We’ve got a huge driver population at, or nearing retirement, nowhere near enough coming in at the other end to replace them, and slipping standards among those already on the road, going by other posts of late.

A few years ago, there were not enough tradesfolk, ,ie plumbers and other skilled C&G type labourers. The shortgage was made up with immigration, which is a fig-leaf fix if ever there was one.

Now the same thing is happening to drivers. I’m sure I’m not the only one thinking that there well may be a correlation between worsening standards and the fact that there are so many out there who can barely read latin script roadsigns, let alone speak English properly, or find our way around a UK road system that can baffle the experienced Brit on occasions!

What would now happen if a large number of those drivers now get homesick, and decide to leave the industry in the UK at least? Or when a load of current incumbents have retired? Or the poor standard population have all lost their licences via the totting up process? :exclamation:

I might suggest the first sign any of the above would be firms including agencies going under not because they can’t get the clients & the work, but because they can’t fill the shifts or afford the rising insurance costs! :question:

There is an apparent huge shortage of 17t drivers in Kent, especially in the Tonbridge area. The older folk don’t want it, the younger folk are not meeting the insurance standards to get it on agency, and no one seems to be interested in picking up such work on a full time contract. How much longer until this spreads outwards both in terms of vehicle size, and type of work I wonder? :confused:

Market forces would have a bunch of drivers in the apparent “overpopulated north” come down here, but from what I read, there’s little interest, let alone desire to do such a thing - even for better pay and conditions. :open_mouth:
In the end then, this country will be a net loser of drivers in a process that may well have already started, which bodes badly for anyone in the haulage industry unable to work around this ever-evident scenario. I too believe that the DCPC will be quietly “dropped” at the last minute, when it becomes apparent that the haulage industry would grind to a halt overnight should it be implemented with full zeal. :unamused:

Problem is mate, the ‘better pay and conditions’ is nowhere near good enough to relocate or commute down, and until it is, it won’t happen.

I applied for a job a few months ago that would’ve been far away and the advertised rate was worth it, BUT then it turned out to be a 0 hour contract and that rate was a flat rate for which you’d be expected to work weekends.

I was looking at dragging my caravan down and living down there for a while and nipping home on my time off, but without regular days off to plan time with my missus and without guarenteed minimum hours, I’d have been an absolute imbosile to do it.

I get £9 / hr + time and half O/T, time and half sat and double sun when these are available. I’d be willing and able to take a full time permanent job for a lower rate due to guarenteed hours, but if you start adding commuting or relcating, it would have to be MUCH better rates or conditions or both.

4

In my view this was a serious issue that needed addressing prior to it being exacerbated by DCPC.

Anyone who’s been out driving mixing with other lorry drivers knew the backbone of the workforce was grey-haired blokes that if they’d been working as a traffic copper would have gone off to spend more time on Saga holidays and the golf course a long time ago.

I think the government might be seriously misled by the licence holder statistics. There might be quite a lot of younger drivers, ex-army etc., that hold licences but they ain’t the ones behind the wheel of the country’s artic fleet.

5

Winseer:
Am I the only one who’s thinking that the industry is due for such a dieback as the black death did for local village populations?

I’m not talking about physical death here, although this year so far has been pretty bad by standards as well. :frowning:

We’ve got a huge driver population at, or nearing retirement, nowhere near enough coming in at the other end to replace them, and slipping standards among those already on the road, going by other posts of late.

A few years ago, there were not enough tradesfolk, ,ie plumbers and other skilled C&G type labourers. The shortgage was made up with immigration, which is a fig-leaf fix if ever there was one.

Now the same thing is happening to drivers. I’m sure I’m not the only one thinking that there well may be a correlation between worsening standards and the fact that there are so many out there who can barely read latin script roadsigns, let alone speak English properly, or find our way around a UK road system that can baffle the experienced Brit on occasions!

What would now happen if a large number of those drivers now get homesick, and decide to leave the industry in the UK at least? Or when a load of current incumbents have retired? Or the poor standard population have all lost their licences via the totting up process? :exclamation:

I might suggest the first sign any of the above would be firms including agencies going under not because they can’t get the clients & the work, but because they can’t fill the shifts or afford the rising insurance costs! :question:

There is an apparent huge shortage of 17t drivers in Kent, especially in the Tonbridge area. The older folk don’t want it, the younger folk are not meeting the insurance standards to get it on agency, and no one seems to be interested in picking up such work on a full time contract. How much longer until this spreads outwards both in terms of vehicle size, and type of work I wonder? :confused:

Market forces would have a bunch of drivers in the apparent “overpopulated north” come down here, but from what I read, there’s little interest, let alone desire to do such a thing - even for better pay and conditions. :open_mouth:

In the end then, this country will be a net loser of drivers in a process that may well have already started, which bodes badly for anyone in the haulage industry unable to work around this ever-evident scenario. I too believe that the DCPC will be quietly “dropped” at the last minute, when it becomes apparent that the haulage industry would grind to a halt overnight should it be implemented with full zeal. :unamused:

doomed, doomed we’re all doomed

6

I don’t think the driver Cpc will be dropped, I also think there could be a possible wage increase for drivers as there is more demand for them. I’m 23, I don’t mind putting up with the Cpc and other things so long as it benefits me in the long run.

7

ibson:
I don’t think the driver Cpc will be dropped, I also think there could be a possible wage increase for drivers as there is more demand for them. I’m 23, I don’t mind putting up with the Cpc and other things so long as it benefits me in the long run.

At 23 you wont remember the boom times, when a driver could tell his boss to “shove it” walk out of the gates and into another job in minutes, companies bought high end trucks just to attract drivers - £9 per hour was sneered at- its not that long ago that was the norm , then the recession hit and everything took a nose dive - drivers stopped being a needed commidity- now there are more drivers than jobs- and employers have their pick- wages go down - quajlity of trucks go down

While the DCPC may be a farce in its current form - if enough drivers refuse to do it, then those that do will be back in the market place - in a strong position to get good rates and decent motors and that can only be a good thing for the individual driver

8

Rikki-UK:

ibson:
I don’t think the driver Cpc will be dropped, I also think there could be a possible wage increase for drivers as there is more demand for them. I’m 23, I don’t mind putting up with the Cpc and other things so long as it benefits me in the long run.

At 23 you wont remember the boom times, when a driver could tell his boss to “shove it” walk out of the gates and into another job in minutes, companies bought high end trucks just to attract drivers - £9 per hour was sneered at- its not that long ago that was the norm , then the recession hit and everything took a nose dive - drivers stopped being a needed commidity- now there are more drivers than jobs- and employers have their pick- wages go down - quajlity of trucks go down

While the DCPC may be a farce in its current form - if enough drivers refuse to do it, then those that do will be back in the market place - in a strong position to get good rates and decent motors and that can only be a good thing for the individual driver

I am to young to remember I’m afraid.

Is there really more drivers than jobs? I thought there was a shortage of young drivers?

9

There’s certainly a shortage of insurers that will extend cover to young drivers unfortunately.

10

Own Account Driver:
There’s certainly a shortage of insurers that will extend cover to young drivers unfortunately.

True, my excess on our trucks is ridiculose.

Why the hell did they drop the c and c+e tests to 18 if you can’t get reasonable insurance until 25!

11

Rikki-UK:

ibson:
I don’t think the driver Cpc will be dropped, I also think there could be a possible wage increase for drivers as there is more demand for them. I’m 23, I don’t mind putting up with the Cpc and other things so long as it benefits me in the long run.

At 23 you wont remember the boom times, when a driver could tell his boss to “shove it” walk out of the gates and into another job in minutes, companies bought high end trucks just to attract drivers - £9 per hour was sneered at- its not that long ago that was the norm , then the recession hit and everything took a nose dive - drivers stopped being a needed commidity- now there are more drivers than jobs- and employers have their pick- wages go down - quajlity of trucks go down

While the DCPC may be a farce in its current form - if enough drivers refuse to do it, then those that do will be back in the market place - in a strong position to get good rates and decent motors and that can only be a good thing for the individual driver

it’s also another hoop to jump through, which from now on will put off a percentage of people coming into the industry. less people coming in should mean better wages. doing away with the 7.5t entitlement with a car license about 15 years ago is also going to start to make a difference.

the future could be a bit brighter

train drivers get paid more because of the investment the company has made in them, embrace the training :laughing: :laughing:

12

ibson:
Is there really more drivers than jobs? I thought there was a shortage of young drivers?

whether there is or not is irrelevant really, all that matters is the supply and demand of drivers at any given time

13

stevieboy308:

Rikki-UK:

ibson:
I don’t think the driver Cpc will be dropped, I also think there could be a possible wage increase for drivers as there is more demand for them. I’m 23, I don’t mind putting up with the Cpc and other things so long as it benefits me in the long run.

“doing away with the 7.5t entitlement with a car license about 15 years ago is also going to start to make a difference.”

the future could be a bit brighter

train drivers get paid more because of the investment the company has made in them, embrace the training :laughing: :laughing:

Eh? I don’t recall this happening at ANY time?

I figured 2013 was going to be the year where if you had a 7.5t entitlement on a car licence, you’d lose it without the DCPC after that year?

What next? Lose the C+E entitlement because I’ve had no full time job for 2 years?

14

Own Account Driver:
There’s certainly a shortage of insurers that will extend cover to young drivers unfortunately.

It’s not they won’t cover you - it’s just prohibitively expensive! :angry:

Maybe the whole thing is about increasing the pool of people prepared to pay into the government-managed financial world economy?

“Yes Minister, Banks and Insurers are all trading when illiquid which is illegal for everyone else, so what can we do to resolve this ongoing situation?”
“Carstairs - you know what? - We merely need to re-inflate both economies with fluff money drained from the community that already works in the transport sectors! - Just think, fees for everything, cards & licences that expire every five minutes, cameras that increase the cost of your insurance, banks that increase the cost of your tick, and of course firms that say they can’t afford to pay higher wages because their insurance and interest overheads are too high!”

“The Economics of the future are somewhat different. We steal all the money in a massive pyramid scheme, that has the entire economy’s money rise to the top, which we all-the-while replace and pad out what we took with credit so that it isn’t missed whilst we steal it”

15

■■■■ it…i dont care.the country is ■■■■■■, im ■■■■■■,and all we talk about is the ■■■■■■■ olympics and andy ■■■■■■ murray…■■■■ em all

16

Rikki-UK:

ibson:
I don’t think the driver Cpc will be dropped, I also think there could be a possible wage increase for drivers as there is more demand for them. I’m 23, I don’t mind putting up with the Cpc and other things so long as it benefits me in the long run.

At 23 you wont remember the boom times, when a driver could tell his boss to “shove it” walk out of the gates and into another job in minutes, companies bought high end trucks just to attract drivers - £9 per hour was sneered at- its not that long ago that was the norm , then the recession hit and everything took a nose dive - drivers stopped being a needed commidity- now there are more drivers than jobs- and employers have their pick- wages go down - quajlity of trucks go down

While the DCPC may be a farce in its current form - if enough drivers refuse to do it, then those that do will be back in the market place - in a strong position to get good rates and decent motors and that can only be a good thing for the individual driver

I caught the arse end of this, well walking out one job and into another never seemed a problem, decent enough wages.

as for the last bit about better rates etc we will have to wait and see but i very much doubt alot will change.

17

gogzy:
I caught the arse end of this, well walking out one job and into another never seemed a problem, decent enough wages.

as for the last bit about better rates etc we will have to wait and see but i very much doubt alot will change.

Same here, mainly as lot of the one spouting about not doing it will see that they have no choice but to do it. Other jobs just aren’t available, and the dole will probably see it as you have made yourself jobless.

The other way it may go, is the hauliers will have to swallow the extra cost of the insurance for new drivers, which may depress rates further.

18

Is the great dieback going to be about “wages endurance” then?

Basically, how low can YOU go before the pay is no longer economically viable?

I never understood why the north seems to have a stronger stomach for low pay than down here. I get told it’s to do with the cost of living, but I’ve been to ■■■■■■■■ York, etc. OUTSIDE the inner cities many times, and I see expensive everything - just as bad as London coupled with low wages for the locals, AND a bad attitude by both the locals and those just passing through like me.

There’s got to be something else involved I think. :confused:

19

Winseer:
Is the great dieback going to be about “wages endurance” then?

Basically, how low can YOU go before the pay is no longer economically viable?

I never understood why the north seems to have a stronger stomach for low pay than down here. I get told it’s to do with the cost of living, but I’ve been to ■■■■■■■■ York, etc. OUTSIDE the inner cities many times, and I see expensive everything - just as bad as London coupled with low wages for the locals, AND a bad attitude by both the locals and those just passing through like me.

There’s got to be something else involved I think. :confused:

The cost of living is much less up north, where else can you buy a terrace for under 30k, drive to work every day and think you’ve got gridlock when there are ten cars in front of you at the lights, you pay £2.50 for a pint, I could go on …

20

In the Business section of our local paper last week was an article about the local Michelin factory,saying that there was a labour problem due to,“An aging workforce and lack of young people coming into the industry…”
Same can be said for most industries,especially the transport industry.
In the “Situations vacant” column there are always jobs advertised for “Experienced” workers for:Mig welders,machinists and other jobs that at one time men did an apprenticeship for.
One very high profile and well known engineering firm has been advertising for months for “Experienced vertical lathe turners”,even to the point of the MD suggesting that prospective employees get an apprenticeship to learn the job,then come and work here,NO ofer of an apprenticeship with them though.
Most employers these days think that experienced men are standing on street corners just waiting to drop into a job.
My son aged 40 has over 10 years experiance on 7.5 vehicles and was happy in the job he had for over 4 years until the firm decided that it did not have enough work to maintain the 7.5 fleet,so they paid all those drivers off and they were all made redundant.
That was over 2 years ago.Since then he has been back to the agency that got him the job in the first place,and every other agency that advertises,but we all know that over 90% of agencies are crap,advertising jobs they haven’t got or sending men out for a job that is not what it is advertised as,or to an address that doesn’t exist,
During his time in between agency jobs,I have helped my boy out to over £3,000 to get trained up for Hiab,ADR,full DCPC,renew his counterbalance fork lift licence,(Already over 10 years experience) and add a reach category,and finally to take his class 2.
He now has more qualifications than I’ve ever had,and every job he applies for he gets the same answer,no experience!
His 10 years 7.5 experience don’t count for ■■■■ all!
He would willingly go for his class 1,but why go to that expense to be in the same position as he is with a class 2,no experience!
I’m well aware that he is not alone,there are probably thousands of younger men out there who’ve paid for the qualifications but can’t use them because of that elusive ingredient,EXPERIENCE!
Here’s me coming up to 69 next week,and thank God still fit enough to have just passed my medical for another year to continue at my paying hobby as weekend class 1 trunk driver.
There are many class 1 jobs on offer round here at the moment,but going back to the theme of this thread,an aging workforce and no new blood coming into the industry.
This excuse about unable to insure you with less than 2 years experience is all ■■■■■■■■ too,some of the jobs offered ask for prospective employees to have 2 years experience OR,to have held a licence for 2 years!
Now surely that is more dangerous,to jump into a vehicle you have not driven since you passed your test 2 years ago,than start the week AFTER you’d passed your test?
We all know the job is ■■■■■■,but whatever happens,road transport will always survive,we couldn’t live without it.
But I hope that very,very soon,the industry gets the bite in the arse that it deserves!
There are thousands of qualified,but disillusioned young drivers out there,don’t let them go to waste!