Apologies if I am not supposed to ask here, but can anybody suggest a realistic salary to offer to drivers in Midlands for supermarket deliveries, based on average 12 hour shifts any 5 out of seven. Also would be looking for night drivers for inter depot trunking.
Thanks
Joe
My first thought is, why do you even think that people want to work 60 hours a week ?. You may get a few cab rats who want to do that but in this day and age if you are going to retain drivers you should be offering a decent wage for about 45 hours. Is it any wonder that people don’t want to do this job anymore when you are expected to do half as much again as a normal working person.
Ex Haulier:
My first thought is, why do you even think that people want to work 60 hours a week ?. You may get a few cab rats who want to do that but in this day and age if you are going to retain drivers you should be offering a decent wage for about 45 hours. Is it any wonder that people don’t want to do this job anymore when you are expected to do half as much again as a normal working person.
Thank the lord, at least it’s not just me who thinks drivers should be treated as normal human beings with a life other than work,BTW I’m also a boss!
If you have to ask you can’t afford us…
But I reckon for days £15p/h with time and half after 8 hours. Double time after 12 hours.
Weekend & BH time and half with double time after 4 hours.
Primary bank holidays, Christmas day etc triple time all day.
Good pension scheme and good working conditions also are a must, and nice motors so they provide good residuals in the long term.
Reckon these rates will attract some fairly decent drivers, deduct rate as you see fit but this will reduce the quality of driver- these things kind of go hand in hand, so I’m told.
Did I miss something? Where are all the 45 hours a week jobs in the transport industry? That is why I asked realistic salary, say for example we advertised it at £40000 a year do you think there would be much interest?
Dipper_Dave:
If you have to ask you can’t afford us…But I reckon for days £15p/h with time and half after 8 hours. Double time after 12 hours.
Weekend & BH time and half with double time after 4 hours.Primary bank holidays, Christmas day etc triple time all day.
Good pension scheme and good working conditions also are a must, and nice motors so they provide good residuals in the long term.
Reckon these rates will attract some fairly decent drivers, deduct rate as you see fit but this will reduce the quality of driver- these things kind of go hand in hand, so I’m told.
Nice thought but you could get an airline pilot for that I expect
098Joe:
Did I miss something? Where are all the 45 hours a week jobs in the transport industry? That is why I asked realistic salary, say for example we advertised it at £40000 a year do you think there would be much interest?
There are no end of them in the supermarket sector. 40 or 45 hours and then overtime if you want to do it. No sensible person would sign up for a job where 60 hours was a basic week.
A brave man indeed will ask drivers what to pay them.
I was earning the same in 1985 as most get now,more if I went over the water.
I know at least 2 hauliers who have gone out of business due to damages caused to equipment and reputation for employing cheap (foriegn) labour.
Isnt 60 hrs a week against WTD?
Having said that £40K is a decent salary but I would rather be on hrs. personally.
What hours are N.trunkers on?
I hope you get some decent drivers as you seem to be a sound lad.
For 60 hours, to get the better staff you’ll be looking at £38/40k for days.
It might be worth considering setting up 4 on 4 off instead, salaried @ around £32k should get you decent blokes, opportunities for rest day overtime @ £150/170 a shift (more bank hols) so they can make their money up to that £38/40k or more if they max out and still have 2 or3 days off per week, and you get hols covered by the regulars…equals minimal temping and minimal damage, assuming your choose wisely.
Thing is with 4/4 each driver knows where they are and can plan stuff.
Does that sound a lot?, well its less than some are now getting, but if the work’s decent you should be able to take your pick of the better drivers.
Ex Haulier:
My first thought is, why do you even think that people want to work 60 hours a week ?. You may get a few cab rats who want to do that but in this day and age if you are going to retain drivers you should be offering a decent wage for about 45 hours. Is it any wonder that people don’t want to do this job anymore when you are expected to do half as much again as a normal working person.
Are you allowed to say that drivers should work normal hours?
40k is a pretty decent wage in my opinion, as for the 60 hour week, isn’t that an average of what most folks do?
60 hours a week, week in, week out is bent. You may do an average of 48 hours over the reference period. You may not drive more than 90 hours a fortnight under any circumstances.
Do just 2 weeks of 60 hours, and you might will find yourself running bent already by this point - if you’re not akip in some yard waiting to be tipped for most of the hours of your duty on POA that is… There must be some yards out there that will try and get 9+9+9+9+10+10 out of their drivers as many weeks as they’ll foolishly allow… Even 56 hours “on shift” week in, week out will have you fall foul of WTD, but 56 hours driving as your “salaried regular hours” has to be a big no-no.
On the other hand, a ONE OFF “hours slam” of 60 hours on duty, 56 hours driving would be OK for an agency to do, as they can take the next week off at leisure - without any pressure from gaffer to “do some shunting and van driving off book” to get the average hours back down again. 
Full timers should tell their gaffers that 55-60 hour “contract salaried weeks” is just not on. Grow some balls everyone - please! 
Full time jobs should be 35-40 hours with hours over this paid at overtime rates - not this daft system that encourages people to drive half asleep, because you ‘don’t get overtime unless you go without that sleep’ all too often! 
Thanks for the more constructive replies. We are just trying to provide a service (and jobs) that has been requested by some of our customers. WTD can be opted out of, 5 x 12 hour shifts equals no reduced rest and if less than 9 hours driving then no reason not to do it week in week out. It is easy work 2 or 3 drops a shift and new tractor units, but has to work out to be cost effective. Maybe owner drivers a better option.
098Joe:
Thanks for the more constructive replies. We are just trying to provide a service (and jobs) that has been requested by some of our customers. WTD can be opted out of, 5 x 12 hour shifts equals no reduced rest and if less than 9 hours driving then no reason not to do it week in week out. It is easy work 2 or 3 drops a shift and new tractor units, but has to work out to be cost effective. Maybe owner drivers a better option.
truck drivers can not opt out of the wtd, but the 60 hour max and 48 hour average are driving and other work and don’t include breaks and poa
Winseer:
Full timers should tell their gaffers that 55-60 hour “contract salaried weeks” is just not on. Grow some balls everyone - please!Full time jobs should be 35-40 hours with hours over this paid at overtime rates - not this daft system that encourages people to drive half asleep, because you ‘don’t get overtime unless you go without that sleep’ all too often!
Hear Hear!!! 37.5 hours per week is the accepted norm. outside transport - so how have we got to this ridiculous state of affairs?? Overtime should be voluntary above & beyond 40ish hours with an enhanced hourly rate.
Do people think we’ve slipped into this maxxing out of hours as a target because drivers actually enjoy driving?? Maybe in years gone by, but nowadays the only pleasure is the vehicles themselves - they have, after all, come a long way. All other aspects of the job are tiresome at best.
I wonder what impact the upcoming Driver CPC deadline will have on the situation -will we be expected to still do minimum of 1.5 x weeks work every single week? Or will it be rounded up to 2 weeks (80 hours) work per week??
Bottom line is the firm’s already don’t have enough trucks & drivers on the road.
48 hour WTD average should never be gotten close to. Why not have a 37.5 hour average as a target??
All POA’s should be taken at drivers discretion - preferably at home on the settee!!!
098Joe:
Thanks for the more constructive replies. We are just trying to provide a service (and jobs) that has been requested by some of our customers. WTD can be opted out of, 5 x 12 hour shifts equals no reduced rest and if less than 9 hours driving then no reason not to do it week in week out. It is easy work 2 or 3 drops a shift and new tractor units, but has to work out to be cost effective. Maybe owner drivers a better option.
I can’t believe some people (management) STILL believe the RTWTD can be “opted out of”. When is the penny going to drop■■? Learn the bloody rules - or go on a course in order to do so!!!
I’d only offer a bloke 60 hours a week if I was looking for a part-timer. 
098Joe:
Thanks for the more constructive replies. We are just trying to provide a service (and jobs) that has been requested by some of our customers. WTD can be opted out of, 5 x 12 hour shifts equals no reduced rest and if less than 9 hours driving then no reason not to do it week in week out. It is easy work 2 or 3 drops a shift and new tractor units, but has to work out to be cost effective. Maybe owner drivers a better option.
5x12 can work if it’s 9.5 hours per day actual duty, with the rest being breaks and “quality” POA - that is, POA that is “as good as a break” where you are free to dispose of your time as you wish. Get something to eat, read a newspaper, have a kip. Not get moved on by some scouser who doesn’t like the sound of your fridge.
47.5 hours a week on duty, means you are under the critical 48 hour average for week-in, week-out work.
Personally, my “ideal working week” would be friday-monday late afternoon starts, 12 hour shifts. 5pm-5am x 4 shifts = 48 hour working week, for which I’m paid for all of those hours, not docked for meal breaks, etc. If I take any time off, I bank hours that can then be put towards “overtime availability” which would be working the 5th shift, and in theory could be done each and every week that one books a single odd day off. Oh, I get a premium for permanent nights and working saturday & sunday as well. £640 a week for the 4 days seems a very reasonable expectation of a wage for these hours, , the average hourly rate being £15. (friday night & monday night could be £12ph, saturday & sunday night could be £18 an hour - but it all comes out the same in the wash.)
Best of all, even if you work the “overtime shift” - you are getting a full 45 hour weekly rest EVERY WEEK! 
I stand corrected on the WTD. Looks like Juddians 4 on 4 off could be the best solution.
If you wanted to be a precedent setting employer in haulage, then you would offer a proper salary based on contracted hours. Say £26000 - £28,000pa contracted 40 hours per week. No fake 48 hours excluding POA, break etc. That is real hours at work - from the moment you check in to the moment you check out.
Therefore leave and pension based on that salary.
Then have a proper scheduling agreement or contract, that states how much over time will be paid at above the salary reconciled at hourly rate with a multiplier. If a longer duty is OPTED for then the choice must be given to either reduce duty available for next days duty or if OPTED for a normal duty the next day. This avoids the archaic 1970s attitude that the three 15s and two 9s belong to the employer and they control when you reduce rest. On what pattern you achieve this to suit manning demand is details, 5/2, 4/3 etc.
This is just pie in the sky. It’s about time the large hauliers stop with this fake 48 hour week stuff. We all know you’re at work 60 hours because it exclude POA, breaks et al. It’s all just a fiddle to keep it in the dark ages.