Curtain siders and loading

war1974:
its strange how I ran for years colleting from Heinz, p&g loaded reels of paper on ends (not so they could roll) all in a curtainsider and never had any issues (I did when they were loaded to roll mind).
yet now someone in an office states you must strap each one and still people say don’t use this type etc.

even steel coils from the docks to Nissan were only strapped front and back on a coil trailer and I never heard of a driver having issues.

I suppose it is also strange a good friend of mine was hauled into court after a 2nd artic from his company toppled over on a roundabout killing 2 in the car next to them.

Both roll overs were caused by large paper reels on end sliding across the deck and trying to get out the curtain.

It really is a lottery. You take the chance of that 1mph too much on that camber on that day when just the wrong thing happened. I suppose it’s all down to the driver but neither of his wanted to roll the trailer.

Up until this my mates attitude was “we’ve always done it like that”. After the court case they had specific reel carrying trailers constructed.

I’ve never won the lottery so figure I’m unlucky - I’d strap EVERYTHING

Daytrunker:
When we go into crown crest in Leicester for pallets of tinned foods we go in with curtainsides nowt gets strapped or when we take a curtain into napier brown for sugar in Normanton 24 pallets don’t get strapped never had a problem so far.

Well wrapped pallets in an XL trailer wouldn’t need much in the way of strapping. In a standard curtain you’ve been taking an unnecessary risk.

It’s the ‘so far’ bit worries me. I would rather have a “can’t move” situation than “might move” or “will it move?”

Maybe the weight will hold it eh? :unamused: :wink:

I got told that DVSA can fine you £60 a strap for unsecured pallets, so every pallet of mine gets a strap whether I think it needs it or not. But i don’t know any better, and am still a DVSA virgin! :grimacing:

Plus I’m also a big kid and kind of enjoy climbing all over the load! :laughing:

Evil8Beezle:
I got told that DVSA can fine you £60 a strap for unsecured pallets, so every pallet of mine gets a strap whether I think it needs it or not. But i don’t know any better, and am still a DVSA virgin! :grimacing:

Plus I’m also a big kid and kind of enjoy climbing all over the load! :laughing:

Don’t listen to other drivers! It’s £100 fixed penalty and a PG9

shep532:
Internal straps hanging from trailer? Mostly a waste of space.

Completely agree. As our loads are all heavy, the only time I use them is to support the stock on pallets if the shrink wrapping doesn’t look up to much, beyond that they are neither use nor ornament really and are left in the storage pockets.

The inconvenient truth is that heavy loads, where not on XL trailers or those with proper load restraining internal curtains, should be strapped down to the bed with lashings like on a flatbed. However, very few can be fussed because a) it’s a faff and b) you often end up damaging the load, so they just wing it and ‘show effort’ with internals or don’t bother at all.

shep532:

Evil8Beezle:
I got told that DVSA can fine you £60 a strap for unsecured pallets, so every pallet of mine gets a strap whether I think it needs it or not. But i don’t know any better, and am still a DVSA virgin! :grimacing:

Plus I’m also a big kid and kind of enjoy climbing all over the load! :laughing:

Don’t listen to other drivers! It’s £100 fixed penalty and a PG9

Thanks Shep, and for clarification; Is that £100 per strap/pallet, or for the whole load?

Evil8Beezle:

shep532:

Evil8Beezle:
I got told that DVSA can fine you £60 a strap for unsecured pallets, so every pallet of mine gets a strap whether I think it needs it or not. But i don’t know any better, and am still a DVSA virgin! :grimacing:

Plus I’m also a big kid and kind of enjoy climbing all over the load! [emoji38]

Don’t listen to other drivers! It’s £100 fixed penalty and a PG9

Thanks Shep, and for clarification; Is that £100 per strap/pallet, or for the whole load?

Nonsense. It’s 4 grand a pallet. Then you are sent down the pits for a day and made to drink cold tea from an agency drivers boot.

happysack:

Evil8Beezle:

shep532:

Evil8Beezle:
I got told that DVSA can fine you £60 a strap for unsecured pallets, so every pallet of mine gets a strap whether I think it needs it or not. But i don’t know any better, and am still a DVSA virgin! :grimacing:

Plus I’m also a big kid and kind of enjoy climbing all over the load! [emoji38]

Don’t listen to other drivers! It’s £100 fixed penalty and a PG9

Thanks Shep, and for clarification; Is that £100 per strap/pallet, or for the whole load?

Nonsense. It’s 4 grand a pallet. Then you are sent down the pits for a day and made to drink cold tea from an agency drivers boot.

Oh come on happysack - if you’re gonna correct me get it right. It’s £4,000 per Euro pallet. A full size pallet is £4853.46 at today’s exchange rate.

But if you read the DVSA enforcement sanctions policy, for some reason it says it’s only £100 fine. It doesn’t say per pallet nor mention the £4,000 fine. Bit strange really. So it seems it is just a simple £100 graduated fixed penalty, PG9 and immobilised vehicle. They will generally give you about an hour to sort it before hand - if you’ve got the stuff with you

I heard that the Traffic Commissioner hits you in the face three times with a wet fish.

eagerbeaver:
I heard that the Traffic Commissioner hits you in the face three times with a wet fish.

Second offence only. You don’t want to know what you get for a third offence but it involves Beverley herself and some string.

rob22888:

shep532:
Internal straps hanging from trailer? Mostly a waste of space.

Completely agree. As our loads are all heavy, the only time I use them is to support the stock on pallets if the shrink wrapping doesn’t look up to much, beyond that they are neither use nor ornament really and are left in the storage pockets.

The inconvenient truth is that heavy loads, where not on XL trailers or those with proper load restraining internal curtains, should be strapped down to the bed with lashings like on a flatbed. However, very few can be fussed because a) it’s a faff and b) you often end up damaging the load, so they just wing it and ‘show effort’ with internals or don’t bother at all.

Tilts and curtainsiders are basically flats that don’t need to be sheeted.If you look at them like that you won’t go far wrong.

Having said that I wouldn’t want to be using any of them now that rope hooks have been deemed as not suitable for load securing. :confused: Which would have presented loads of aggravation in the day of mostly roped loads and even often used for chained or strapped ones.

I had a rope hook snap whilst ratcheting it up once - hence my lack of real teeth. :wink:

shep532:
I had a rope hook snap whilst ratcheting it up once - hence my lack of real teeth. :wink:

To be fair they were more about a reasonable amount of force on each multiplied by lots of them.Other than that I’d guess the Ozzy way using a bar instead of hooks seems about as good as it gets but they look awkward to anyone used to using hooks.

youtube.com/watch?v=73hHtb_if1g

nick2008:

OVLOV JAY:

raymundo:
Dead easy !! two bloody great big doors at the back, each over four foot wide !! :slight_smile:

Over 4ft wide :open_mouth: You must have a 12 inch ■■■■■ :wink: :laughing:

3ft 10in, I measured them before being so cocky

Depends on what glasses he’s got on that day :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

Was using my elastic tape measure :unamused:

raymundo:

nick2008:

OVLOV JAY:

raymundo:
Dead easy !! two bloody great big doors at the back, each over four foot wide !! :slight_smile:

Over 4ft wide :open_mouth: You must have a 12 inch ■■■■■ :wink: :laughing:

3ft 10in, I measured them before being so cocky

Depends on what glasses he’s got on that day :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

Was using my elastic tape measure :unamused:

I bet that hurt the little fella :open_mouth:

Anything above waist height gets strapped. I use the internals to support the lighter stuff. 500KG is the limit on what I use the interals on and even then I still get twitchy.

Best thing is to get some steel box section lengths made up to slot in the roof supports, same as Tescos/Stobarts have to take roll cages in their curtainsiders.

Quicker than straps, won’t damage the goods and probably cost less than some training industry leeches load security course.

Milkman always seems to manage to buzz about without strapping anything on the back so this idea everything’s going to leap off without a million ratchet staps is nonsense.

Or just put one strap in an enormous loop round the lot to the headboard to save time. If you’re pulled they’d struggle to get anywhere if the load hasn’t shifted and you’ve made an effort.

Own Account Driver:
Or just put one strap in an enormous loop round the lot to the headboard to save time. If you’re pulled they’d struggle to get anywhere if the load hasn’t shifted and you’ve made an effort.

If only that was correct. Whether the load has shifted or not - if it is clear the restraints are insufficient they can issue a £100 fixed penalty. A simple calculation confirms insufficient or not - there are at least 3 commercially available Apps to do the calculation for them. Of course you could contest it and have your case heard in court.

its all ifs buts and maybes has anyone challenged these plebs who decide this? so despite having had no issues with paper because someone you know had 2 accident its automatically unsafe, most rollovers or loads shifting is driver error be it speed clipping a kerb loading wrong etc. we ran pallets for years in curtainsiders with no issues. people roped and sheeted loads for years with no issues, but we cant have accidents anymore, someone needs to be blamed and we wont stop with pathetic courses, rules, regulations until every driver is doing 20mph with 100 straps on his trailer and every accident is erased.

I have run with steel strapped way beyond what would be classed as ‘safe’ and trust me when I had to hammer the breaks on the A1 because some ■■■■ thought the gap was big enough for his landrover to pull out slower than a tractor it moved and moved a lot.

war1974:
I have run with steel strapped way beyond what would be classed as ‘safe’ and trust me when I had to hammer the breaks on the A1 because some ■■■■ thought the gap was big enough for his landrover to pull out slower than a tractor it moved and moved a lot.

Unfortunately what you class as safe and what someone else classes as safe can be very different things.

We do however have acknowledged/known standards for load securing such as BSEN 12195-1. This has been formulated by many ‘experts’ as a result of known scientific fact and trial and test. The standard has fact to back it up.

When a driver secures a load, if he isn’t aware of the actual recognised calculation to decide how many straps to use he resorts to experience or just a guess. Unfortunately his experience isn’t based on scientific facts or tests and trials.

If we consult BSEN 12195-1 we would find a simple calculation taking into account the weight of the load, the coefficient of friction between the load and load bed, the tension in the straps/chains, the angle they are at and the known acceleration forces that could be achieved during transport. Take all of those factors and we can scientifically calculate the numbers of lashings.

So a 2t steel girder resting on timbers loaded away from the headboard would require around 19 standard 2.5t straps to actually prevent forward movement under maximum braking if over strapped. Alternatively around 5 chains. This is way over what most people would estimate and is based on a proven scientific calculation.

The fact your load did move when you anchored on proves the point that it was not secured sufficiently for the worse case scenario. Whose fault it was matters very little if it moved far enough to enter the cab or leave the vehicle and cause a fatality.

I have lost loads and had no idea at all why. I was convinced it was chained/strapped to death and even after the biggest incident still thought something must have been faulty or - well I never really knew. Now I know the science behind it I realise it was simple maths. Not enough friction, too low a strap angle, not enough tension and far greater forces acting on the load than I thought possible.

With around 450,000 HGVs on the road and even far more vans the 22,000 or so road closures due to lost loads in a year is a tiny percentage of loads but if some of those were deaths or permanent life changing injuries then it’s no good.

Isn’t it better we avoid them if we know how and stop being ignorant to facts.

I remember arguing with the instructor on a speed awareness course. He said speed kills and I strongly disagreed but I know what he meant. If a load is secured properly it cannot injure or kill anyone.