Cyclist in Primary...WTF

Yes I know we don’t have enough cyclist threads on this forum so in order to address the balance it might be worth getting familiar with the average suicide jockeys mantra/lingo.

So basically a cyclist in ‘Primary’ position means they are in the middle of the road when theres no need to be, i.e just being a self righteous nuisance.

However this position based on the theory that they have as much right to be on the road as anyone else is not without merit, its safer than being up the gutter and wobbling about and shows a real amount of courage to declare to other road users they have a right to be there and should be treated in the same way as a motorised/larger vehicle.

Sure it doesn’t happen outside London much as it would’nt tolerated in say Brum or Manchester but all in all I’m in favour of this position and just thought I would pop this thread up for anyone in London who doesn’t realise whats happening.

A cyclist blog I found gives the best definition of primary:

The argument for more assertive ‘primary’ positioning that lies at the heart of much Cyclecraft advice is that it removes the temptation to overtake a cyclist in places where it would be unsafe — in the face of oncoming traffic, for instance, or at pinch points, or junctions. The cyclist simply prevents the overtake by putting themselves in a position where they would have to be driven over for the motorist to get past.

Course I realise this comes across as more of a challenge than safety advice. :smiling_imp:

I don’t normally comment on cycling threads for the simple reason that I never have an issue with cyclists tbh. Whether that’s because I’m lucky or because I don’t put myself into a position where cyclists become an issue I don’t know. I am however in favour of cyclists/scooter/restricted moped riders putting themselves in a commanding position on the roads. If that means I have to wait longer for an opportunity to overtake then so be it, it aint the end of the world is it?

One of the few scenarios that will (to my shame) make me use a vehicle to intimidate another road user is when I see some moron overtake a cyclist/scooter leaving inches to spare! It actually makes me break my neck to overtake the offending vehicle leaving just the same amount of space that they left the cyclist. :imp:

Many years ago when I first got a motorbike, and before you needed training to take to the road on one, I got stopped by a Bike Copper. he told me to do the same thing, not to ride in the gutter where cars force their way past you, but gt out into the road to force them to overtake properly.
Maybe the same advice should go for cyclist or at least at junctions and traffic lights, they should be coming down the right hand side to get to the front of the queue not down the left hand side where they are more difficult to see. I do have a major issue with these cycle lanes that encourage them to go down the left hand side at junctions.

It’s to easy to blame these accidents on road worrier type of light jumping cyclist, but I heard a discussion a year or so ago about why more women than men were being killed by trucks at junctions, the theory seems to go they are more likely to obey the road markings and lights therefore be coming down the left hand side on the marked cycle lanes and then waiting at junctions.

It basically seems to be a better survival strategy to come down the right hand side and get ahead of the junction, therefore being well ahead of the left turning vehicle.

the maoster:
One of the few scenarios that will (to my shame) make me use a vehicle to intimidate another road user is when I see some moron overtake a cyclist/scooter leaving inches to spare! It actually makes me break my neck to overtake the offending vehicle leaving just the same amount of space that they left the cyclist. :imp:

Your not alone there, seen it many times- cyclist in front being overtaken and nearly knocked off then used my superior knowledge/judgement (well I’d like to think so anyway)to catch the white knuckler at a set of lights and scoot past them making it as awkward as possible.

Course this leaves me wide open to abuse and embarrassment but sometimes we see someone being a prick and feel obliged to give them a taste of their own medicine.

I followed the wife down the road once and someone cut her up, not proud of it but lets I retaliated slightly with a rather aggressive and stupid driving style of my own, wife went mental at me afterwards :blush: .

Wouldn’t do that now though, my license is far too precious, but then again who knows.

I’m all for a bit more aggresive cycling if your not in ‘primary’ at a junction your trapped on the left, get out or stay well back from trucks.

Its no good bleating on about a right to use the roads and cowering in the gutter, get out and defend your position, and better still give yourself room to escape if things go top ■■■■■■■■ skyward.

All this cycling bs is making me to think about getting a bicycle to keep fit…

Primary is an absolutely legitimate position for cyclists to be in, where necessary. I wish a few more cyclists would use it, rather than cowering in the gutters.

I love the cyclist threads on here. So many of them are obviously not going the way the OP intended. :laughing:

It makes sense in central london especaly at busy times as cyclists are faster than most traffic.
Same as red lights i jump red lights on my bike if the road is clear as you get a head start on motor traffic.

kr79:
Same as red lights i jump red lights on my bike if the road is clear as you get a head start on motor traffic.

Burn him!!! :laughing:

Another reason why they should be a test like the CBT for cycles to be used on the road as a good percentage of cyclist can not drive and have no idea on spaces required by cars/LGV’s and for the other percent what can drive alot think cause there on a bike they can brake traffic rules like jumping red lights bad lane discipline but expect everyone else to conform around them as there on a bike.

Bring in CBT for cycles as well as 3rd party min insuance and Licence plates as enfoce cycle light laws maybe even daylight running lights for bikes I guarantee you will see a great reduction in cycle deaths

I’m not saying its all the cyclist fault as other vehicles miss them at times but alot of them get in situations they shouldn’t be from lack of consideration or due care or ignorance to other traffic.

trouble is ive waited and waited patiently for the right time to over take a cyclist and then half a mile down the road you come to a set of lights and you get past by the same cyclist using the gutter and then you have to do it all over again and you wait and wait and pass again at a save distance then half mile down the road you come to a set of lights but this time the road is too narrow and they cant get passed in the gutter so they take to the pavement and use the pelican crossing to get ahead of the traffic! so you wait and you wait and wait and wait for a save place to over take and it all starts again ?
im all for cycle safety but cyclists have to also use the highway code the same as the other vehicles using the roads.

It depends on what you call a good percentage, last time I checked it was about 87% of cyclists were vehicle owners. I’m all for cyclists following the highway code, in fact I’m happy for all motor vehicles to do it, trouble is all types of road user breaks the law every day. No amount of training, cbt, licence plates, tax, lights, bans or anything else will change that.
As I’ve put on here previously. Cyclists aren’t idiots, truckers aren’t idiots, car drivers aren’t idiots & pedestrians aren’t idiots, it’s people, people are idiots.

As I’ve put on here previously. Cyclists aren’t idiots, truckers aren’t idiots, car drivers aren’t idiots & pedestrians aren’t idiots, it’s people, people are idiots

I fully agree with that and part of the reason for the so must dislike to cyclist on here is they throw there toys out the pram when someone points suggests there at fault

But yeah there’s motor offences committed every second of every day but you know driving a car you’ve got a number plate strapped to both ends same with when drive a truck you’ve got plate at both ends and probably the company name written down the side so your easily traced so make people think twice there still some idiots out there who don’t and my idea of plates isn’t fool proof but it would stop alot of the cyclist jumping lights running on pavements etc. A couple of months ago there was a cyclist who took out a 12 year old front teeth cycling in a pedestrian zone fled the scene and as far as I know was never traced.

At least us truck driver would get the satisfaction of screaming out cyclist numbers on our dash cam’s and you tube and trucks/car wouldn’t look as bad if other motorist started doing that like some cyclist do then block comments when were at fault :laughing: yes I know that’s generalising but all of the news story’s are the same Cyclist vs BIG BAD LGV who’s done more training/road experience (in most cases) then the cyclist who didn’t have lights or was wearing dark colours or wasn’t wearing a helmet and passed the LGV on the left or has no clue how much space he needs to move but went into his space anyway rather then waiting a couple of seconds and hanging back or going from road to cycle path to pavement depending on there mood and all to avoid stopping at a red light well your either a road user or you walk. Yes every loss is a shame and I know some accidents will be the drivers fault I’m not doubting that but rather then looking to change some thing which is hard to change why isn’t the easy thing to change been made to change (high viz, Plate, Construction and use laws for bikes?)

I’m not saying cyclist are satan nor am I saying other motorist are angels but I’m sick of picking up the paper or reading the news lets ban trucks from London as that’s the only logical thing to do rather then teach people how to behave around large vehicles.
I personally see cyclist extremists like ramblers with byways we want this all to our self’s the big bad 4x4 are damaging the byways… council bans 4x4 byways go into disrepair and cost more to maintain as 4x4 drivers aren’t clipping trees back etc and the footpath need recovering more and more cause heavy foot traffic can be more damaging then a careful driven 4x4 then no one else to blame and it becomes apparent that foot traffic is just as damaging in large numbers as vehicles

Slackbladder:
It depends on what you call a good percentage, last time I checked it was about 87% of cyclists were vehicle owners. I’m all for cyclists following the highway code, in fact I’m happy for all motor vehicles to do it, trouble is all types of road user breaks the law every day. No amount of training, cbt, licence plates, tax, lights, bans or anything else will change that.
As I’ve put on here previously. Cyclists aren’t idiots, truckers aren’t idiots, car drivers aren’t idiots & pedestrians aren’t idiots, it’s people, people are idiots.

Pretty much what I think there, education might help and maybe it’s an area where the haulage industry and cycling groups can work together. and maybe a bit more working together might a better understanding from both groups.
Then both groups can pick on car drivers. :laughing:

K5Project:
I personally see cyclist extremists like ramblers with byways

I have thought that as well, and they are very vocal like the Rambling Association and not really open to compromise, but like most walkers, most cyclists are just people trying to get from A to B.

kr79:
It makes sense in central london especaly at busy times as cyclists are faster than most traffic.
Same as red lights i jump red lights on my bike if the road is clear as you get a head start on motor traffic.

If you can’t get away from lights faster than motor traffic whilst on your bike then you’re doing something wrong.
I’m a fat ■■■■■■ and I can beat almost every motor vehicle off the lights when on my battered old bike (granted I don’t stay ahead for long but it’s enough for me to get into primary and hold the ■■■■■■■■ up even more :smiley:)

The majority of keen would be Chris Boardmans and the drug taking Lance Amstrong all have a chip on their narrow shoulders IMHO, like WTF are you doing on my road in my space. Dont you know I have to swerve at the last moment to avoid a drain, God dam it, the lights are red, *uck this ■■■■ I’ll mount the pavement and duck through. Hay, if youre within in a foot of my ■■■ at the lights Ive got my helmet camera on. Guess what, I hate doing this sooo much in the ■■■■■■■ rain I’m gonna get straight on the phone to your boss and shop you, oh and I’ll upload it on Youtube too. Edited in my favour of course to make you look like a total *wat. The majority of cyclist and not all to be fair in IMHO are miserable, grumpy, and think they have a right to own the road when in fact no one does, it’s about common sense and courtesy, via all road users.

It’s true about maybe having to swerve to avoid a drain or a pothole, though. That’s why cyclists get annoyed when people zip past with less than about three feet of space.

If cyclists think the "taking up the primary position " is a good idea,and I am not saying it isn’t,Ireally don’t know,when they come up to a queue of say a dozen vehicles should they not maintain this position and wait their turn like all other vehicles do ?. Seems a bit "Cake and eat it " doesn’t it ?

If they want to use the whole lane they should have to stay behind queuing traffic and not try to squeeze up the inside.

trampyjoe:

kr79:
It makes sense in central london especaly at busy times as cyclists are faster than most traffic.
Same as red lights i jump red lights on my bike if the road is clear as you get a head start on motor traffic.

If you can’t get away from lights faster than motor traffic whilst on your bike then you’re doing something wrong.
I’m a fat [zb] and I can beat almost every motor vehicle off the lights when on my battered old bike (granted I don’t stay ahead for long but it’s enough for me to get into primary and hold the [zb] up even more :smiley:)

Yes i can get moving sharpish but once rolling the cars can accelerate quicker so i can be acrosd the junction safe beffore the traffic light grand prix.