Zac_A:
It’s not just the newbies, there’s shedloads of experienced drivers who don’t know stuff they should, eg not hooking your ratchet straps onto your ropehooksGuaranteed “unsecured load” from DVSA
Maybe send everyone a booklet with that info in when they renew their license? Free of charge.
That was just one little example, there’s shed loads more on load security
Do you usually read free leaflets? Most people tend to file them into that circular filing cabinet we call the bin.
If you take the leaflet strategy one step further you end up with our (North east) TCs favourite quote “If it’s on the internet it’s in the public domain and I expect you to know it, ignorance is no excuse”.
And it already is in the public domain, so logically, no one should be getting fined for that, but they are
gov.uk/government/publicati … r-guidance
Same as the top five defects drivers get done for at the roadside, the #1 item is arguably the simplest vehicle check there is, but about 20% of HGV drivers who are stopped get done for this. We all know we need to do a walk around check, plenty don’t bother and get fines and points on their licence.
It’s not just the newbies, there’s shedloads of experienced drivers who don’t know stuff they should,
That is probably true and if the course was 3.5 hours a day instead of 7 then they may actually take some of this information in, the problem is most of us go into the room not wanting to be there due to how irrelevant most of it is and the fact you have to sit through 7 hours of it, this is exacerbated when courses are duplicated.
Do you have to go on the same course every 5 years in many other line of work? Do brickie’s have to pay to sit in a class for 35 hours while some fat bloke on a video says “This is a brick. And this is mortar”.
Followed by “don’t drop the former off the building someone may get hurt” 
Maybe send everyone a booklet with that info in when they renew their license? Free of charge.
Brilliant, then you could read it when you are on the bog and save on bog paper.
Says 7 hrs a few times, but for the renewal do you not have to do the full 5 day crap again, like the 1st card?
D.Thompson:
It’s not just the newbies, there’s shedloads of experienced drivers who don’t know stuff they should,
That is probably true and if the course was 3.5 hours a day instead of 7 then they may actually take some of this information in, the problem is most of us go into the room not wanting to be there due to how irrelevant most of it is and the fact you have to sit through 7 hours of it, this is exacerbated when courses are duplicated.
No probably about it, it is true, just look at all the posts on TN asking if their schedules are legal.
And if the guy who created the petition had used his noggin, he would have campaigned for changing DCPC, which could potentially happen, instead of telling them they “need to scrap it” which just is not going to happen
If he’d asked for assistance from someone who understood logical arguments, he would have understood that the ill-considered wording of his petition gives the government an easy way to dismiss it out of hand, he’s quoting opinions as if they’re facts, instantly shooting himself in the foot.
iguana:
Says 7 hrs a few times, but for the renewal do you not have to do the full 5 day crap again, like the 1st card?
5 x 7 hour blocks, every renewal.
Zac_A:
D.Thompson:
It’s not just the newbies, there’s shedloads of experienced drivers who don’t know stuff they should,
That is probably true and if the course was 3.5 hours a day instead of 7 then they may actually take some of this information in, the problem is most of us go into the room not wanting to be there due to how irrelevant most of it is and the fact you have to sit through 7 hours of it, this is exacerbated when courses are duplicated.
No probably about it, it is true, just look at all the posts on TN asking if their schedules are legal.
And if the guy who created the petition had used his noggin, he would have campaigned for changing DCPC, which could potentially happen, instead of telling them they “need to scrap it” which just is not going to happen
If he’d asked for assistance from someone who understood logical arguments, he would have understood that the ill-considered wording of his petition gives the government an easy way to dismiss it out of hand, he’s quoting opinions as if they’re facts, instantly shooting himself in the foot.
In that case why don’t you do what he didn’t, if scrapping it will never happen and you don’t think the petition will bring about a debate about its relevance why not set one up that they may take notice of and may change DCPC for the better.
Yeah, even as I was posting that, I was already expecting something along the lines of a “let’s see you do a better one”
There’s a few reasons why I won’t be creating any petitions, not least of all being that I’m busier right now than I have been for many a year, but also:
D.Thompson:
Harry Monk:
yourhavingalarf:
I’d be slightly more convinced of it’s benefits if there was a pass/fail but, for some reason or other, there isn’t.When I took my Operator’s CPC we discussed the Driver CPC and the instructor said that the reason there isn’t a pass/fail element is because of how disastrous it would be to the industry if 40% of drivers were taken off the road at a stroke. Which does rather confirm that it is a bit “Mickey Mouse”.
Not only would it take 40% of drivers off the road it would make the job less attractive to new drivers.
Why would it take 40% of drivers off the road? Just set the pass mark to be 3 out of 100.
So you want to scrap the dcpc to ease the shortage?
The same shortage that is generating significant wage rises pretty much everywhere?
Why would any single current driver want to do anything to ease the shortage other than by better T&C’s? As anything other will mean lesser T&C’s
So no, I won’t be daft enough to sign to call for scrapping the dcpc.
Embrace it for what it gives you, not what you might or might not learn from it. I know some people have to pay for it themselves, but I still think you’re net better off with it, so I don’t buy into the tax on drivers crap.
Yes I think it’s a bit crap in its current form, but I’m certainly not against the idea of it, I think the majority are pretty clueless about all the regs of the industry, if it were down to me it’d be properly tested, but then there really would be a shortage!
You don’t get better wages by opening things up and making it easier and cheaper to become and remain a hgv driver.
So you want to scrap the dcpc to ease the shortage?
No i want to scrap DCPC in its current form because its a total waste of time and twice the length it needs to be as explained in several posts in the thread by me and several others, i guess you bypassed those in your haste to have your say here.
My view the government should pay for retired drivers to take DCPC then they can apply for jobs and get back on the road quicker, if the current driver shortage carries on and leads to empty shelves and worse doctors and chemists running out of medication the public are going to blame drivers not wages and conditions that have caused it, we are already hated by a large percentage of the population this is going to do us no favours whatsoever as they are blissfully unaware of the crap we have to put up with and the BBC are going to be in no hurry to tell them.
D.Thompson:
So you want to scrap the dcpc to ease the shortage?
No i want to scrap DCPC in its current form because its a total waste of time and twice the length it needs to be as explained in several posts in the thread by me and several others, i guess you bypassed those in your haste to have your say here.
My view the government should pay for retired drivers to take DCPC then they can apply for jobs and get back on the road quicker, if the current driver shortage carries on and leads to empty shelves and worse doctors and chemists running out of medication the public are going to blame drivers not wages and conditions that have caused it, we are already hated by a large percentage of the population this is going to do us no favours whatsoever as they are blissfully unaware of the crap we have to put up with and the BBC are going to be in no hurry to tell them.
Oh, I thought you thought it was a good idea to ease the shortage, dunno where I got that from?
“as it says below it is stopping driver returning to the industry and with the current shortage of drivers that is not a good thing,”
Oh yeah, you said that.
I didn’t bypass anything, unlike yourself, go back and slowly read what I’ve written again.
So you want the government to pay, which is me and you for retired drivers to get their dcpc that will then lead to lower wages, no thanks.
It sounds like you’re falling for the RHA bs, stop with the scaremongering.
Why would the public blame drivers that are doing the job for a lack of people doing the job? That doesn’t make sense.
I wonder how many with expired LGV licences would return if they were given a free D4 medical, digicard and exemption from driver cpc 
So you want the government to pay, which is me and you for retired drivers to get their dcpc that will then lead to lower wages, no thanks.
I got the impression from numerous threads its was foreign drivers doing the job for peanuts that has driven wages down now they have left and there is a huge shortage how is bringing retired drivers back to the industry going to lead to lower wages if they agree not working for peanuts, how long are you going to wait untill all companies pay this fair wage as it is not going to happen overnight, are you happy to see the driver shortage carry on for many months meaning supermarket shelves running short and medical supplies not getting to where they are needed in time (and by then it won’t be scaremongering) just so you can get a few £ more pounds in your wage packet.
D.Thompson:
So you want the government to pay, which is me and you for retired drivers to get their dcpc that will then lead to lower wages, no thanks.
I got the impression from numerous threads its was foreign drivers doing the job for peanuts that has driven wages down now they have left and there is a huge shortage how is bringing retired drivers back to the industry going to lead to lower wages if they agree not working for peanuts, how long are you going to wait untill all companies pay this fair wage as it is not going to happen overnight, are you happy to see the driver shortage carry on for many months meaning supermarket shelves running short and medical supplies not getting to where they are needed in time (and by then it won’t be scaremongering) just so you can get a few £ more pounds in your wage packet.
Supply and demand sets the wages, allowing uncontrolled numbers of European drivers in had a massive negative effect on wages, whilst many will have worked for low wages when 1st allowed in, I wouldn’t be surprised if the average EU worker working here earned more than the average British worker. It was reported 14k EU drivers returned home and 600 have returned.
IR35 has probably had a bigger impact on the ‘shortage’
It is reported that there are 80k people in the country that have the licence and DCPC yet are doing something else to earn their living, because they are getting a better deal, so there isn’t a shortage of drivers, there’s a shortage of firms paying enough.
I disagree, wages are going up pretty much overnight.
Are you going to get them to sign a contract, you can have a free dcpc, but you can’t work for less than 20ph? Dude, seriously. If you add a load of people to the pool of drivers then that will have a negative effect on wages.
Again it’s the supply and demand that sets the wages, so yes I don’t want anything to happen that adds to the pool of drivers other than increasing T&C’s to attract enough drivers.
Yes I’m happy for the shortage of firms paying enough to carry on for as long as it takes until the balance is met and I’m not worried about your emotive scaremongering doomsday scenario.
Are you a driver? As you don’t sound like one.
, I wouldn’t be surprised if the average EU worker working here earned more than the average British worker. It was reported 14k EU drivers returned home and 600 have returned.
You use words like you wouldn’t be surprised and it was reported, have you any facts to back this up?
You say wages are the reason all these drivers with CPC are not driving maybe like in most jobs people do it for years then try something else, you don’t seem to have mentioned working conditions facilities etc all it seems you are interested in is wage rise, who is going to pay for this if you get a rise the money has to come from somewhere whe do you suggest it comes from?
Truck drivers like most jobs are not paid what they think they should be my wife is a carer and I bet you are on more wages than her, if you are not happy with the wages you are getting go elsewhere or do something else.
You say I am scaremongering about shortages well if this continues for a long period there will be shortages as new drivers won’t be driving attics the moment they get their licence, be careful what you wish for it may just nite you on the arse!
Oh and yes I am a driver why would I start an nati CPC thread if I wasn’t.
, I wouldn’t be surprised if the average EU worker working here earned more than the average British worker. It was reported 14k EU drivers returned home and 600 have returned.
You use words like you wouldn’t be surprised and it was reported, have you any facts to back this up?
You say wages are the reason all these drivers with CPC are not driving maybe like in most jobs people do it for years then try something else, you seem to be blaming wages as the reason people won’t become new drivers but most of the complaints in the thread have been about conditions and facilities
etc all it seems you are interested in is wage rise,
I don’t imagine many workers think they are paid enough and we are no different,
who is going to pay for this if you get a rise the money has to come from somewhere whe do you suggest it comes from?
Truck drivers like most jobs are not paid what they think they should be my wife is a carer and I bet you are on more wages than her, if you are not happy with the wages you are getting go elsewhere or do something else.
You say I am scaremongering about shortages well if this continues for a long period there will be shortages as new drivers won’t be driving artics the moment they get their licence, be careful what you wish for it may just bite you on the arse!
Oh and yes I am a driver why would I start an nati CPC thread if I wasn’t.
D.Thompson:
, I wouldn’t be surprised if the average EU worker working here earned more than the average British worker. It was reported 14k EU drivers returned home and 600 have returned.
You use words like you wouldn’t be surprised and it was reported, have you any facts to back this up?
You say wages are the reason all these drivers with CPC are not driving maybe like in most jobs people do it for years then try something else, you don’t seem to have mentioned working conditions facilities etc all it seems you are interested in is wage rise, who is going to pay for this if you get a rise the money has to come from somewhere whe do you suggest it comes from?
Truck drivers like most jobs are not paid what they think they should be my wife is a carer and I bet you are on more wages than her, if you are not happy with the wages you are getting go elsewhere or do something else.
You say I am scaremongering about shortages well if this continues for a long period there will be shortages as new drivers won’t be driving attics the moment they get their licence, be careful what you wish for it may just nite you on the arse!Oh and yes I am a driver why would I start an nati CPC thread if I wasn’t.
“Analysis of the latest ONS Labour Force Survey for the second quarter suggests that 14,000 EU lorry drivers left jobs in the UK in the year to June 2020, and only 600 had returned by July 2021.22 Aug 2021”
That’s a quote from a BBC article, just Google how many EU drivers left and that comes up.
Using words like wouldn’t be surprised is clearly me not stating a fact, it’s my hunch on it, due to generally they will have far less ties to an area than a UK driver, so far easier to chase the money where it is, and if you’ve left your country for more money you’re more likely to chase the money, I would guess they are more likely to be renting than the average UK driver, so again far easier to up sticks, more likely to be house sharing, so less bills, so can take the risk of agency s/e work that generally has higher rates but with the risk of the it ending tomorrow, all hunch but pretty irrelevant anyway to the debate.
I didn’t say wages, I said T&C’s that means terms and conditions, so not just about the money.
Are you saying people are getting a worse overall deal than driving, people tend to do what gives them the best overall deal, again, that is not just about wages before you get excited and think you can score a point.
Again I did mention conditions, you just didn’t know I had, not my fault.
Who do you think will pay for it? It’s not rocket science, firms have to pay the going rate, their rate will adjust accordingly and prices keep adjusting to each of their going rate and the end user / buyer pays the rate required. I’m not a charity, maybe you are? I don’t want drivers wages held artificially low to keep prices down in the shops.
I would probably think I am on more than her, I don’t see the relevance, I’m very happy with my wage, it’s border line daft money so I’m gonna continue doing this.
Why not, my 1st driving job was in an artic.
I’m not worried.
Because you don’t want drivers to have higher wages and want to scrap the dcpc which would have a negative impact on wages, strange view for a driver
Terry Cooksey:
The CPC in theory was a good idea, it’s just in practice that it’s been ballsed up.
The most common CPC modules going (drivers hours, tacho, health & safety etc) can be good for newbies to the industry, but aren’t much use to those of us who have been around a while, as the information hardly changes.
Not sure if serious. If they’re not much use to those who’ve been around for a while why do lots of drivers who’ve been around for a while still not understand the basics of drivers hours rules and don’t secure loads properly so they have pallets going over or stuff falling off their trucks? Go to any DCPC module on EU drivers hours regs and you’ll have a room full of drivers bleating on about how it’s all crap and they don’t need teaching to ■■■■ eggs and then when it comes to questions and answers all but a handful will get answers wrong.
When there aren’t drivers who’ve been doing the job any length of time losing loads, having stuff go over, there’s no pictures of bad loading on social media and no questions and wrong answers about drivers hours outside of the newbie forums then you can say it’s not needed.