yourhavingalarf:
I’d be slightly more convinced of it’s benefits if there was a pass/fail but, for some reason or other, there isn’t.
When I took my Operator’s CPC we discussed the Driver CPC and the instructor said that the reason there isn’t a pass/fail element is because of how disastrous it would be to the industry if 40% of drivers were taken off the road at a stroke. Which does rather confirm that it is a bit “Mickey Mouse”.
Harry Monk:
yourhavingalarf:
I’d be slightly more convinced of it’s benefits if there was a pass/fail but, for some reason or other, there isn’t.When I took my Operator’s CPC we discussed the Driver CPC and the instructor said that the reason there isn’t a pass/fail element is because of how disastrous it would be to the industry if 40% of drivers were taken off the road at a stroke. Which does rather confirm that it is a bit “Mickey Mouse”.
Does that prove that the CPC is a bit Mickey Mouse, or that most drivers don’t know half as much as they think they do?
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Terry Cooksey:
Harry Monk:
yourhavingalarf:
I’d be slightly more convinced of it’s benefits if there was a pass/fail but, for some reason or other, there isn’t.When I took my Operator’s CPC we discussed the Driver CPC and the instructor said that the reason there isn’t a pass/fail element is because of how disastrous it would be to the industry if 40% of drivers were taken off the road at a stroke. Which does rather confirm that it is a bit “Mickey Mouse”.
Does that prove that the CPC is a bit Mickey Mouse, or that most drivers don’t know half as much as they think they do?
Both, I guess.
Harry Monk:
Terry Cooksey:
Harry Monk:
yourhavingalarf:
I’d be slightly more convinced of it’s benefits if there was a pass/fail but, for some reason or other, there isn’t.When I took my Operator’s CPC we discussed the Driver CPC and the instructor said that the reason there isn’t a pass/fail element is because of how disastrous it would be to the industry if 40% of drivers were taken off the road at a stroke. Which does rather confirm that it is a bit “Mickey Mouse”.
Does that prove that the CPC is a bit Mickey Mouse, or that most drivers don’t know half as much as they think they do?
Both, I guess.
In fairness, I’ve encountered a fair few CPC instructors who don’t know half of the stuff they’re talking about. The amount who have never driven a truck is unbelievable
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Harry Monk:
yourhavingalarf:
I’d be slightly more convinced of it’s benefits if there was a pass/fail but, for some reason or other, there isn’t.When I took my Operator’s CPC we discussed the Driver CPC and the instructor said that the reason there isn’t a pass/fail element is because of how disastrous it would be to the industry if 40% of drivers were taken off the road at a stroke. Which does rather confirm that it is a bit “Mickey Mouse”.
No problem with having a pass and fail system - have as many as you like. Just dont charge anyone money for taking the test
Zac_A:
They aren’t scrapping it and no petition is going to change that. The document is 43 pages long, but you can skip to page 36, section 7.2
google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q … -RKqnsmoz3
…which uses the word “recommendation” - it is not a fait accompli.
MP’s have no mandatory testing or training to do their job & often know very little about the subjects they are passing regulations on.
Although the chances are slim of having the DCPC cancelled, right now the majority of MP’s won’t even know that we actually have a pointless training system in place. They will believe it is what the spin makes it out to be. This is a chance to open their eyes to the reality.
It could then come down to who can lobby the hardest (i.e. pass more money over) - multi billionaire business owners or the JAUPT.
No MP is going to drop a “safety measure” like the cpc - even if it has nothing to do with safety. Its to do with making people money so it will stay - how else could they bleed millions from hgv drivers every year?
It’s very obvious D.Thompson that you and I are not going to agree on this petition, which is fine, that’s democracy in action, but I think there’s some things that haven’t been considered by the guy behind the petition.
D.Thompson:
Oh well lets do nothing and just sit on our arses in the classroom moaning about how pointless CPC is,
Aye, and there’s the rub… I’m not. My DCPC is done up to September 2029, at which point I’ll be approaching 70 and any HGV driving I do will be only occasional.
Unlike the guy with the petition, my view is, when a job needs to be done, just crack on and get it squared away without bleating about it. This past year and a half has made squaring away the DCPC hours a doddle.
at least the person setting up the petition is trying to do something
Why? He’ll be putting more effort into his petition than it takes to get the DCPC hours. I’ve got a teenage son who has the same attitude as this, spends 30 mins trying to avoid a job that can be done in 5 mins, so you can imagine my POV towards the guy with his petition.
if you don’t think CPC is of any use to experienced drivers sign the petition at least then you have done something positive to try to get it changed!
There’s a lot that should be changed in the industry, scrapping DCPC is not one of them for me, changing it would be a topic that I would find of significant interest.
I’m categorically not opposed to the DCPC in principle. What I am very much opposed to is how it is implemented and managed by DVSA through JAUPT - the profanity filter would be working overtime if I was to detail what is wrong with JAUPT. Because of they way these people have mishandled it, it is generally not seen to be of value, but it could have been so much more useful if it had be deployed in a sensible manner.
ScaniaUltimate:
…which uses the word “recommendation” - it is not a fait accompli.
True, but this is The Government, who regularly demonstrate they have their own version of a dictionary, so in essence I would suggest it is a done deal.
MP’s have no mandatory testing or training to do their job & often know very little about the subjects they are passing regulations on.
Although the chances are slim of having the DCPC cancelled, right now the majority of MP’s won’t even know that we actually have a pointless training system in place. They will believe it is what the spin makes it out to be. This is a chance to open their eyes to the reality.
Our MPs are by a large, a right shower, you’ll get no argument from me there. Where I would disagree with you is thinking that they care, about the haulage industry, or about anyone but theirselves and their political careers and (probably more importantly) their post-political career financial opportunities. Just look at David Cameron resurfacing mired in scandal.
It could then come down to who can lobby the hardest (i.e. pass more money over) - multi billionaire business owners or the JAUPT.
Ah… I have to take issue there, JAUPT are nothing but a bunch of auditors, they have no millions to throw around.
And I don’t see that any wealthy business owners are going to care - DCPC is in the legislation, even if the petition did manage to be raised in Parliament, all it takes is a few choice words in the right ear, no money involved, no massive effort:
“I say, Mr/Mrs/Ms MP for Wealthy Cotswolds Constituency, those awful (but clearly necessary as we now realise) lorry drivers are getting a bit uppity, do you want to repeal this legislation? Or do you want their juggernauts bringing down your property values as they thunder through your constituents picture-postcard English villages?”
Harry Monk:
yourhavingalarf:
I’d be slightly more convinced of it’s benefits if there was a pass/fail but, for some reason or other, there isn’t.When I took my Operator’s CPC we discussed the Driver CPC and the instructor said that the reason there isn’t a pass/fail element is because of how disastrous it would be to the industry if 40% of drivers were taken off the road at a stroke. Which does rather confirm that it is a bit “Mickey Mouse”.
Not only would it take 40% of drivers off the road it would make the job less attractive to new drivers.
Aye, and there’s the rub… I’m not. My DCPC is done up to September 2029, at which point I’ll be approaching 70 and any HGV driving I do will be only occasional.
Well good for you, i feel sorry for all the new drivers who will have to pay for this nonsense out of their own pockets for many years to come.
There’s a lot that should be changed in the industry, scrapping DCPC is not one of them for me, changing it would be a topic that I would find of significant interest.
Changing it has been mentioned and i am all for that if scrapping it for experienced drivers is not going to happen (which is highly unlikely) 7 hours sitting through the same ■■■■■ you have done before is not helpful to anyone and lets be honest the instructors could do it in half the time but they have to pad it out to last 7 hours as that is what we are forced to do to get the 35 in.
When i first started this job i had to do 5 days straight it was torture we did the same stuff over and over as new people came on the curse every day, why they didn’t split off the drivers who had not done a single DCPC and were there for the full 5 days allowing them to go through a new subject every day is beyond me, if i had been paying for it out of my own pocket i would not have been happy.
D.Thompson:
7 hours sitting through the same [zb] you have done before
Then you should choose a different training provider or different course.
When i first started this job i had to do 5 days straight it was torture we did the same stuff over and over as new people came on the curse every day,
Again, choose a different training provider, most are not likely to have done that. That is why people should give recommendations - but most won’t.
What most drivers don’t understand is that the DCPC course aren’t handed out by DVSA or JAUPT, they’re created by each training provider separately: some care, some don’t, some put a lot of effort into it, some just slap some old nonsense together.
A decent trainer or teacher is not entirely dissimilar to a good musician, they’re putting on a type of rehearsed performance. So in a way going on a course can be seen as comparable to seeing a live band. I have a relative who is both a teacher and a live musician, all the other teachers are full of compliments about his classes, but he treats teaching like doing a gig, the other teachers are so bound up in their lesson plans they can’t get their head around his ability to engage with his class (audience).
I’ve sat through god-awful gigs just because one of my mates simply opened the music listings of the local rag and stuck a pin into who-was-on-where. If you don’t exercise choice you’ll end up watching Duncan and the Doughnuts instead of seeing some really kicking band (Kaiser Chiefs comes to mind) who’re just doing their last few local pub gigs before making the big time (I’m going back in time a bit but the principle is timeless)
I don’t expect to change anyone’s minds about DCPC, but that petition is going nowhere.
Zac_A:
Our MPs are by a large, a right shower, you’ll get no argument from me there. Where I would disagree with you is thinking that they care, about the haulage industry, or about anyone but theirselves and their political careers and (probably more importantly) their post-political career financial opportunities. Just look at David Cameron resurfacing mired in scandal.
I agree. Our MP’s do not care but they most likely have been voting on something they do not understand.
Once they realise the CPC is not the great educational & training safety scheme they have been led to believe they will be less worried about going against it. I have written to my MP today to make sure she is fully aware there is no testing requirement at all for the ‘qualification’.
Ah… I have to take issue there, JAUPT are nothing but a bunch of auditors, they have no millions to throw around…
I know. I was using sarcasm to suggest who would be the obvious winners!
And I don’t see that any wealthy business owners are going to care - DCPC is in the legislation, even if the petition did manage to be raised in Parliament, all it takes is a few choice words in the right ear, no money involved, no massive effort:
The wealthy business owners want their goods delivered for the lowest price.
If the DCPC is adding to the driver shortage, which in turn is delaying getting their goods to market & increasing the cost to do so, then they have a very big interest in the matter.
I am still very pessimistic on the chances of getting the DCPC removed but if ever we had a chance it is now whilst it is showing it is reducing the driver supply pool.
Zac_A:
D.Thompson:
7 hours sitting through the same [zb] you have done beforeThen you should choose a different training provider or different course.
Our company sends us to the same place all the time they know its a waster of time but they couldnt give a rats ■■■ as long as the boxes are ticked.
I don’t expect to change anyone’s minds about DCPC, but that petition is going nowhere.
You may be right but at least thise who have signed it have done something to try to change it.
Signed it anyway just in case…, the thought of being bored off my ■■■■ yet again for another x no of hours sitting through all that ■■■■■■■■ fills me with dread . +1
I think that I may be in the minority here as I don’t really mind attending my annual drudge fest of CPC training. It’s probably easier because I get paid to attend and don’t actually pay for the course. I just see it as 8 hours chilling and having a laugh without having to go on the roads to do battle with all the maniacs.
Granted, apart from really useful gems like how many people were killed or injured in 2013 I’ve not actually learned anything useful, but perhaps that’s because I view it as part of my job to keep abreast of legislative changes etc.
I do think that it should be a prerequisite for new passes but apart from that I view it as ineffective generally.
the maoster:
I think that I may be in the minority here as I don’t really mind attending my annual drudge fest of CPC training. It’s probably easier because I get paid to attend and don’t actually pay for the course. I just see it as 8 hours chilling and having a laugh without having to go on the roads to do battle with all the maniacs.Granted, apart from really useful gems like how many people were killed or injured in 2013 I’ve not actually learned anything useful, but perhaps that’s because I view it as part of my job to keep abreast of legislative changes etc.
I do think that it should be a prerequisite for new passes but apart from that I view it as ineffective generally.
I agree with the old timer here 
it’s amazing what others don’t know once the bull is out the way on these courses 
Damned by faint praise! Cheers Dan.
I think 
It’s not just the newbies, there’s shedloads of experienced drivers who don’t know stuff they should, eg not hooking your ratchet straps onto your ropehooks 
Guaranteed “unsecured load” from DVSA
Do you have to go on the same course every 5 years in many other line of work? Do brickies have to pay to sit in a class for 35 hours while some fat bloke on a video says “This is a brick. And this is mortar”.