D G N

ASK THE EXPERTS SAFETY, LAW AND WORKING TIME DIRECTIVE FORUM (INTE
1

thought i would adk my question on this thread as it is related to this.

6 drums of toxic 6.1 has been sent from Germany to the uk. It had all the DGN with it and other stuff when it arrived in the uk.
It was then transported to the main transport hub (example DHL) then forwarded to the local depot.
It was loaded onto my truck but the DGN and other paperwork vanished… all that was given to me was a delivery sheet. It had the UN number, class, tunnel code, packing group etc…written on the sheet.

I have refused to take this as the DGN is missing. However, boses say that as long as delivery note has all info on it what product is etc then its fine to deliver.

If the delivery note has all the info, but the DGN is missing am I right or wrong in refusing to deliver this?

2

stevenwignet:
thought i would adk my question on this thread as it is related to this.

6 drums of toxic 6.1 has been sent from Germany to the uk. It had all the DGN with it and other stuff when it arrived in the uk.
It was then transported to the main transport hub (example DHL) then forwarded to the local depot.
It was loaded onto my truck but the DGN and other paperwork vanished… all that was given to me was a delivery sheet. It had the UN number, class, tunnel code, packing group etc…written on the sheet.

I have refused to take this as the DGN is missing. However, boses say that as long as delivery note has all info on it what product is etc then its fine to deliver.

If the delivery note has all the info, but the DGN is missing am I right or wrong in refusing to deliver this?

Hi stevenwignet,

Sorry mate, but from the info you’ve given, I can’t see why you refused to take the load, nor can I see why the DGN did not accompany the goods all the way to the final destination.

It is the carrier’s (the owner of the vehicle) responsibility to ensure that the correct documentation is on board the vehicle. If you are stop-checked and it’s found that a DGN should be on board the vehicle, it will then be between the sender and the carrier to achieve compliance.

Sometimes, it’s possible to deliver the final part of a multi-modal journey without needing a DGN to accompany the goods. This will depend on the contents of the transport contract, which isn’t usually known to an employed driver.

3

Dieseldave can you take a haz load on the road without having the dgn as long as you have a list of un no;s and your instructions in wrighting
we have been told that it is ok to do this and our company will send the dgn to the company we are delivering to by fax or e’mail
thanks for your help on this matter and my previouse question

4

fez:
Dieseldave can you take a haz load on the road without having the dgn as long as you have a list of un no;s and your instructions in wrighting
we have been told that it is ok to do this and our company will send the dgn to the company we are delivering to by fax or e’mail
thanks for your help on this matter and my previouse question

I believe Dave is teaching at the moment and I have discovered some info for you from here.

sitpro.org.uk/trade/dangerous.html

Dangerous goods transported solely within the United Kingdom are subject to the provisions of ADR /RID or the IMDG Code as appropriate. Thus the carrier is required to ensure that a transport document accompanies the consignment of most dangerous goods and it is the duty of the consignor to ensure that it is made available. Further the consignor and carrier are required to keep a written record of the information contained within the transport document and to retain it for 3 months (for road/rail journeys immediately and for sea journeys from 2012).

The Dangerous Goods Note (DGN) is used to accompany hazardous goods in transit to the docks, a forwarder or an ICD (Inland Clearance Depot). It is used to convey information about a shipment to a carrier, receiving authority, forwarder, etc. The DGN can be used as a pre-shipment advice when using the Customs simplified clearance system. It is important that all the required information is entered onto the form.

5

fez:
Dieseldave can you take a haz load on the road without having the dgn as long as you have a list of un no;s and your instructions in wrighting
we have been told that it is ok to do this and our company will send the dgn to the company we are delivering to by fax or e’mail
thanks for your help on this matter and my previouse question

Hi fez

When you mention a DGN, are you talking about carriage involving a road/sea journey please?

You mentioned “on the road,” so I’ll carry on with what ADR says on the subjects of your question.

Regarding fax and/or email, ADR says this:

The use of electronic data processing (EDP) or electronic data interchange (EDI)
techniques as an aid to or instead of paper documentation is permitted, provided that the
procedures used for the capture, storage and processing of electronics data meet the legal
requirements as regards the evidential value and availability of data during transport in a
manner at least equivalent to that of paper documentation.

Either way up, I’m sorry mate but just “a list of UN numbers” certainly won’t be good enough.

ADR uses the words “transport document” (not DGN) and the requirements are as follows:
UN number, Proper Shipping Name, Class, Packing Group (if applicable) and tunnel code (if applicable.)
[The items written in bold (above) MUST be written in exactly that order.]
Number and type(s) of packages,
Quantity of dangerous goods as a volume or as a gross mass, or as a net mass as appropriate,
The names and addresses of the consignor and consignee.
Depending on the particular substance(s) being carried, other information may be required to be entered on the transport document.

For a UK journey carrying quantities of dangerous goods less than the ADR threshold, a transport document is not necessary.

There are also some variables, and documentation is such a serious subject that I have to admit some surprise that your DGSA has left your office staff unclear on what’s what. According to the VOSA Enforcement Sanctions Policy, the lack of a correct transport document will be rewarded with a PN (Prohibition Notice.) :open_mouth:

I’ll wait for your answer to my question, because if it’s a road/sea journey then the goalposts move a bit cos a (multi-modal) DGN is a bit more detailed than an ordinary ADR transport document. :smiley:

6

Wheel Nut:
I believe Dave is teaching at the moment and I have discovered some info for you from here.

http://www.sitpro.org.uk/trade/dangerous.html

Hi Malc, you believed correctly. :smiley:

Dangerous goods transported solely within the United Kingdom are subject to the provisions of ADR /RID or the IMDG Code as appropriate. Thus the carrier is required to ensure that a transport document accompanies the consignment of most dangerous goods and it is the duty of the consignor to ensure that it is made available. Further the consignor and carrier are required to keep a written record of the information contained within the transport document and to retain it for 3 months (for road/rail journeys immediately and for sea journeys from 2012).

I feel that the “as appropriate” needs a little clarification…
1.) There are some differences between UK Regs (CDG) and ADR when it comes to a UK domestic journey.
2.) A UK domestic road journey involving the carriage of dangerous goods in packages in quantities lower than the ADR threshold quantities doesn’t require the use of an ADR transport document.

The Dangerous Goods Note (DGN) is used to accompany hazardous goods in transit to the docks, a forwarder or an ICD (Inland Clearance Depot). It is used to convey information about a shipment to a carrier, receiving authority, forwarder, etc. The DGN can be used as a pre-shipment advice when using the Customs simplified clearance system. It is important that all the required information is entered onto the form.

A clarification of this is needed too…
It would be better to use the phrase “multi-modal DGN” because more than one set of dangerous goods (modal) Regs are being used for the journey. Eg a (multi-modal) road/sea journey uses ADR/IMDG.

As I mentioned to fez, if the journey is by road only and within the UK, then the required ADR transport document isn’t required to be anywhere near as complicated as a ‘proper’ DGN. :smiley:
Then, if carriage is UK only and less than ADR threshold, you don’t need a transport document of any kind.

7

my question was a bit confusing if we pick a haz box out of the dock can we run back to our yard without the dgn transport document as long as we know what is loaded in the box so far i allways refuse and get a copy sent to a location close to the dock before i collect it am i right to do this or could i run without any paper work thanks for your help

8

fez:
my question was a bit confusing if we pick a haz box out of the dock can we run back to our yard without the dgn transport document as long as we know what is loaded in the box

Hi fez,
Thanks for the clarification… but,
You say that you know what is in the box, so how do you know this??

My posts above should answer your question, but PLEASE be aware that you’re seriously deficient in paperwork and therefore you could attract a PN. WADR mate, you should explain this to your boss, and your boss should be asking some searchingly serious questions of your company’s DGSA for leaving the firm in a potentially serious position with the enforcement authorities.
Does your firm have a properly qualified DGSA that you could ask, and have you been given contact details for this person??

fez:
so far i allways refuse and get a copy sent to a location close to the dock before i collect it am i right to do this or could i run without any paper work thanks for your help

You’re quite right to always refuse in the way that you mentioned, but your boss really shouldn’t be allowing you to be put in this position in the first place. :unamused:

:open_mouth: Why can’t the shipping company simply give you the correct paperwork when you collect the box from the dock?? (It’s not rocket science :grimacing: )
Now I know that it’s all about collecting boxes from the dock, I would expect that you could be given the multi-modal DGN (or at least a photocopy) that had to accompany the box onto the ship under IMDG Regs. :wink:
Are the shipping company expecting you to believe that the correct documents always get lost between ship and shore??

To put this in a simple way, if you’re carrying dangerous goods in a box that you collected from the dock, then you need either an ADR transport document or a DGN with at least the information that I mentioned in my first answer to your question.
The responsibility for providing a transport document rests with the people who asked you to carry the box, even if the request is on behalf of somebody else then your boss also has a joint responsibility to ensure that you have said paperwork in an acceptable form. :smiley:

I hope this helps. :smiley:

9

we have a office about 1/2 a mile from the dock and i always collect my notes from there first but sometimes this office is closed so i was just wondering if i still could run if i hadn’t managed to get the notes i will carry on doing it the way i have allways done thanks for all your help dieseldave and all the other members that have gave advice thankyou