DCPC Training

[rog]

dieseldave:
but since DCPC is the driver’s responsibility, the driver gets to decide what he/she needs.

In that case the driver should be able to choose exactly what they need and go for that exact option but we all know that is not the case and probably will never be under this system

Lets say that I DECIDE I want a couple of hours on domestic driving regs but not the rest - can I do that - NO
But hang on… if I was assessed then it would probably be determined that my knowledge of other regs was not up to standard even though I think it is… how would I know that if I am not assessed ?

Also - what if the driver decides that do not need anything - can the driver decide that ■■?

All the Dcpc says is - You lot need training but no-one knows exactly what that could be !!

[mike-c]

ROG:
All the Dcpc says is - You lot need training but no-one knows exactly what that could be !!

I assumed it was work related relevant training, there’s loads of courses to choose from. I also believe it will be a foolish employer who does not provide this training for his employees, so i’m not convinced its the drivers responsability. A lot of legislation is already in place and some of it quite old (comparitivley) for employers to ensure their staff are trained.

[rog]

Mike-C:

ROG:
All the Dcpc says is - You lot need training but no-one knows exactly what that could be !!

I assumed it was work related relevant training, there’s loads of courses to choose from. I also believe it will be a foolish employer who does not provide this training for his employees, so i’m not convinced its the drivers responsability. A lot of legislation is already in place and some of it quite old (comparitivley) for employers to ensure their staff are trained.

That’s the key bit - trained specifically for the job they are actually doing.
I would have welcomed EU legislation that stated that employers MUST set relevant training courses for that purpose and that ongoing assessing/training MUST be done for each driver by the employer.

A system could be put in place for temporary staff when they work at a company - again with the onus on the company to ensure that the temp driver had adequate training for the job they have been tasked to do.

I’m not saying that drivers do not have an idea as to what they want in regards to training - most do - but they only want the training that will be relevant to the job in hand and do not want to spend 7 hours training when only 1 or 2 hours of that is relevant to them.

[dieseldave]

ROG:

dieseldave:
but since DCPC is the driver’s responsibility, the driver gets to decide what he/she needs.

In that case the driver should be able to choose exactly what they need and go for that exact option but we all know that is not the case and probably will never be under this system

ROG, this really doesn’t need putting under your microscope, and it’s quite simple really.

The driver chooses from the available approved courses, how hard can that be??
DSA/JAUPT get to decide what subject areas the courses can address, so why do you try to examine that over which you have no control?
I don’t agree with most of the crap that comes from DSA/JAUPT, but the law is the law and we’re stuck with it.

ROG:
Lets say that I DECIDE I want a couple of hours on domestic driving regs but not the rest - can I do that - NO

That’s because it doesn’t work like that.
If a provider were to write such a course, it would have to fit the conditions for course approval as would any other course.
BTW, you’re miles off-topic now.

ROG:
But hang on… if I was assessed then it would probably be determined that my knowledge of other regs was not up to standard even though I think it is… how would I know that if I am not assessed ?

That question and the answer are irrelevant, because the system doesn’t work like that.

ROG:
Also - what if the driver decides that do not need anything - can the driver decide that ■■?

Yes ROG, of course a driver can decide that if they wish. However, according to the law, there’s an outcome to that decision.

ROG:
All the Dcpc says is - You lot need training but no-one knows exactly what that could be !!

For now, a driver gets to choose from the available menu.

A lot of what you wrote in your post are questions that IMHO would be best put to DSA/JAUPT, or made the subject of a different topic.

The OP has asked a fair question, so why not stick to it?

[rog]

dieseldave:
The OP has asked a fair question, so why not stick to it?

The OP has not stated what he found amusing so that is a bit hard to do

[mike-c]

ROG:

dieseldave:
The OP has asked a fair question, so why not stick to it?

The OP has not stated what he found amusing so that is a bit hard to do

the rest might be easier?

but many of them incorrect, any other drivers feel that the information out there or being discussed in truck stops etc is giving a false representaion of the facts??

[miketdt]

Welcome DCPCTRAINER.
OK spit it out son lets heard what you have to say on the subject.
Don’t be shy, enlighten us all.

[bloodoodle]

Since DCPCTrainer seems to have thrown in his twopennoth and vanished I’ll try and point out the points he doesn’t seem able to

Firstly, it’s my opinion that had the DCPC been gorvernment funded or paid for by the employer then no driver would have objected to having job related training.
Having said that, I’m finding the most popular option in my area, is that employers are paying for the training, but are not paying drivers for their time to do it. ( even though it’s classed as ‘other work’ for the purpose of the Tacho regs.)

The syllabus has a very wide range of subjects and there are loads of different courses available to choose from if you are having to pay for your own training.
These can all be found on the JAUPT website.
You are not forced to pay to be trained in something you don’t want to learn.
If you wanted a bacon roll, you wouldn’t go out and buy a jar of jam, would you?

Now, Rog and I have had previous discussions via PM’s about his attitude to the DCPC, and his many incorrect assumptions he posts on here, but he only seems to hear what he wants to hear.

The most common problem is that any Tom ■■■■ or Harry can set up as a Trainer with NO qualifications whatsoever.
This isn’t so.
When I write a course, specifically designed for a particular area of the haulage industry it has to comply rigidly to the syllabus and it costs me £252 to have the course checked and passed for training.

I have to submit my qualifications to prove my ability to teach this subject which consist of…
My CPC National Certificate ( circa 1987, but no update training needed■■? )
My City & Guilds certificate to Train
6 Course certificates to prove I have taken instruction in the subjects I am including in the course
AND a letter from my previous employer stating I have practised the subjects I intend to teach to an acceptable level.

Now that makes most of you right on the last one but if I was expecting to make a quick buck that would be the easy one.

If that’s all there was to it, why hasn’t Rog set himself up as a DCPC Trainer to make loads of money at the expense of drivers and get off the sick?
After all, the heaviest thing I have to move is my whiteboard and they can come on wheels

Now, let’s address the need of training.

I stopped lorry driving last September after 29 and a bit years of tramping. I desperately wanted to do my 30 years but the arthritis wouldn’t let me do another winter.
I thought, like some of you, that I knew it all and didn’t need anyone to tell me anything. I was an old time, experienced driver and resented the fact that some spotty faced ilk would try and tell me I didn’t

I got bored at home and needed to get back to doing some sort of work in an industry that I love so I started to look into DCPC training.
I soon found when I started my own training that I certainly didn’t know everything
I had to take a tacho and digital tacho course twice, to come up to scratch to be able to teach it with confidence.
I’d always done things a certain way, since the year dot I was convinced that was the right way because I’d always done it like that, but it wasn’t.
Things had changed, laws had been altered but no-one had actually told me about it…why would they?
I was an old time experienced driver who thought she knew it all with an employer who trusted me to do it right

Just last Friday, I had 4 drivers on my course who didn’t know that they had to take 15 minutes and then 30 minutes break if they split a 45 minute break.
There was many variations at what they thought they could take, but none of them were legal
But they don’t think they need training because they use a tacho every day, don’t they? Been using one for donkeys years, just like I had
You only have to look at the amount of questions asked on any forum about tacho’s to see there is a need for us ALL to be better informed.

Let’s address the DCPC itself.
Yes, it could have been better thought out and implemented in a different way, but it’s my opinion that unless it was totally free for the driver it would always have it’s critics.
A bad trainer can give wrong information in the classroom, but just as a bad HGV trainer can give the wrong information to a pupil learning to drive when in the cab. My better half had one who sat in the passenger seat and went to sleep while he was learning to drive an artic

One thing is for sure…

It’s better information than you’ll ever get from the transport cafe big mouth or the Goods In waiting room wannabe lawyer who thinks he knows it all

And we’ve all met a few of them

Pat

[truckerjon]

bloodoodle:
Just last Friday, I had 4 drivers on my course who didn’t know that they had to take 15 minutes and then 30 minutes break if they split a 45 minute break.
There was many variations at what they thought they could take, but none of them were legal
But they don’t think they need training because they use a tacho every day, don’t they? Been using one for donkeys years, just like I had
You only have to look at the amount of questions asked on any forum about tacho’s to see there is a need for us ALL to be better informed.

t

And if the employers had done thier job, these drivers would have been informed of the changes to the hours rules. I was training in a company at the time of the changes, and made sure every driver attended a 2 hour refresher on the drivers hours regs including the changes. most came reluctantly, thinking, I don’t need this, however they all left having learnt something. When I checked the infringements, I could see if a driver was getting it wrong, and took the time to explain his errors, not just shove a piece of paper under his nose, and say Sign This!
A bit of investment from employers would reap it’s own rewards, better drivers,less accidents, better fuel consumption and less infringements, however, all they see is the bottom line, and this DCPC has taken the responsibility for driver training away from them

[miketdt]

Excellent post Pat, would have liked to heard it from DCPCTRAINER.

[rog]

bloodoodle:
The most common problem is that any Tom ■■■■ or Harry can set up as a Trainer with NO qualifications whatsoever.
This isn’t so.
When I write a course, specifically designed for a particular area of the haulage industry it has to comply rigidly to the syllabus and it costs me £252 to have the course checked and passed for training.

That is for a Dcpc TRAINING PROVIDER and I never said that anyone could do that

What I did say, and I did have the forms from JAUPT somewhere…, is that a Dcpc TRAINER does not require anything except a letter confirming that they have the relevant knowledge.

A TRAINER has to work for a TRAINING PROVIDER

[bloodoodle]

I would like to add as well, that a lot of trainers are flexible and don’t want’t drivers to lose money by training.

My course last week started at 2.30pm. We then work out who started earliest and do 3.5 hours finishing at 6PM. As it was very hot in the training room the lads all asked for an early start on Saturday morning and some wanted to run Sunday so we all agreed a 5am start finishing before 9am ( allowing for a bacon butty!).
I had to get up at 3am to do this, and it has to comply with ‘other work’ regulations for all on the course but it means a minimum amount of working time is lost.

It does peeve me to see the constant references to DCPC Trainers as money grabbing leeches
Would you get up at 3.30am to do 3.5 hours work at normal rate?

Pat

[wheel_nut]

bloodoodle:
I would like to add as well, that a lot of trainers are flexible and don’t want’t drivers to lose money by training.

My course last week started at 2.30pm. We then work out who started earliest and do 3.5 hours finishing at 6PM. As it was very hot in the training room the lads all asked for an early start on Saturday morning and some wanted to run Sunday so we all agreed a 5am start finishing before 9am ( allowing for a bacon butty!).
I had to get up at 3am to do this, and it has to comply with ‘other work’ regulations for all on the course but it means a minimum amount of working time is lost.

It does peeve me to see the constant references to DCPC Trainers as money grabbing leeches
Would you get up at 3.30am to do 3.5 hours work at normal rate?

Pat

An interesting couple of posts Pat.
Do you mind if I provide a link to your JAUPT page and your course?

Pat Nicholson

[bloodoodle]

Not at all, but perhaps it would be better to ask the Mods first

If they feel it should be removed, I won’t have a problem with that at all.

I didn’t answer to promote mysef, just to set the record a little straighter

Pat

[bloodoodle]

Rog says

That is for a Dcpc TRAINING PROVIDER and I never said that anyone could do that

What I did say, and I did have the forms from JAUPT somewhere…, is that a Dcpc TRAINER does not require anything except a letter confirming that they have the relevant knowledge.

A TRAINER has to work for a TRAINING PROVIDER

Wrong again Rog

I work for myself and can train at Brett’s Transport or anywhere I choose.
The qualifications are for a trainer or provider.
The only time a ‘trainer’ who hasn’t been passed for training by JAUPT can train, is to train a small part of the course ( submitted and approved) with the approval of the trainer.

Just supposing I was doing Load security and I had never used chains and tensioners. I could ask someone else to do say 30min demonstration on the use of them. BUT the onus would then be on me to ensure they were both competent and delivered it correctly.

So, if there is no reason why you shouldn’t become a trainer then why haven’t you done so Rog?
Apparently you can make loads of money

Pat

[rog]

Please explain how a TRAINER, without being covered by a TRAINING course PROVIDER, can officially provide Dcpc courses ?

drivercpc-periodictraining.org/en/ptg/

As for making money - I don’t think any Dcpc training providers are actually making a profit - are they ■■

[dieseldave]

bloodoodle:
Rog says

That is for a Dcpc TRAINING PROVIDER and I never said that anyone could do that

What I did say, and I did have the forms from JAUPT somewhere…, is that a Dcpc TRAINER does not require anything except a letter confirming that they have the relevant knowledge.

A TRAINER has to work for a TRAINING PROVIDER

Wrong again Rog

I work for myself and can train at Brett’s Transport or anywhere I choose.
The qualifications are for a trainer or provider.
The only time a ‘trainer’ who hasn’t been passed for training by JAUPT can train, is to train a small part of the course ( submitted and approved) with the approval of the trainer.

Just supposing I was doing Load security and I had never used chains and tensioners. I could ask someone else to do say 30min demonstration on the use of them. BUT the onus would then be on me to ensure they were both competent and delivered it correctly.

So, if there is no reason why you shouldn’t become a trainer then why haven’t you done so Rog?
Apparently you can make loads of money

Pat

Hi Pat,

It’s possible that ROG has misunderstood the available options and has somebody like me in mind.

I’m an independent self-employed freelance instructor, but I am most definitely NOT a training provider.

The reason for this is simple:
If I were a provider, then I could pinch customers from other providers. (Then I doubt that my phone would ring.)
The way that I’ve set myself up is that providers are my customers and every job that I do is a one-off.
There’s demonstrable clear blue water between me and any provider that offers me work, because I simply cannot pinch their clients.

As many folks on here know, I teach ADR.
Now that an ADR course may be counted towards DCPC, I’ve had to get an additional JAUPT approval to teach a course that I was already competent to teach. Fortunately, this wasn’t difficult due to the fact that I was already approved and verified by SQA, and before that it was City & Guilds, so I had an easily provable track record dating back to 2003 for JAUPT to check.

DCPC as it is?
The words “fiasco” and “a stealth tax on drivers AND providers” come to mind.
The rest of my opinion on DCPC IN ITS PRESENT FORM would burn out the auto censor.

[wheel_nut]

bloodoodle:
Not at all, but perhaps it would be better to ask the Mods first

If they feel it should be removed, I won’t have a problem with that at all.

I didn’t answer to promote mysef, just to set the record a little straighter

Pat

I think as a member the rules let me promote your site, but not for you to promote yourself.

I am sure that if somebody sold Wellington boots and they put an advert on here, that is wrong, but if I said get your Wellington boots from this company then that is acceptable.

After all Don-Bur advertise for free

[bloodoodle]

dieseldave:
It’s possible that ROG has misunderstood

Now there’s something new

Pat

Who’d have thought that? dd.

[dcpctrainer]

Sorry been away, nice to know I have been missed x any issues you may have not already sussed out then let me know.