Roymondo:
S25 PACE Act has of course been superseded by S110 SOC and Police Act 2005, but the same general power of arrest for any offence (not just those recorded as crimes under Home Office counting rules, or those involving motor vehicles, vehicles of any sort, or any other arbitrary restriction you care to put on it) applies…etc
What I read in Winseer’s comment is not that sections or subsections of the law deprive Police of their right to arrest - which you have definitely again taken out of context, but my reading is that Winseer is pointing to the practical impossibility of Police Officers taking action against offending cyclists because in reality it is impossible to confirm their identity… & my2p… especially if they ride off!
If the police did start to take the actions you mention under whatever section you quote, there would need to be lots more cops - as Winseer pointed out at point “(1) There are not enough police”
Needless to say, there are not enough facilities either.
In short, by the time you have taken the appropriate advice to decide if or not a cyclist has committed an offence… specific to his or her use of their vehicle on the public highway… just to get their name - hell will have frozen over.
Wouldn’t relish the job of explaining the blunder of false arrest to the beak because a cyclist committed a minor traffic offence or endangered themselves.
Naturally, most the cyclist would expect is a caution - telling off or advice… unless they have committed an offence against property or person.
Roymondo:
S25 PACE Act has of course been superseded by S110 SOC and Police Act 2005, but the same general power of arrest for any offence (not just those recorded as crimes under Home Office counting rules, or those involving motor vehicles, vehicles of any sort, or any other arbitrary restriction you care to put on it) applies…etc
What I read in Winseer’s comment is not that sections or subsections of the law deprive Police of their right to arrest - which you have definitely again taken out of context, but my reading is that Winseer is pointing to the practical impossibility of Police Officers taking action against offending cyclists because in reality it is impossible to confirm their identity… & my2p… especially if they ride off!
If the police did start to take the actions you mention under whatever section you quote, there would need to be lots more cops - as Winseer pointed out at point “(1) There are not enough police”
Needless to say, there are not enough facilities either.
In short, by the time you have taken the appropriate advice to decide if or not a cyclist has committed an offence… specific to his or her use of their vehicle on the public highway… just to get their name - hell will have frozen over.
Wouldn’t relish the job of explaining the blunder of false arrest to the beak because a cyclist committed a minor traffic offence or endangered themselves.
Naturally, most the cyclist would expect is a caution - telling off or advice… unless they have committed an offence against property or person.
I’m not taking anything out of context, nor am I saying that Police are being deprived of any “right to arrest” (whatever one of those is). I don’t know what “facilities” would be required to exercise the powers of arrest anyway - Whenever I used S25 PACE Act when dealing with someone for a minor offence on the street, production of some form of ID would generally follow within a few seconds of the arrest (even though they claimed not to be carrying any…). As the arrest was no longer necessary (name and address now ascertained), they would then be released (or “de-arrested” as it was called) and would be reported for summons in the normal way. I never found myself needing to “take advice” as to what offences had been committed any more than I would have done had they been driving a motor vehicle.
Yes, of course errant drivers/riders/pedestrians can be given “verbal warnings” (a Caution is a totally different animal legally speaking) for minor offences - But absence of some form of ID is not a reason for no prosecution action being taken. Which is the point I am apparently failing dismally to make here.
Paucity of officer numbers on the ground is of course a significant factor in all road users being able to get away with stuff - whether they be on a bicycle or in a 44 tonne truck. In fact the one thing that does make cyclists much less liable to prosecution was not mentioned by Winseer - and that’s the absence of visible number plates.
Radar19:
In traffic I sit really close to the curb so they can’t get passed.
But do agree with that
In fairness to them … I wish I had a sign at the end of my tail of my 30 tonner that said to the ones who wait there "Thank you cyclist for behaving responsibly ! "
rob22888:
You are aware that it isn’t possible to get to every destination in the UK solely via motorway?
Yourself and the rest of the posters on this forum should also be aware that I can’t ride to where I want my final destination to be, soley by cycle paths alone.
chester:
rob22888:
‘juggernaught’, ‘whilst driving my Citroen 2cv’
NIMBY alert! Do you write to the local paper with your complaints & organise community meetings about the pesky lorries ‘thundering’ down your local lanes?
Hell fire, you sound a bit of a irate chap. You didn’t recently drive a lorry of flour in Scotland and recently lost your job have you?
You do know that many road users share the roads with you and I?
You have made an assumption about my character based on very little here. Compared to a lot of drivers on here, I like to think I have a pretty responsible attitude towards cyclists. They don’t bother me, I don’t let them, I give them plenty of room. I appreciate the fact provisions for cyclists on the roads are largely inadequate and thus don’t complain about cyclists being on the road and you won’t see me winding down my window like some other muppets telling them to “get on the cycle path”.
I was merely picking up on your nonsensical suggestion that trucks are needlessly holding you up on your outings down country lanes because they should be on the motorway instead. Exactly the kind of speil we hear from the largely clueless anti-truck brigade you find in local newspaper letter pages & website comment sections who seem to think they know how we should be doing our job.
If i’m on an A or B road its because i’m going somewhere & the motorway option either a) isn’t there, b) is closed/congested or c) is unreasonably longer. Not only that HGVs have a right to use whichever unrestricted road they please; we share the road with you & you share the road with us. It works both ways.
Winseer:
(2) Cyclists cannot be fined, because no one is compelled to carry ID in this country
Nonsense - S25 PACE Act (general power of arrest where name and address not know/cannot be ascertained) usually results in some sort of ID being “remembered”
(3) Many police officers are cyclists themselves - not because they have any “green” ethic, but because they can’t afford to drive as a professional.
The vast majority of police officers are paid significantly more than all but the very best paid lorry drivers (and they only work 40 hours a week to get it). So yes, you’re right, they couldn’t afford the huge drop in wages to become a professional driver
I’ve yet to meet anyone ever arrested under that rule. If it’s never enforced, then it might as well have never existed therefore.
Where’s that cyclist helmet camera video where plod walks out from behind a bus, and attempts to bust the cyclist - but relys upon him having been “honest” about a verbal request for his “name and adress”…?
Also, I always wondered why “getting into the police” seems to be the exact opposite of “getting into professional LGV driving”…?
I got knocked back in 1990 for being “too old for entry as constable” back when I was 25, and didn’t have an LGV licence as yet!
In this country of no “compulsory ID” - the only redress the police have is the registration plate - which of course, cyclists don’t have. If the “stopped cyclist” lies therefore, there’s very little the constable can do - because he just doesn’t have enough in law to “call the bluff” of the average cyclist who’s not going to give out their real name and address, unless taken to the cop shop first. Not enough hours in the day to treat every pulled cyclist thus, so they all end up with nothing more than a caution… Open season for cyclists continues. The attrition of cyclists I feel, is more to do with a cavalier attitude by the cyclist than it is due to bad driving by the lgv that runs them over…
rob22888:
I was merely picking up on your nonsensical suggestion that trucks are needlessly holding you up on your outings down country lanes because they should be on the motorway instead.
I was merely replying to Tangoboys post 22 On page 1 on this thread that motorways don’t always go to where he/she wants to go.
So I replied in kind that cycle lanes don’t always go to where a cyclist wants to go.
You took the opportunity to be Outraged yourself. That to me is Nonsensical.
rob22888:
I was merely picking up on your nonsensical suggestion that trucks are needlessly holding you up on your outings down country lanes because they should be on the motorway instead.
I was merely replying to Tangoboys post 22 On page 1 on this thread that motorways don’t always go to where he/she wants to go.
So I replied in kind that cycle lanes don’t always go to where a cyclist wants to go.
You took the opportunity to be Outraged yourself. That to me is Nonsensical.
Why did you get involved?
Tangoboys post. The one you quoted…
Does my head in when you struggle to get by them on a stretch of road with a cycle path next to it and they don’t use it Muppits!!!
At which point does he refer to motorways? It was me that mentioned motorways not going everywhere later on in reply to your daft comment implying trucks are needlessly using A&B roads.
Why did I get involved? This is a discussion forum, I can comment on what I like.
rob22888:
Because this is a discussion forum and I wanted to post a comment.
Jesus wept
Why use the shocked smiley because I drive a 2CV is a evolution friendly method of transportation.
And you called me a Nimby.
Don’t have a problem with you driving a 2CV, take what you want on the road it doesn’t bother me.
I called you a NIMBY in jest more than anything because your comment was very similar to the usual spiel spoken by such people. Plus, the idea of somebody driving a classic car down country lanes whilst complaining about ‘juggernauts’ was quite a poetic. Maybe a smiley might have been more suitable, but to be honest I never expected offence to be taken!
Dipper_Dave:
Cyclists are one of the most vunerable road users. Professional drivers know this and make allowances… the rest of you just whinge on internet forums.
Classic agency driver thread if ever I read one…
markoc:
The groups out cycling in their racing clubs wind me up sometimes riding 2 or 3 abreast with no consideration for other road users. Been stuck behind them plenty of times on weekends unable to pass for ages watching the queue behind in the mirror just getting longer and longer.
However, I don’t mind if it a group of lady cyclists with nice bottoms
Riding 2 abreast is probably the safest way to ride. Something i condone anyway.
Dipper_Dave:
Cyclists are one of the most vunerable road users. Professional drivers know this and make allowances… the rest of you just whinge on internet forums.
Classic agency driver thread if ever I read one…
Why isn’t there a ‘like’ button on this forum?
Thanks possibly one of my rare moments of enlightenment…
I’m not whiter than white though just the other morning around 3am I made a poor judgement decision and was unable to stop before a cycle box at a set of traffic lights. A cyclist who must have got out the wrongside of the bed was annoyed at this which is suprising as we where the only folks around at that time of morning.
Anyway as the front wheels of my truck where in the green box the cyclist banged on the door wanting to speak to me. I calmly opened the window and whilst he was starting a rant about green boxes are for bikes I spoke in a soft voice apologising and stating that I was in the box for the only reason the highway code allows (i.e. not being able to stop safely at the first solid line). I was aware this showed poor judgement on my part so asked the cyclist to go in front and enjoy the rest of his day, no hard feelings etc.
Happy and calm now the lights changed so off the cyclist tootled and I pulled away myself and preceeded to crush him under the wheels of my truck and it took two bin liners to scoop the bugger up, always best to double bag in this situation, so I could dispose of his body at an undisclosed location later.
Aparently when young I was diagnosed with a class 1 delayed psychotic split personality disorder which means my rage kicks in after my calmer self has resolved the situation… lead to some funny situations I can tell you…
[this of course never hapened, i’m probably still ■■■■■■ from last night]
Compared to a lot of drivers on here, I like to think I have a pretty responsible attitude towards cyclists. They don’t bother me, I don’t let them, I give them plenty of room. I appreciate the fact provisions for cyclists on the roads are largely inadequate and thus don’t complain about cyclists being on the road and you won’t see me winding down my window like some other muppets telling them to “get on the cycle path”.
