Sidevalve:
According to some pointy shoe’d twerp with a logistics degree, though, it was in order to comply with DVSA best practice.
I
Maybe it used to be best practice.
It is now a legal requirement to record those hours in one of 3 different ways including that one.
“When a tachograph is not available to record data in real time, the only permitted methods for drivers to make a manual entry are to:
make a manual entry on an analogue tachograph record sheet
make a manual entry on digital printout paper
retrospectively use the manual input facility on a digital tachograph when the card is next inserted”
Sidevalve:
According to some pointy shoe’d twerp with a logistics degree, though, it was in order to comply with DVSA best practice.
I
Maybe it used to be best practice.
It is now a legal requirement to record those hours in one of 3 different ways including that one.
“When a tachograph is not available to record data in real time, the only permitted methods for drivers to make a manual entry are to:
make a manual entry on an analogue tachograph record sheet
make a manual entry on digital printout paper
retrospectively use the manual input facility on a digital tachograph when the card is next inserted”
Yes, I’m aware of that. I am minded to think though that this might soon be amended, since it’s fairly obvious to anyone, even DVSA, that the number of working HGV’s which still use analogue tachographs must by now be well below five per cent of the national fleet, and lack of demand will eventually cause cessation of supply for paper discs.
WheelsofCardiff:
I wouldn’t fill in the Saturday or Sunday section. Just take it to the office and tell them to sign it in. It’s daily checks how can you sign when you are not in. If the DVSA were to come on a Saturday how will they explain it.
Im with you on this one. A DAILY check sheet should be filled in on a daily basis showing what checks you have done. If you aint in on a weekend then why the demand by pointy shoe that it has to be filled in?
Its time to fight back against the stupidity that has invaded our work places. Refuse to do pointless tasks and explain why they are pointless. They cant sack us all!
Dunky123:
Hi guys, the company I work for have decided, that as well as filling in our check books for Monday to Friday, they now want us to fill them in for Saturday and Sunday when we don’t work.
Apparently they want us to fill in name and registration number and then put “vehicle not used” but put the Saturday and Sunday date on it.
As we won’t be doing it on the date we are putting on the page, could this be classified as falsified records, or am I wildly over thinking this?
Have you recently gotten a new TM perhaps?
Like others have said, sign it on a Monday and include the “not by me” caveat.
Juddian:
^^^ quite, got to hand it to the pointless twerp though coming up with that one, maybe he/she/it/they/them could dream up something even more ridiculous once enough halucinatory products have been absorbed
It’s like the H&S rules.
Surely to [zb] they must be running out of ideas by now.
Sidevalve:
According to some pointy shoe’d twerp with a logistics degree, though, it was in order to comply with DVSA best practice.
I
Maybe it used to be best practice.
It is now a legal requirement to record those hours in one of 3 different ways including that one.
“When a tachograph is not available to record data in real time, the only permitted methods for drivers to make a manual entry are to:
make a manual entry on an analogue tachograph record sheet
make a manual entry on digital printout paper
retrospectively use the manual input facility on a digital tachograph when the card is next inserted”
Yes, I’m aware of that. I am minded to think though that this might soon be amended, since it’s fairly obvious to anyone, even DVSA, that the number of working HGV’s which still use analogue tachographs must by now be well below five per cent of the national fleet, and lack of demand will eventually cause cessation of supply for paper discs.
Plentiful supply of tacho roll though.
Easier for a plod to read a standardised form on the back of a tacho-roll than someones flowing copperplate script, or scrawl (like mine) on a grubby scrap of paper. Yes, many will use perfectly neat notebooks with clear entries, but the rules arent there because of them, the rules are to sharpen up the ■■■■-takers, so we all have to pay for them.
Terry T:
We’ve been told at Royal Mail now we must show at least 21 minutes of other work before we leave the yard and that it can only be interrupted a certain amount of times and for a certain amount of minutes and it goes into detail about what excuses you can use to interrupt it etc etc blah blah. I’ll take a pic of the sheet when I next see it.
Aye, Royal Mail, big company so zero tolerance on anything they fancy: “Cos I said so, that’s why…” Still, if you’re getting paid for it, I don’t see any real problem.
Massive company, shed-loads of drivers, not an easy task for their TMs, I prefer small scale where I know all my drivers personally.
Why 21 minutes though? There is zero logic to that, I imagine it’s one of those daft ideas that starts as a comment and then grows not just legs, but wings, next thing you know it’s some kind of “law”, like the stupidity over “recording sickness and holidays on your tacho” - no, you just need to record that you were on rest and not at work
msgyorkie:
Its time to fight back against the stupidity that has invaded our work places. Refuse to do pointless tasks and explain why they are pointless. They cant sack us all!
No, just the ones that want to dig their heels in over something that takes two minutes of their time.
As daft as the idea is, if they’re paying you for your time, what’s the problem? “Daft” is not synonymous with “unreasonable”. If drivers want to ‘fight back’ they need to be unionised, and even then the union wouldn’t back you over something as trivial as this.
Dunky123:
Hi guys, the company I work for have decided, that as well as filling in our check books for Monday to Friday, they now want us to fill them in for Saturday and Sunday when we don’t work.
Apparently they want us to fill in name and registration number and then put “vehicle not used” but put the Saturday and Sunday date on it.
As we won’t be doing it on the date we are putting on the page, could this be classified as falsified records, or am I wildly over thinking this?
Have you recently gotten a new TM perhaps?
Like others have said, sign it on a Monday and include the “not by me” caveat.
Hi, no we’ve recently been taken over by a well known Welsh builders merchant, who seem to be changing a few things that never needed changing.
I’ve already said that , the fact the finishing mileage on a Friday will be the same as the starting mileage on a Monday (or Tuesday this week) proves the vehicle hasn’t been used but hey ho.
To play nice I will fill in the weekend check sheets but date them for the actual date they were done.
Late on Friday they announced another new one, when we get a tyre changed we must hand the fitter a form to fill in to confirm he has done the re torquing properly, including when we don’t wait the extra half hour for the re torque, then the fitter that does it after 60-100 miles needs to fill in our form as well as the torque tag that they use.
All fun and games and we’ve been told there is no chance of a wage rise this year.
Starting to look for another job
Dunky
Sidevalve:
Yes, I’m aware of that. I am minded to think though that this might soon be amended, since it’s fairly obvious to anyone, even DVSA, that the number of working HGV’s which still use analogue tachographs must by now be well below five per cent of the national fleet, and lack of demand will eventually cause cessation of supply for paper discs.
Plentiful supply of tacho roll though.
Easier for a plod to read a standardised form on the back of a tacho-roll than someones flowing copperplate script, or scrawl (like mine) on a grubby scrap of paper. Yes, many will use perfectly neat notebooks with clear entries, but the rules arent there because of them, the rules are to sharpen up the ■■■■-takers, so we all have to pay for them.
Wasn’t thinking that so much as an app or similar, the more to benefit office-based staff like the trainer I mentioned. Since I drive full time it’s of no importance to me, I just do a manual entry on a Monday morning to cover my weekend rest, ditto every morning in fact since even though I’m a tramper I always eject my card every night.
If we’re going to have this progress we need the proper tools to do it with. I don’t mind the actual record-keeping and can understand the logic behind it; but if occasional office-based drivers are going to have to prat about keeping a roll of printout paper in their desk and tear a bit off every week, it seems to me we’re going backwards not forwards.
Sidevalve:
Yes, I’m aware of that. I am minded to think though that this might soon be amended, since it’s fairly obvious to anyone, even DVSA, that the number of working HGV’s which still use analogue tachographs must by now be well below five per cent of the national fleet, and lack of demand will eventually cause cessation of supply for paper discs.
Plentiful supply of tacho roll though.
Easier for a plod to read a standardised form on the back of a tacho-roll than someones flowing copperplate script, or scrawl (like mine) on a grubby scrap of paper. Yes, many will use perfectly neat notebooks with clear entries, but the rules arent there because of them, the rules are to sharpen up the ■■■■-takers, so we all have to pay for them.
Wasn’t thinking that so much as an app or similar, the more to benefit office-based staff like the trainer I mentioned. Since I drive full time it’s of no importance to me, I just do a manual entry on a Monday morning to cover my weekend rest, ditto every morning in fact since even though I’m a tramper I always eject my card every night.
If we’re going to have this progress we need the proper tools to do it with. I don’t mind the actual record-keeping and can understand the logic behind it; but if occasional office-based drivers are going to have to prat about keeping a roll of printout paper in their desk and tear a bit off every week, it seems to me we’re going backwards not forwards.
You`re making a good point IMHO.
You can use a tacho in a spare vehicle bto put the info on your driver card, but the interface isnt well suited to making multiple daily entries. Easy enough to record rest from last use to "now", with maybe ten minutes of duty, but to input multiple days with breaks and rests, isnt so easy. Asking for an error that needs paper to correct it.
As you say some sort of device that can put info onto your tacho card? Rather than one that just reads it?
Sounds good to me.
While we’re on the subject of daily checks, does everyone continue to report an existing defect every day? For instance, I’ve got a small stone chip in the windscreen on the passenger side. Reported it on our app. I’m now reporting it every day as it’s obviously still there. But in the past I’ve had phone calls for other stuff to say “yes, we’ve seen it - stop reporting it” ? But surely if I don’t report it, I’m saying it’s now repaired. Or is reporting it once considered job done?
Late on Friday they announced another new one, when we get a tyre changed we must hand the fitter a form to fill in to confirm he has done the re torquing properly, including when we don’t wait the extra half hour for the re torque, then the fitter that does it after 60-100 miles needs to fill in our form as well as the torque tag that they use.
when this sh#te started years ago and i told a fitter we would have to wait 30 min for a retorque the answer i ALWAYS got was f#ck off ive got another job to go to , this would result in me jumping up and down stamping my feet and crying while i phoned my mum for advice , her advice was always ’ grow a pair you snivelling little b#stard ’ .
grumpybum:
While we’re on the subject of daily checks, does everyone continue to report an existing defect every day? For instance, I’ve got a small stone chip in the windscreen on the passenger side. Reported it on our app. I’m now reporting it every day as it’s obviously still there. But in the past I’ve had phone calls for other stuff to say “yes, we’ve seen it - stop reporting it” ? But surely if I don’t report it, I’m saying it’s now repaired. Or is reporting it once considered job done?
Unless it’s VOR I rarely make out a defect. If all looks serviceable we’re good to go
Suppose it differs from firm to firm with processes.
grumpybum:
While we’re on the subject of daily checks, does everyone continue to report an existing defect every day? For instance, I’ve got a small stone chip in the windscreen on the passenger side. Reported it on our app. I’m now reporting it every day as it’s obviously still there. But in the past I’ve had phone calls for other stuff to say “yes, we’ve seen it - stop reporting it” ? But surely if I don’t report it, I’m saying it’s now repaired. Or is reporting it once considered job done?
Devil or the deep blue sea isn’t it; where exactly is that fine line between being a conscientious driver following the rules and a whinging PITA who moans about every paint scratch? If, as md1987 says, it’s a VOR defect then we shouldn’t be using that vehicle or trailer anyway; but what about a yellow ABS light on a trailer used only for local shunting between two adjacent estates, when you know the garage is waiting for the part to come in? Take it and technically break the law, or refuse and ■■■■ the boss off?
You can use a tacho in a spare vehicle bto put the info on your driver card, but the interface isnt well suited to making multiple daily entries. Easy enough to record rest from last use to "now", with maybe ten minutes of duty, but to input multiple days with breaks and rests, isnt so easy. Asking for an error that needs paper to correct it.
As you say some sort of device that can put info onto your tacho card? Rather than one that just reads it?
Sounds good to me.
Precisely; what effectively amounts to a digital log book. As you say, you can use a tacho head in a spare vehicle, but often nowadays there isn’t one, or perhaps you’re doing office stuff away from base. It could all be interfaced with DVSA quite easily I suspect; might well be of huge benefit to part time agency drivers too, not only to encourage more of them to return but also reduce the chances of accidental or even deliberate breach of rules.
Dunky123:
Late on Friday they announced another new one, when we get a tyre changed we must hand the fitter a form to fill in to confirm he has done the re torquing properly, including when we don’t wait the extra half hour for the re torque, then the fitter that does it after 60-100 miles needs to fill in our form as well as the torque tag that they use.
Nothing too weird about that, anyone doing an audit on the company will be all over that like a rash. I tell my drivers to wait for the 30 minute retorque, saves them faffing on later with the torque wrench. Tyre management is a big issue these days
grumpybum:
Reported it on our app. I’m now reporting it every day as it’s obviously still there. But in the past I’ve had phone calls for other stuff to say “yes, we’ve seen it - stop reporting it” ? But surely if I don’t report it, I’m saying it’s now repaired. Or is reporting it once considered job done?
No, keep reporting it until they get it fixed, there’s only one proper response to them saying “stop reporting it” and that’s “I’ll stop reporting it when it’s been fixed”. All drivers need to cover their butts and have stuff written down on the defect sheets in case they get stopped.
Zac_A:
All drivers need to cover their butts and have stuff written down on the defect sheets in case they get stopped.
Absolutely, 100%.
We drivers are there to do the job correctly…hopefully…
If the office and/or workshop are doing their jobs correctly, then there is no need for us to cover up their failings.
Sorry why would you fill in a daily defect form/sheet/ book/ app for the 2 days your not at work ? It makes absolutely no sence . If they must, fill one in when you finish up just before you step out for your weekend break and do another for when you return after weekend break but theres no way I’d be filling a defect sheet for any day I wasn’t on site / in truck .
What happens if you’ve filled in 2 defect sheets on a Friday to cover Saturday and Sunday and someone for instance reverses a trailer into the truck on the Saturday? Do you then get hauled to the office for a improper defect sheet on the Sunday?
Nope , not on my watch , only do defect sheets for the then and now . If management want defect sheets for the days your not there tell them to come on in to the yard and do them themselves - that way they get accurate reporting of damage by doing it themselves . If they won’t do it then why should you ?
Or is reporting it once considered job done?
, this would result in me jumping up and down stamping my feet and crying while i phoned my mum for advice , her advice was always ’ grow a pair you snivelling little b#stard ’ . 