No comment from CF…Bet I know what he and some others are thinking this time.
So, after delving into the figures from VAERS, at about 28min Campbell says how difficult the VAERS forms are to accurately fill in?
But ignoring that, I think an explanation of relative risk vs absolute risk, is missing here.
A five minute watch of Spiegelhalter, (Winton Professor Understanding of Risk)
The original question asked of Campbell:
Why aren``t MSM all over an increased risk (of a rare event)of Myocarditis after a Covid vaccine?
Because it is not large compared to the (much larger risk) of catching Covid if Not Vaccinated.
Vaccines will cause some injury and death. True.
In the UK about ten(?*) or so.
Deaths from Covid over 150,000…
Rare side effects should not be ignored, but they need to be examined objectively.
No comment from CF…Bet I know what he and some others are thinking this time.
So, after delving into the figures from VAERS, at about 28min Campbell says how difficult the VAERS forms are to accurately fill in?
But ignoring that, I think an explanation of relative risk vs absolute risk, is missing here.
A five minute watch of Spiegelhalter, (Winton Professor Understanding of Risk)
The original question asked of Campbell:
Why aren``t MSM all over an increased risk (of a rare event)of Myocarditis after a Covid vaccine?
Because it is not large compared to the (much larger risk) of catching Covid if Not Vaccinated.
Vaccines will cause some injury and death. True.
In the UK about ten(?*) or so.
Deaths from Covid over 150,000…
Rare side effects should not be ignored, but they need to be examined objectively.
Which all conveniently misses the question why the ‘need’ for unprecedented and experimental emergency licenced viral vector and mRNA technologies.
Why not just inject ‘attenuated’/disabled Coronavirus like any other vaccine.
I think I know the answer to that which is why on balance I’ve taken the shots in addition to the travel persuader.
Carryfast:
Which all conveniently misses the question why the ‘need’ for unprecedented and experimental emergency licenced viral vector and mRNA technologies.
To stop people dying?
Carryfast:
Why not just inject ‘attenuated’/disabled Coronavirus like any other vaccine.
mRNA techniques are “unprecedented” because they are new. They enable very clever “tailoring” of vaccines and much quicker upscaling of production.
When the C19 was recognised the first thought wree it would two or three years until a vaccine could be rolled out.
How many more would be dead if we all waited for the “old ways” to bear fruit?
Carryfast:
Which all conveniently misses the question why the ‘need’ for unprecedented and experimental emergency licenced viral vector and mRNA technologies.
To stop people dying?
Carryfast:
Why not just inject ‘attenuated’/disabled Coronavirus like any other vaccine.
mRNA techniques are “unprecedented” because they are new. They enable very clever “tailoring” of vaccines and much quicker upscaling of production.
When the C19 was recognised the first thought wree it would two or three years until a vaccine could be rolled out.
How many more would be dead if we all waited for the “old ways” to bear fruit?
Why and what evidence are you relying on which shows that it’s easier and quicker to make viral vector/mRNA Covid ‘vaccine’ than one just using the disabled virus.
Bearing in mind that both only need an experimental emergency licence which is actually what shortened the process.
Ironically I would have been less likely to have wanted to take the latter.
Carryfast:
Which all conveniently misses the question why the ‘need’ for unprecedented and experimental emergency licenced viral vector and mRNA technologies.
To stop people dying?
Carryfast:
Why not just inject ‘attenuated’/disabled Coronavirus like any other vaccine.
mRNA techniques are “unprecedented” because they are new. They enable very clever “tailoring” of vaccines and much quicker upscaling of production.
When the C19 was recognised the first thought wree it would two or three years until a vaccine could be rolled out.
How many more would be dead if we all waited for the “old ways” to bear fruit?
Why and what evidence are you relying on which shows that it’s easier and quicker to make viral vector/mRNA Covid ‘vaccine’ than one just using the disabled virus.
Bearing in mind that both only need an experimental emergency licence which is actually what shortened the process.
Ironically I would have been less likely to have wanted to take the latter.
How about the evidence that mRNA vaccines were here before conventional vaccines?
The fact they arrived first, suggests to me that they are quicker to develop and be approved.
Franglais:
mRNA vaccines were here before conventional vaccines?
The fact they arrived first, suggests to me that they are quicker to develop and be approved.
Exactly which vaccines for which virus were made using mRNA technology and when.
As opposed to ‘disabled’/‘attenuated’ virus or a different less lethal mimick like cow/small pox.
Bearing in mind experimental emergency licence.If mRNA was already established technology why the need for emergency licence and carte blanche of no responsibility on the manufacturers.
Franglais:
How about the evidence that mRNA vaccines were here before conventional vaccines?
The fact they arrived first, suggests to me that they are quicker to develop and be approved.
Still don’t see what all this has to do with daily covid testing.
Anyway, taking Pfizer-BioNTech and Oxford- AstraZenica as examples of early vaccines approved in the UK, the difference in approval (emergency) date was marginal and the difference may not necessarily have been through differences in development and approval requirements for viral vector and mRNA vaccines, but perhaps a team with the ability to cut through ‘red tape’ more effectively. Who knows? Not seeing anything substantial in evidence from Mr Franglais here. Guesswork?
The ability of the UK to cut through red tape more effectively did of course mean early roll-out of the vaccines compared to, for example, the EU, which was relying on the European Medicines Agency (EMA), which was quite slow off the mark by all accounts, dragging its heels particularly with regard to the Oxford-AstraZenica vaccine.
Franglais:
How about the evidence that mRNA vaccines were here before conventional vaccines?
The fact they arrived first, suggests to me that they are quicker to develop and be approved.
Still don’t see what all this has to do with daily covid testing.
Anyway, taking Pfizer-BioNTech and Oxford- AstraZenica as examples of early vaccines approved in the UK, the difference in approval (emergency) date was marginal and the difference may not necessarily have been through differences in development and approval requirements for viral vector and mRNA vaccines, but perhaps a team with the ability to cut through ‘red tape’ more effectively. Who knows? Not seeing anything substantial in evidence from Mr Franglais here. Guesswork?
The ability of the UK to cut through red tape more effectively did of course mean early roll-out of the vaccines compared to, for example, the EU, which was relying on the European Medicines Agency (EMA), which was quite slow off the mark by all accounts, dragging its heels particularly with regard to the Oxford-AstraZenica vaccine.
True, its not about daily testing, which seems to have disappeared as quickly as... but its still about Covid, so is more on theme than some threads.
Speed of roll-out?
Franglais:
fact they arrived first, suggests to me that they are quicker
I`ll stand by wot I rote.
And add this:
“By getting the human body to produce the viral proteins itself, mRNA vaccines cut out some of the manufacturing process and should be easier and quicker to produce than traditional vaccines. ‘In this situation, the major benefit is that it’s easy to produce (and) it will also probably be relatively easy to do an upscaling of production, which of course, is very important if you think about deployment throughout Europe and the world”
Prof. Bekeredjian-Ding, Paul Ehrlich Institut, Bonn.
Vaccine rollout UK vs EU?
Yes, the UK was first to approve the vaccine. It did so whilst we were still in the EU and did so under EU law. Other EU countries could have done the same. Some EU leaders really got it wrong.
Good call for Johnson on that. No argument.
Some claims about Brexit vs EU approval by some were “misleading” at best. fullfact.org/health/coronavirus-vaccine-brexit/
Franglais:
fact they arrived first, suggests to me that they are quicker
From where I’m standing the ability to upscale production is a separate concept to the time required to develop and approve. I noticed you quoted yourself out of context.
I don’t doubt that what you say about mRNA is true (way above my head so I don’t really have a choice but to accept what the Prof. says tbh). When the boffins decided to try different vaccine methods, finding one that works and was safe was probably higher on the agenda than relative rollout speeds (happy to be corrected). There are a few vaccines in plentiful supply and the indications are they are relatively safe (for now), so all good from my point of view. Rollout in the wider world is of course also a concern, so if faster production helps this, great.
From what I know these vaccine methods might even have some advantages over other methods. They seem to be able to given to most age groups and even those that are elderly or have underlying health conditions. Would live-attenuated or inactivated vaccines be better? Good question, I dunno. Was it even possible? I dunno. Many questions, all of which I don’t know the answers to because I drive a lorry. Ho hum.
I tend to periodically dip into this sh if only to sit in wonder and amazement at those intent in perpetuating it in the course of their utter obsession…both the thread and the ‘‘threat’’ of Covid.
I mean…17 pages ffs.
I dont follow the news on this as intently as some, mainly cos I ain’t too interested…
But am I right in saying that most and nearly all of the restrictions are being lifted in this country?
Is foreign travel not slowly getting back to normal?
Travel restrictions not being slowly lifted?
Is there not a message in there somewhere.■■ …or are you hanging on for dear life and sucking the last drop of juice out of this tedious (to most of us) subject
For the last 4 to 8 or so weekends I have been in crowded bars watching football, with mates,.and seeing the same groups of other people in the same bars every week.
At least one night a week while away in the truck,.I’ll.attend a pub in different areas having a meal.
I’ll meet many different people in the course of my job,.
I’ll mix with my little grand kids at weekends,.aware that Covid is in their schools.
I’ll mix with various members of my family,.who have in turn mixed with other numerous people in their jobs and walks of life.
I have never wore a mask for months, but granted I’ve had the jabs.
I can’t speak for other areas but around here there has not been a mass natural cull of those who dare to socialise again…and guess what?
Me and my inner circle of friends and family are all still alive to tell the tale…so far.
Can some of you not bear to accept the fact that life is not only going on, but getting back to some kind of virtual normality.
Methinks some have enjoyed this crap just a little too much, and can not bear to …LET IT GO.
No names btw, but you know who you are.
You and many others so I believe Rob. I am just glad I am not in England at the moment because as has been said this may be far from over. Don’t suppose you heard about the deer in NY having the virus Rob? Could be consequences there apart from daft humans of course. Boris included.
In Scotland it is still mandatory to wear masks in shops,public transport etc and from what I hear most still adhere. Here in Holland it’s the usual mixture of anti this anti that and the ones who are willing to help stop the spread and help the stressed medical staff!
Anyway my wife tested positive this morning. My daughter was out for a meal with someone who had a positive test so had to get a PCR which has come back negative!!!
I did a LF test after my wife’s result and it was negative. This afternoon we both went and got PCR tests so we will know soon the real results.
jakethesnake:
You and many others so I believe Rob. I am just glad I am not in England at the moment because as has been said this may be far from over. Don’t suppose you heard about the deer in NY having the virus Rob? Could be consequences there apart from daft humans of course. Boris included.
In Scotland it is still mandatory to wear masks in shops,public transport etc and from what I hear most still adhere. Here in Holland it’s the usual mixture of anti this anti that and the ones who are willing to help stop the spread and help the stressed medical staff!
Anyway my wife tested positive this morning. My daughter was out for a meal with someone who had a positive test so had to get a PCR which has come back negative!!!
I did a LF test after my wife’s result and it was negative. This afternoon we both went and got PCR tests so we will know soon the real results.
Hope your wife is ok Jake…I mean that btw.
I’d take solace in the fact that despite what we are told, the vast majority come out of it ok, suffering nothing more than the symptoms of the dreaded ‘F’ word on here that is banned on this particular thread by some. (No not THAT one ,.I was referring to ‘‘FLU’’)
No I knew nothing about the deer, as I said I don’t intently listen to the latest news on all this stuff, I’ve got far too much going on to bother my arse…but if it’s Bambi’s Mam or Dad, I hope they’re ok also. …was it wearing a mask btw??
If they are reporting an unhealthy deer maybe it illustrates the fact that we now have low news days on Covid issues these days.
Hey! …maybe Franglais should be come a covid news anchor
Franglais:
"By getting the human body to produce the viral proteins itself, mRNA vaccines cut out some of the manufacturing process and should be easier and quicker to produce than traditional vaccines.
How so when everything you need is already there contained in the disabled/attenuated virus.
By that logic the ‘traditional’ vaccine is easier to produce.
Franglais:
"By getting the human body to produce the viral proteins itself, mRNA vaccines cut out some of the manufacturing process and should be easier and quicker to produce than traditional vaccines.
How so when everything you need is already there contained in the disabled/attenuated virus.
By that logic the ‘traditional’ vaccine is easier to produce.
If you scroll up you`ll (hopefully) notice that I used “quote” marks. I suggest you search for the Prof who made that statement.
Franglais:
Speed of roll-out?
Franglais:
fact they arrived first, suggests to me that they are quicker
I`ll stand by wot I rote.
And add this:
“By getting the human body to produce the viral proteins itself, mRNA vaccines cut out some of the manufacturing process and should be easier and quicker to produce than traditional vaccines. ‘In this situation, the major benefit is that it’s easy to produce (and) it will also probably be relatively easy to do an upscaling of production, which of course, is very important if you think about deployment throughout Europe and the world”
Prof. Bekeredjian-Ding, Paul Ehrlich Institut, Bonn.
Carryfast:
Franglais:
"By getting the human body to produce the viral proteins itself, mRNA vaccines cut out some of the manufacturing process and should be easier and quicker to produce than traditional vaccines."Prof. Bekeredjian-Ding,
How so when everything you need is already there contained in the disabled/attenuated virus.
By that logic the ‘traditional’ vaccine is easier to produce.
Shhhhhh everybody…Frangers has finally found someone with a similar interest, and being that it’s CF this could go on for a ■■■■ while , and they may just forget about the rest of us…shhhhhh. now.
Just takes Winseer to rock up and add to it, and it’ll be the ultimate Boreathon.
I love this forum.
well i spent last Friday night/Saturday morning in a busy Leicester R.I. A&E Dept…and not one mention of the dreaded ‘C’ word or the ‘V’ word
all i was asked was if i’d recently returned from another Country,and that was it.none of the doctor’s who assessed/examined me did either…so glad it’s being kept alive on here
With over 440 posts on Covid, and your 54 posts on this thread alone, it is very obvious where your interests lie.
Yep you’ve turned me …I’ve become your ‘Covid Disciple’ mate.
Can’t believe you took the time to scroll through 17 pages to count my posts though .think of the extra research you could have been doing in that time to save us all.
Btw how many of the 54 were just there aimed at you in a ‘Robbie Burns’ type attempt to point something out to you in a friendly way?
( '‘If we could see ourselves’ etc etc .)
Franglais:
How about the evidence that mRNA vaccines were here before conventional vaccines?
The fact they arrived first, suggests to me that they are quicker to develop and be approved.
Franglais:
fact they arrived first, suggests to me that they are quicker
The two quotes above are different. The original specifies more specific information, which you later exclude from your quote and you seem to want to change the meaning of what you said by doing so. It actually looks deliberate because you realised your mistaken claim after the event and tried to justify it in a different way.
I again say that the ability to upscale production is a different concept to the time required to develop and approve. Why don’t you just say: ‘my original quote wasn’t what I meant’, rather than taking out the context to try to give it different meaning?
I appreciate that posts can be made quickly without thinking through properly and the full quote might not have been what you meant, but it is what you wrote. Consider that not everyone reads through the full thread and may not have read all your previous posts (or remember them).
The thread is like an itch that one can’t help scratching (you bring it to the top of the board every other day). Of course similar threads have been moved because the forum is transport related and you are only getting away with this by posting off-topic.
…or are you hanging on for dear life and sucking the last drop of juice out of this tedious (to most of us) subject
Boris included. 
,.I was referring to ‘‘FLU’’)
.think of the extra research you could have been doing in that time to save us all.