Hello there, think I know the answer to this one,but just checking, my friend works at a timber yard and has his c1 c1e on grandfather rights, he used to drive there 7.5 tonners now and then, they haven’t put him through cpc, he has a company vehicle for work and every now and then they tell him to go home in 7.5 t, when he protests no cpc they say hes ok as its empty and hes only driving it home so no problem, its a good firm I just think they are misinformed, what do you think?
eddster1979:
Hello there, think I know the answer to this one,but just checking, my friend works at a timber yard and has his c1 c1e on grandfather rights, he used to drive there 7.5 tonners now and then, they haven’t put him through cpc, he has a company vehicle for work and every now and then they tell him to go home in 7.5 t, when he protests no cpc they say hes ok as its empty and hes only driving it home so no problem, its a good firm I just think they are misinformed, what do you think?
Technically because it’s not for hire/reward (whatever the phrase is) I think he’s ok, I might be wrong but I’m sure someone will be along to correct me
Taken from gov.uk
- When you don’t need Driver CPC
You might not need Driver Certificate of Professional Competence (CPC), even if you’re driving a large goods vehicle or passenger-carrying vehicle. It depends on:the vehicle
what the vehicle is being used for
Vehicles you can drive without Driver CPC
You don’t need Driver CPC if the vehicle you drive is:being road tested after repair, maintenance or technical development
new or rebuilt and not been put into service yet
limited to a top speed of 28mph
Vehicle uses where you don’t need Driver CPCYou don’t need Driver CPC if the vehicle you drive is:
used for non-commercial carriage of passengers or goods for personal use
used to carry material or equipment you use for your job - but driving the vehicle can’t be the main part of your job
used for driving lessons for anyone who wants to get a driving licence or a Driver CPC
used by, or is under the control of, the armed forces, civil defence, the fire service and forces responsible for maintaining public order
used in states of emergency or for rescue missions
driven to or from pre-booked appointments at official testing centres
driven within 50km of your base, is not carrying passengers or goods, and driving a lorry, bus or coach is not your main job
You can read detailed examples of Driver CPC exemptions.
eddster1979:
Hello there, think I know the answer to this one,but just checking, my friend works at a timber yard and has his c1 c1e on grandfather rights, he used to drive there 7.5 tonners now and then, they haven’t put him through cpc, he has a company vehicle for work and every now and then they tell him to go home in 7.5 t, when he protests no cpc they say hes ok as its empty and hes only driving it home so no problem, its a good firm I just think they are misinformed, what do you think?
This may cover him.
driven within 50km of your base, is not carrying passengers or goods, and driving a lorry, bus or coach is not your main job.
I don’t think they could claim he’s exempt on the basis of using the vehicle for private use, I assume his company vehicle is part of his remuneration package so I would say it’s definitely being used commercially.
I do however agree that if he lives within 50 km of where he starts the journey home and returns to for the next shift he would be exempt from the DCPC as long as the vehicle is empty.
Having said that I believe there could possibly be insurance issues with taking the vehicle home, but that would depend on the insurance cover I suppose.
tachograph:
I don’t think they could claim he’s exempt on the basis of using the vehicle for private use, I assume his company vehicle is part of his remuneration package so I would say it’s definitely being used commercially.
Very grey area because that would mean a driver who did have that as part of a package could never use it privately even on their days off and I cannot believe that would be the case
ROG:
tachograph:
I don’t think they could claim he’s exempt on the basis of using the vehicle for private use, I assume his company vehicle is part of his remuneration package so I would say it’s definitely being used commercially.Very grey area because that would mean a driver who did have that as part of a package could never use it privately even on their days off and I cannot believe that would be the case
He’s using the 7.5t vehicle because he’s being instructed to, I don’t see that as being the same as having a company vehicle that your contract says you can also use in your own time, I agree that it could be argued as a bit of a grey area though.
There’s no deliverery or collection involved so not needing Dcpc
hitch:
There’s no deliverery or collection involved so not needing Dcpc
So at Howdens, because I’m not collecting a load and I’m taking what I’m carrying to do a trailer swap for an empty trailer I don’t need a DCPC? Sure?
I think he’s OK without the DCPC.
It’s an empty vehicle. He’s not employed as a driver. It is actually private use I suppose. There are more reasons for no CPC than for having a CPC
There are other potential issues for the company to account for mileage and why the vehicle isn’t parked at the operating centre.
And as he has his card in the tacho is he being paid to travel and at what rate ?
And WTD about hours just may come into play too.
This is a minefield that more than likely will bite him.
He is not parking at his operating centre for a start.He must use a tacho no 2. He still needs to do dcpc .The co and him fail.
He does not need cpc! You can even drive 7.5 tonnes with no tachometer even if it’s fitted with one within a certain distance, which infact is being increased to something like 60 or 80km radius on gb rules. Scaffolders driving hgv’s , crane drivers on cat c don’t need cpc as driving is not there main job. Your putting full time hgv driving transport regs on to things that arent under it.
tachograph:
I don’t think they could claim he’s exempt on the basis of using the vehicle for private use, I assume his company vehicle is part of his remuneration package so I would say it’s definitely being used commercially.I do however agree that if he lives within 50 km of where he starts the journey home and returns to for the next shift he would be exempt from the DCPC as long as the vehicle is empty.
Having said that I believe there could possibly be insurance issues with taking the vehicle home, but that would depend on the insurance cover I suppose.
I would not want to pay the company car tax on that… Taking home a company vehicle put you at risk of this even if it is minimal use
How about this grey area cpc needed scenario chaps?-
Recovery truck 7.5t flat bed, taxed & reg’d as recovery, plated & not on an O licence, small garage owned, used (rarely) to collect dead cars for the garage to fix (truck is mainly used for the Garage owner to move his race car about at wk ends) (& yes they are well aware they can’t legally deliver cars back to customer after fixing them without sticking it on an O licence) this is not a commerical recovery operation.
Gov.uk says-
Vehicles carrying material or equipment to be used in the course of the driver’s work
You don’t need Driver CPC if you’re carrying equipment or material that you’ll use in the course of your work, provided that driving the vehicle is not the main part of your job.
This includes:
trade tools
goods such as building materials or cables to be used by the driver in the course of their work
Driver B is a self-employed bricklayer and drives their lorry to a building site with a load of bricks. They unload the bricks and use them in the construction of a house. They don’t need to have Driver CPC because driving the lorry is not their main activity and they’re carrying materials for their use in the course of bricklaying.
Driver J is employed as a mechanic by a transport company. As part of their responsibilities they drive a lorry containing tools and equipment needed to change wheels at the roadside. They don’t need to have Driver CPC because driving is not their main activity and they’re carrying tools and materials to be used in the course of their work.
To me if the man who drives the truck whos a mechanic by trade so his main job is not driving & will be the man fixing it, rather than a dedicated recovery truck driver, he’s exempt?
iguana:
To me if the man who drives the truck whos a mechanic by trade so his main job is not driving & will be the man fixing it, rather than a dedicated recovery truck driver, he’s exempt?
Mmmmm I don’t think I agree with your take on things. He isn’t carrying tools or equipment or supplies to be used by him - he’s carrying a broken down car and acting as a recovery mechanic. I would suggest DCPC is required.
If he was carrying just tools or a welder or crane etc then yes exempt.
iguana:
How about this grey area cpc needed scenario chaps?-Recovery truck 7.5t flat bed, taxed & reg’d as recovery, plated & not on an O licence, small garage owned, used (rarely) to collect dead cars for the garage to fix (truck is mainly used for the Garage owner to move his race car about at wk ends) (& yes they are well aware they can’t legally deliver cars back to customer after fixing them without sticking it on an O licence) this is not a commerical recovery operation.
Gov.uk says-
Vehicles carrying material or equipment to be used in the course of the driver’s work
You don’t need Driver CPC if you’re carrying equipment or material that you’ll use in the course of your work, provided that driving the vehicle is not the main part of your job.
This includes:
trade tools
goods such as building materials or cables to be used by the driver in the course of their work
Driver B is a self-employed bricklayer and drives their lorry to a building site with a load of bricks. They unload the bricks and use them in the construction of a house. They don’t need to have Driver CPC because driving the lorry is not their main activity and they’re carrying materials for their use in the course of bricklaying.
Driver J is employed as a mechanic by a transport company. As part of their responsibilities they drive a lorry containing tools and equipment needed to change wheels at the roadside. They don’t need to have Driver CPC because driving is not their main activity and they’re carrying tools and materials to be used in the course of their work.To me if the man who drives the truck whos a mechanic by trade so his main job is not driving & will be the man fixing it, rather than a dedicated recovery truck driver, he’s exempt?
Legally I don’t think you can do that either, not really recovering it are you 