DCPC, bad and good

I did this years CPC last week.
As our outfit runs a very large fleet,and are members of the FTA,we sometimes use their instructors to run our courses,and therefore are able to request that particular topics are covered.
One of the topics covered this time was the safe use of a tail lift,fair enough…all of our large vehicles are fitted with them,because we use roll cages for all of our work.
The instructor did his bit,and to stop myself nodding off,I did a quick calculation.
My wagon holds 27 cages,and is almost always full,whether delivering or collecting.
We are only allowed to move 2 cages at a time.
In the 9 years that I’ve been working for my lot,I’ve carried out in excess of 150,000 tail lift journeys :open_mouth:
In all that time,I’ve never fell off the tail lift,and I’ve only ever lost one cage :blush: luckily,no with no witnesses :wink:
So a waste of time methinks…apart from that one cage

On the plus side,I’ve finally sussed out WTD breaks :smiley:
Despite having read the official blurb several times,I’ve always struggled to understand what breaks are required when working ( only driving a couple of hours )between 6 and 9 hours :unamused:
Our instructor has finally straightened me out ( I think)…between 6 and 9 requires 15 mins legally,but our company policy is that you must take 30 mins :neutral_face: thing is,no one ever told me :angry:

No doubt someone will be along to contradict me :laughing:

Baggie:
Our instructor has finally straightened me out ( I think)…between 6 and 9 requires 15 mins legally,but our company policy is that you must take 30 mins

No he hasn’t! :stuck_out_tongue:

Off you go Tachograph…

I just knew that would happen :laughing: :laughing:

As I understood it, up to 6 hours requires a 30 minute break before the end of those 6 hours
up to 9 hours = 45 minutes break inside those 9 hours… Not work 9 hours then take 45 minutes.

I’m probably wrong… :blush:

Baggie:
I just knew that would happen :laughing: :laughing:

Yeah it’s a bit of a funny thing that seems to occur at 6 hours, as you’re thinking about the number of WTD breaks you need in your shift, as well as the rule that you can’t go 6 hours without a break, and muddling them a bit. Between 6-9 hours you need 30 mins, which could be a 15 before 6 hours and anther 15 some time after that, and within that 6-9 hours.

So simplicity you could think of it like this, although Tachograph may have a fit! :smiley:

If I work under 6 hours I need no break, if I work 6 hours dead I need 15 mins, and if I work anything over 6 hours dead I need 30 mins.
(And above 9 hours, I’ll need 45 mins)

See if that gets my head shot off! :stuck_out_tongue:

Mobile worker shall not work more then 6hours without an 15 minute break.

mobile worker working a shift between 6-9 hours shall take a 30minute break.

To cover yourself if working 9 hour shift, take either 15 minutes, at 6 hours, and 15 during 6-9 hours, or a solid 30 at the 6 hour mark

I always take a 30 break anyway,just to err on the side of caution…but the wording of the rules could be a lot better :unamused:
And it would appear that our instructor is as confused as me…although in fairness,he was a good lad,and told some cracking jokes,which unfortunately,I can’t repeat on here :wink: :wink:

Baggie:
I always take a 30 break anyway,just to err on the side of caution…but the wording of the rules could be a lot better :unamused:

You misunderstand! :open_mouth:

Those nice people that wrote the rules that are screwing with your head, are actually all about trying to ensure you’re well rested throughout your shift. It may not work, and feels like it’s just tripping you up, but that’s besides the point! :grimacing:

OK,I’ll tell you a clean one…

I applied for a job with my local blacksmith.
He asked me,“Can you shoe a horse ?”
“No”,I replied,“But I once told a donkey to [zb] Off” :laughing:

Evil8Beezle:
So simplicity you could think of it like this, although Tachograph may have a fit! :smiley:

If I work under 6 hours I need no break, if I work 6 hours dead I need 15 mins, and if I work anything over 6 hours dead I need 30 mins.
(And above 9 hours, I’ll need 45 mins)

See if that gets my head shot off! :stuck_out_tongue:

Not at-all that’s spot on.

If you’re not going to work over 6 hours you don’t legally need a break.

You need a total of 30 minutes break if your total working time is between 6 and 9 hours and 15 minutes of that break must be started before going over 6 hours working time.

You need a total of 45 minutes break if your total working time is over 9 hours and you should not at any-time go over 6 hours without a 15 minute break.

Fortunately,in 2 years and 2 days from now,this won’t apply :wink: :wink:

I think peoples problem with this particular rule is the nuance that goes against a humans liking for patterns.
We like to go 0, 15, 30, 45 all in even increments, and at 6 hours that gets a bit fuzzy with the pattern and it’s trigger points.
Hence why I tried to explain it where the 15 minute increment pattern stays, and everything behaves…

The bit I was worried about getting decapitation on, was that exactly happens at 6 hours dead?
Say you work 6 hours dead? Do you then take a 15 which takes you in to 6-9 hours, and then need another 15 because your now in a new block?
As then you get in to whether you can finish your shift with a break?

It all gets a bit silly and pointless, as you’re never going to do a 6 hours dead shift…
It’s just there are some cantankerous members on here, me being one of em! :laughing:

If you have a 15 minute break at exactly 6 hours working time (say at 10:00) you will need another 15 minute break 16:15, 6 hours after the last break ended.

You don’t need 30 minutes break before going over 9 hours unless that’s your total working time.

tachograph:
If you have a 15 minute break at exactly 6 hours working time (say at 10:00) you will need another 15 minute break 16:15, 6 hours after the last break ended.

You don’t need 30 minutes break before going over 9 hours unless that’s your total working time.

I obviously didn’t make it clear, as at bang on 6 hours I’m thinking about heading home! :smiley:
I know, unheard of… :laughing:

Evil8Beezle:
I think peoples problem with this particular rule is the nuance that goes against a humans liking for patterns.
We like to go 0, 15, 30, 45 all in even increments, and at 6 hours that gets a bit fuzzy with the pattern and it’s trigger points.
Hence why I tried to explain it where the 15 minute increment pattern stays, and everything behaves…

The bit I was worried about getting decapitation on, was that exactly happens at 6 hours dead?
Say you work 6 hours dead? Do you then take a 15 which takes you in to 6-9 hours, and then need another 15 because your now in a new block?
As then you get in to whether you can finish your shift with a break?

It all gets a bit silly and pointless, as you’re never going to do a 6 hours dead shift…
It’s just there are some cantankerous members on here, me being one of em! :laughing:

Like I said,it’s all in the wording…those pub lunches in Brussels must be a killer :laughing:
I must admit,though,Stella Artois can mess with your head :wink:

Baggie:

Evil8Beezle:
I think peoples problem with this particular rule is the nuance that goes against a humans liking for patterns.
We like to go 0, 15, 30, 45 all in even increments, and at 6 hours that gets a bit fuzzy with the pattern and it’s trigger points.
Hence why I tried to explain it where the 15 minute increment pattern stays, and everything behaves…

The bit I was worried about getting decapitation on, was that exactly happens at 6 hours dead?
Say you work 6 hours dead? Do you then take a 15 which takes you in to 6-9 hours, and then need another 15 because your now in a new block?
As then you get in to whether you can finish your shift with a break?

It all gets a bit silly and pointless, as you’re never going to do a 6 hours dead shift…
It’s just there are some cantankerous members on here, me being one of em! :laughing:

Like I said,it’s all in the wording…those pub lunches in Brussels must be a killer :laughing:
I must admit,though,Stella Artois can mess with your head :wink:

You’ll be beating the wife as well as prostitutes next! :stuck_out_tongue:

The wording and presentation in the official rules is somewhat dry, and reading all the guff that goes into the detail is probably tiresome for most. But I can also see that this presentation type really isn’t friendly to a large demographic as the wording is focused on legal precision, and as such I recommend those that struggle should go by this that muckles put together: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=134561

muckles:
Where I’ve been working I produced a basic guide to Drivers hours and WTD, for the other drivers as most were occasional drivers and were unclear on the regs.
I’d like to post it here, or even send a Word Doc to anybody who feels they’d be useful to them for reference when they’re driving. (when I started I had a copy of the rules from Headlight magazine, and found it very useful for reference. if you remember Headlight magazine then you’re getting on a bit :laughing:)

but before I do that I’d like some of the those who train drivers on Drivers Hours Regs or just understand them really well to check them first, to make sure I’ve not put in some howlers or maybe think of better ways to word them. I found it quite difficult to keep it simple an cover all the exceptions etc.

Basic Tachograph Rules.

Maximum Driving Hours:

• Driving before requiring a break, 4.5 hours
Daily driving, 9 hours, extended to 10 hours 2 times a week.
Weekly, 56 hours
Fortnightly, 90 hours.

Breaks, Rests, Duty times.

Minimum of 45 minutes break, before completing no more than 4.5 hours driving, can be split into a 15 minute and then 30 minute rest, but not the other way round.
Driving period is re-set after completion of a 45 minute break. (which means you can drive up to another 4.5 hours, if it doesn’t exceed your daily driving limit)
• You do not lose the remaining driving time if you complete a 45 minute break before doing 4.5 hours driving; it just re-sets the driving you can do before needing another 45 minute break to 4.5 hours, or whatever you have left of your daily driving limit.
Daily Rest 11 hours, can be reduced to no less than 9 hours 3 times between weekly rest periods.(The daily rest period must be completed within 24 hours from the start of the shift, any rest that falls outside of the 24 hour period does not count towards the daily rest period)
Maximum duty time13 hours, can be extended to 15 hours 3 between weekly rest periods. (A duty time of more than 13 hours is also considered to be a reduced Daily Rest)
Daily Rest can be split into 2 separate periods one must be of at least 9 hours and the other of at least 3 hours. (if done this way it’s not considered to be a reduced Daily Rest period)
Minimum Weekly Rest 45 hours, can be reduced to a minimum of 24 hours every other week, but the remainder of the hours have to be made up by the end of the 4th week following the reduction.
Maximum of 144 hours between weekly rest periods, (6 x 24 hours)

Double Manning:

• Drivers must have a 9 hours consecutive rest in a 30 hours period.
• Breaks can be taken when you are the Co-Driver, but Rest Periods cannot be taken in the truck whilst it’s moving.
• Therefore the maximum duty time is 21 hours.

Definitions:

Duty time, Is the time between 2 daily rest periods or a daily rest and a weekly rest.
Break, is a period of time when a driver is not doing any work, however it can be taken in a moving vehicle
Rest, is an uninterrupted period where a driver can freely dispose of his time.

Tachograph Modes:

Drive: Activated automatically when the vehicle moves
Other Work: Use to record all work activity, this includes Daily checks and Re-fuelling.
POA, Period of Availability used to record waiting times, when the duration of the wait is known,
Rest: Use to record Rest or Break Periods.

Analogue Tachographs:

Fill in all of the centre field of tachograph chart, the only optional information is Total Kms.
End date and location are required, even if they are the same as the start date and location
Use your full name, if your name doesn’t fit on front of the card then use initials and put your full name on reverse of the card.
If for any reason the Tachograph doesn’t work then write a manual entry on the rear of the card, with an explanation.
• You are also required to do an manual entry if you have been working away from the vehicle
Don’t leave the card in for more than 24 hours.
Hand in tachographs within 42 days of them being used.

Digital Tachographs:

Insert Driver Card into slot 1, Co-Driver into slot 2.
If you leave your card in the head during a Daily or Weekly rest, (as required in Europe for a continuous record) you must enter the start and end Country at the start and end of your Duty Time. (to do this go into menu, > Entry>Driver 1 (driver 2 if co-driver when double manning) >begin country (or end Country) and select the Country, Spain also has regions)
Download Digital tachograph within 28 days.
Most Digital Tachographs will Default to Other Work after the truck has been moved, so remember to use mode switch to put in on Rest (break) when required.

You are required to have on UK journeys:

All tachographs for the that day and previous 28 days you have driven a vehicle the has a tachograph
The driver’s digital Tachograph card (if you hold one, even if you haven’t used it)
Any Digital Tachograph printouts.
Manual entries showing start and finish times on tachographs (The DVSA agency will accept a record sheet, diary, time sheet) if you’ve not driven a vehicle with a tacho since the end of your last weekly break.

And also for European Journeys:

• Your driving licence,
• Fill in Vehicle Security form for the return journey. (use of this can reduce the possibility both the driver and company receiving a £2000 per person fine if stowaways are discovered on board a vehicle)
• A Continuous Record of Activities on your Tachographs. (this means you should show rest periods on your card by leaving it in the tacho head, no more than 24 hour for an analogue tacho)

Vehicle Checks

• Remember to do Daily Vehicle Checks.
• Time taken to do checks should be recorded as Other Work on the Tachograph
Report any defects on a Defect Report Form and hand it in. (The company is required to keep them for 15 months)
• Get Defects repaired before taking vehicle on the road

Running over Hours.

If due to unforeseen circumstances you run over your hours, write an explanation on the back of your Tachograph or on the back of a digital tachograph printout.
You can only legally run over your hours to get to a suitable parking place.
Unforeseen Circumstances are on road events you could not reasonably expect to plan for, such as delays caused by: Accidents, Bad Weather, Mechanical Breakdown, Interruption for Ferry Services

Working Time Directive

Average of 48 hours work a week
Maximum of 60 hours work in a week:
• A working week start at 00:00 Monday
Working time does not include; routine travel between home and their normal place of work. rest, breaks, Evening classes, day-release courses, Voluntary work or time spent as a Retained Fire Fighter, a Special Constable, or member of the Reserve Forces.
• Maximum of 10 hours work in a 24 hour period if doing night work.
• Any time worked between midnight and 4am is considered to be night work.
• Normal reference period 17 weeks,
Reference period and night working hours can be extended by workforce agreement
Statutory paid annual leave/sick leave cannot be used to reduce the average working time of a mobile worker. For each week of leave that is taken, 48 hours working time must be added to their working time; for each day’s leave, 8 hours must be added to working time.
Records must be kept for 2 years
• Those who do few than 11 days driving under EU drivers hours regulations in a 17 week reference period are exempt from the Road Transport (Working Time) Regulations. This is increase to less than 16 days if the reference period is extended to 26 weeks.
• Workers should not work more than 6 consecutive hours without taking a break.
• A minimum of 15 minutes break must be taken before exceeding 6 hours working time
If the daily working hours are between 6 to 9 hours then breaks totaling at least 30 minutes are required.
• Where working hours are more than 9 hours a day then breaks totaling a minimum of 45 minutes are required.
Breaks should be at least 15 minutes in duration.
• If breaks are taken to comply with drivers hours regulations then these will also count as breaks for the WTD.

Updated to include suggestions and to correct errors. :blush: Put in quotes to separate it from my waffling about Headlight magazine. :laughing: 04/02/15
Added Tachograph’s comment in brackets to Daily rest period Bullet point. 05/02/15

Evil8Beezle:
I think peoples problem with this particular rule is the nuance that goes against a humans liking for patterns.
We like to go 0, 15, 30, 45 all in even increments, and at 6 hours that gets a bit fuzzy with the pattern and it’s trigger points.
Hence why I tried to explain it where the 15 minute increment pattern stays, and everything behaves…

The bit I was worried about getting decapitation on, was that exactly happens at 6 hours dead?
Say you work 6 hours dead? Do you then take a 15 which takes you in to 6-9 hours, and then need another 15 because your now in a new block?
As then you get in to whether you can finish your shift with a break?

It all gets a bit silly and pointless, as you’re never going to do a 6 hours dead shift…
It’s just there are some cantankerous members on here, me being one of em! :laughing:

Its more to do with the ridiculous software that companies use.

Let’s put it this way, the DCPC is a VERY good idea

But it’s VERY bad executed!!!

It could be so good, it could be fantastic
But it’s a money making, time wasting nothing.

Make it a proper course with an exam on the end, if you not pass, than on your bike buster.
Make a similar “induction” program at the border for “visiting” drivers, so that there is no excuse to “not knowing the basics” :grimacing: :grimacing:

Think how easy it’s going to be when we revert to 12.5 hour spreadover!

Gidders:
Think how easy it’s going to be when we revert to 12.5 hour spreadover!

You really think that will happen?