Noremac:
Franglais:
Forget fretting to the nth degree whether any particular death is/isnt due to Covid! There are many thousands more deaths, in the UK and all over the world than there should be.
…It is that simple…
Yeah, whatever Franglais, keep taking the tablets.
It is that simple isn’t it? Or is it?
High excess deaths may be followed by years of not so high deaths, meaning a few died earlier than expected, due to coronavirus, a bad flu year etc. If Covid-19 persists, it could permanently reduce life expectancy. This essentially amounts to the prevailing conditions with which we have to deal with. We can mitigate through science and behaviour, but essentially that is what these generations are dealing with. There is no given right for life expectancy to always rise.
Not sure what you are getting at with the world wars comparison. As we know many of the lads that went were tragically young who hadn’t had a life yet. Thankfully that isn’t what is happening now.
Noremac:
Yeah, whatever Franglais, keep taking the tablets.
Well thanks for the considered and reasoned response…
Noremac:
It is that simple isn’t it?
Yes it is.
Noremac:
High excess deaths may be followed by years of not so high deaths, meaning a few died earlier than expected, due to coronavirus, a bad flu year etc. If Covid-19 persists, it could permanently reduce life expectancy.
So where is that evident on the graphs?
There are 3 noticeable spikes: WW1-ish WW2-ish and now… so no spikes anywhere near as high. There will be variation and noise but nowhere near as big as the curent spike. You are, for some reason I can`t fathom, seeming to deny what is in plain sight.
Noremac:
There is no given right for life expectancy to always rise
Nowhere have I mentioned life expectancy, and don`t know why you are? Trying to muddy a clear picture with diversions?
Noremac:
Not sure what you are getting at with the world wars comparison
To show how big the current spike is. It is NOT a variation that we have seen before. As I say above.
Franglais,
If a higher than expected number of elderly or frail people die in a 12-18 month period (and a few younger people before you say anything), they are not subsequently going to die when they otherwise would have. I don’t need a graph to be able to say that.
You would need to be on Mars not to know there has been a spike in deaths. What do you want me to say? Ok, yes Franglais, there has been a spike in deaths, there you go.
Again, I don’t see what the world wars have to do with it.
Regarding life expectancy, you have said the following:
Franglais:
There are many thousands more deaths, in the UK and all over the world than there should be.
Well, when the experts decide how many deaths there “should be”, life expectancy is part of that equation I am fairly sure. When the same is decided next year, the people that have already died are out of the equation, and it will be the current situation that is relevant, which will include how old the population is.
I reserve my right to mention life expectancy in a thread even if you haven’t. No waters muddied here.
If we get…
To 50 pages, can we all agree to disagree?
bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-57958358
Noremac:
Franglais,
If a higher than expected number of elderly or frail people die in a 12-18 month period (and a few younger people before you say anything), they are not subsequently going to die when they otherwise would have. I don’t need a graph to be able to say that.
You would need to be on Mars not to know there has been a spike in deaths. What do you want me to say? Ok, yes Franglais, there has been a spike in deaths, there you go.
Again, I don’t see what the world wars have to do with it.
Regarding life expectancy, you have said the following:
Franglais:
There are many thousands more deaths, in the UK and all over the world than there should be.
Well, when the experts decide how many deaths there “should be”, life expectancy is part of that equation I am fairly sure. When the same is decided next year, the people that have already died are out of the equation, and it will be the current situation that is relevant, which will include how old the population is.
I reserve my right to mention life expectancy in a thread even if you haven’t. No waters muddied here.
Firstly, I was wrong to use the phrase “should be” regarding projected deaths. If this was a book mu editors would have seen that, or if it was a treatise I would correctly have been marked down. Since it was a post Ill aoplogise and say I should have said "expected" or "projected" rather than "should be". Secondly, "life expectancy" does have a relationship with death rates, yes. But it is not a simple one and if you wish to discuss that carry on. I havent said you shouldnt discuss that if you wish, but I think it is an unnecessary diversion from the simple fact that the worlds death rate is spiking and there is no apparent reason except Covid.
Noremac:
If a higher than expected number of elderly or frail people die in a 12-18 month period (and a few younger people before you say anything), they are not subsequently going to die when they otherwise would have. I don’t need a graph to be able to say that.
No.
All age groups except under 14s show increased mortality rates recently. There is a decrease in under 14s.
The fact that there are more in older age groups does not mean that there is no increase in other age groups.
yourhavingalarf:
If we get…
To 50 pages, can we all agree to disagree?
bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-57958358
If anything that proves the point of scaremongering nicely. Pneumonia is usually caused by a bacterial infection, sometimes maybe by a virus. This article is supposed to prove how stupid anti vaccine is and how anybody can die of covid so we should all be terrified and get our vaccines. What it really shows is the level of deception and how gullible the majority are. You don’t know this guys medical history, chances are he’s contracted pneumonia anyway and ended up getting covid whilst in hospital so covid not being the cause of death. It just nicely fits the agenda to hype this story and the brainwashed lap it up. Pre 2019 pneumonia Uk deaths were around 20000 a year, now it’s less than a thousand, pretty sure it will be same story in USA. But yet again the brainwashed can’t see through the lies
ArcticMonkey:
Franglais:
ArcticMonkey:
Franglais:
You could defend Hartley-Brewer if you consider she is correct.
Posting a list of lies by others in no way makes anything H-B says more true does it? Absolute waste of time, I would agree.
You could equally condemn H-B and TalkRadio for their lies? I certainly condemn lies and deceit from all sources, be it H-B, BBC or anyone.
That wouldn`t take all weekend.
So because you post a link from Full Fact stating JHB was lying then their word is gospel. Ful Fact employ most of their people who used to work for the bbc or other left wing rags.
This company is primarily funded by big tech. These self appointed fact checkers for the nation are not to be trusted as much as you would think
Again you are failing to defend what H-B said, be it in error or deliberately.
She was in the wrong, as Prof Spiegelhalter explained. I don’t say FullFact are infallible, but on this occasion they are demonstrably correct.
FullFact are a charity so must be non political. They were started by a Conservative party donor and researcher. Funding is open and transparent. If you or anyone thinks they are biased they can complain to the Charity Commissioners. I don’t think any party has done so? They should be subject to scrutiny of course, but someone randomly saying they are biased, without providing evidence, is hardly that.
.
Edit to add>>
Funding of FullFact etc.
If private funding (via charities) is such a problem, then who should pay?
Government? 
Is this enough evidence Franglais?
thecritic.co.uk/how-neutral-is-full-fact/
mol.im/a/7706715
Can give you some more evidence if required
Interesting read, but, evidence? Where?
The Critic piece makes a critcism of the way FullFact is funded but makes no suggestion of how it could be improved.
It also says that “Perhaps none of this would matter if their day-to-day staff also included former Telegraph or Mail journalists”
An improvement would be to employ those who have left right wing biased papers? Arguable, maybe…But those two particular sources are not generally very accurate. Balance searching for unbiased truth with open bias and inaccuracy? Don`t think so.
Neither piece shows any instances of bias by FullFact that I can see? So if you could point out what I`m missing?
Franglais:
but I think it is an unnecessary diversion from the simple fact that the world`s death rate is spiking and there is no apparent reason except Covid.
Franglais, the world’s death rate is spiking (which I have never denied btw). What do you want me to do about it? These are the prevailing conditions these generations are dealing with. You make it seem like I am denying Covid-19 or something. I am double-jabbed, I wear a face mask and I take every precaution I can with what I am doing.
I largely agree with you for goodness sake. I did pick you up on the fact that it isn’t quite “that simple”. Effectively because a high death rate now will mean that in the future those people won’t die again. This is just a hard fact, for every birth there is a death. Sometimes these deaths happen earlier than we expected, but in one, two or three years some of the ones that were elderly, would have sadly passed away. There isn’t really much getting away from that.
I know about the younger Covid-19 victims. They may well have gone on to lead long and full lives. Nobody is sadder about that than me. However, at some point in the future they won’t be elderly and they won’t die at an advanced age. A higher death rate now will inevitably mean a lower one at some point in the future.
I do hope that the vaccines reduce the mortality rates and we don’t end up seeing lower life expectancy longer term. If we do, that is unfortunately what these generations will have to deal with.
Get it, got it, good!
Noremac:
Get it, got it, good!
Almost…
But I won`t say “yes” yet. 
Noremac:
but in one, two or three years some of the ones that were elderly, would have sadly passed away
Yes, the elderly have a shorter projected future life expectancy.
But, 1, 2, or 3 years?
What is elderly? 75?
A 75 year male today has life expectancy of?
ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulation … 2019-06-07
News flash…
Strangers on the internet have zero influence on public policy.
Droning on and on and on and on at random members of the public does not prove/re-inforce/verify your case.
Quoting alleged fact after fact, sets of figures, counter argument after counter argument and website links is just tedious and boring.
yourhavingalarf:
News flash…
Strangers on the internet have zero influence on public policy.
Droning on and on and on and on at random members of the public does not prove/re-inforce/verify your case.
Quoting alleged fact after fact, sets of figures, counter argument after counter argument and website links is just tedious and boring.
Who here, from any angle, has said they expect to have influence over public policy?
Telling people who are interested in a subject, that you are not interested in said subject is fruitful then?
I chose not to respond to the football threads in Bully`s. What about you?
yourhavingalarf:
News flash…
Strangers on the internet have zero influence on public policy.
Droning on and on and on and on at random members of the public does not prove/re-inforce/verify your case.
Quoting alleged fact after fact, sets of figures, counter argument after counter argument and website links is just tedious and boring.
Its better than the usual threads asking how long the prison sentence is for doing over 4.30 drive or how do I get from Bristol to London
Franglais:
Yes, the elderly have a shorter projected future life expectancy.
But, 1, 2, or 3 years?
What is elderly? 75?
A 75 year male today has life expectancy of?
ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulation … 2019-06-07
What point are you trying to make here Franglais? If you are labelling 75 as elderly, then everyone over that age would be elderly, not just the ones aged 75.
That’s it, I’m signing off of this thread now so the floor is all yours.
Indeed, if the thread is of no interest, or even boring or actually annoys one, why read it let alone post on it.
It comes under free speech, which thankfully this forum observes, it has certain obvious and sensible guidelines but stay within those and, especially on Bully’s, you can speak about pretty much anything, and i for one am grateful for such places seeing how in much of the social media world censorship of views disagreeing with the narrative of the day is increasing at an alarming rate.
Noremac:
Franglais:
Yes, the elderly have a shorter projected future life expectancy.
But, 1, 2, or 3 years?
What is elderly? 75?
A 75 year male today has life expectancy of?
ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulation … 2019-06-07
What point are you trying to make here Franglais? If you are labelling 75 as elderly, then everyone over that age would be elderly, not just the ones aged 75.
That’s it, I’m signing off of this thread now so the floor is all yours.
To answer your query: for a life expectancy of 3 years (since that is the figure you mentioned) a UK male would already be 95 years old. Those of 75? may be considered elderly by many, but Covid taking far more than 2 or 3 years from them.
I’ve had…
Both jabs and my phone signal is still crap.
yourhavingalarf:
I’ve had…
Both jabs and my phone signal is still crap.
I hope you wasting money on a 3 year contract.
Yes Karen…
Bill Gates is highly interested in your day to day movements and would like to track exactly when you walk the kids to school, walk to the shop, walk home, walk back to pick the kids up, walk back home, watch love island, all while never removing your pyjamas and still smelling like last nights takeaway.
Juddian:
Indeed, if the thread is of no interest, or even boring or actually annoys one, why read it let alone post on it.
It comes under free speech, which thankfully this forum observes, it has certain obvious and sensible guidelines but stay within those and, especially on Bully’s, you can speak about pretty much anything, and i for one am grateful for such places seeing how in much of the social media world censorship of views disagreeing with the narrative of the day is increasing at an alarming rate.
Enjoy it while it lasts. The segregation is coming where the unstabbed will be treated as lower class citizens and denied access to products, services and a right to work which we have taken for granted throughout our lifetime thus far. There will be a medical apartheid in the UK and many other countries.
Lockdowns will return later this year which will be blamed on the unstabbed being asymptomatic carriers and “super-spreaders” to turn the stabbed against the unstabbed and shame them into getting the gene modification therapy.
Watch.
DCPCFML:
Juddian:
Indeed, if the thread is of no interest, or even boring or actually annoys one, why read it let alone post on it.
It comes under free speech, which thankfully this forum observes, it has certain obvious and sensible guidelines but stay within those and, especially on Bully’s, you can speak about pretty much anything, and i for one am grateful for such places seeing how in much of the social media world censorship of views disagreeing with the narrative of the day is increasing at an alarming rate.
Enjoy it while it lasts. The segregation is coming where the unstabbed will be treated as lower class citizens and denied access to products, services and a right to work which we have taken for granted throughout our lifetime thus far. There will be a medical apartheid in the UK and many other countries.
Lockdowns will return later this year which will be blamed on the unstabbed being asymptomatic carriers and “super-spreaders” to turn the stabbed against the unstabbed and shame them into getting the gene modification therapy.
Watch.
Just stay…
Home for the rest of your life then.
Problem solved.
) into football grounds.