I say bring back the old Eaton Twin Splitter ,
a real mans gearbox !!!
Winseer:
newmercman:
Winseer:
When driving an Actros, you get this E “Eco drive” thing when going along that basically feels like you’ve pulled the thing out of gear, and you’re rolling along the flat/downhill with the exhaust brake cutting in automatically when the time comes. Uphill will have it pulling as normal of course.My argument is this:
I was always told on my driving lessions that “if you trundle along out of gear, then it’s instant test fail, because you’re not in control of the vehicle. Imagine if you had to do an emergency stop?”
Just how likely is “running yourself over with a heavy loaded trailer” or “jackknifing” or “taking a longer stopping distance” because of the mechanics of an auto-gearbox…?
Then there’s trying to pull onto an uphill slope onto a roundabout sporting an adverse camber, carrying a load that’s a bit weighty/toppy…
I dunno about you folks out there, but I prefer a geared vehicle if I know I’ve got a lot of the more dodgy kind of roundabout to negotiate on my run…You need to learn how to drive an AMT properly and then you wouldn’t have any problems.
The clue is in the name. Automated Manual Transmission. Not Automatic, so you should still be using the manual part, the automated part just makes that easier…
If the suggestion is you can drive an AMT better than I can boot around a manual as a control freak, then more power to you.
I’ll give you “My AMT’s better than your AMT”, but that’s it.
I have already said I don’t like the feeling of “no control” when using the actros fancies. I don’t know if Fleetboard will also mark you down for doing things like touching the brakes in the roadworks because you’re drifting up someone’s arse, etc etc. I like to be safe first, worry about saving fuel later if it comes down to that. I guess most of my “waste” is tapping the brakes to put a decent distance between myself and the vehicle in front, especially when someone invariably enters the “idiot space”. AMTs are easy to handle on a deserted motorway in the middle of the night. Not so easy in London or through heavy traffic though.
You are totally missing the point!
An AMT left in auto mode will always be a compromise, it cannot see, so it will do what is programmed to do. A driver however, can see and should switch to manual mode and intervene when necessary to ensure that they are in the correct gear for the conditions.
So yes, I would be better than you, if you just let it do its thing, you’re going to achieve no more than a trained chimp would be able to do.
The AMT situation is the same as the speed limiter thing, twenty years on and far too many drivers still don’t know how to drive a lorry with a speed limiter properly, so why should an autoshifter be any different…
Hi, NMM
I seem to remember that we had a similar thread about a year ago.
IMO an auto box should make a driver better cos he’s one less thing to do (change gear ) so a bit more of his time can be used to do other things ( mirror ,signal manouvre, for example ).
The majority of AMT boxes have a manual default which can be used or not whichever you feel is appropriate at the time. Manual selection will give you total control, but I think will be slightly worse on fuel consumption, auto will level most things out,possibly why in some cases they are known as “idiot boxes”,and whilst they say a good driver can beat an auto box for fuel ,he’s got to work at it and be on top of his game. An auto box will give an average driver almost the same results but in an easier manner, A driver should be able to go from one auto box truck to another and achieve similar results from both,which is why big fleets like them.
It didn’t bother me whether a truck was manual or auto, but i will admit that if a lot of the work was urban /town centre based I’d prefer an auto, but if I was trunking up and down the motorway I’d probably opt for a manual just for something to do now and again, and if it came to choice I’d be hard put to choose between the venerable Eaton Twin Splitter and the cream of the auto-boxes ,the I-Shift.
Mentioning the I-Shift, not wanting to be accused of trying to tell fellow drivers how to ■■■■ eggs, you may ,or may not , be aware that if you leave the engine brake in the No. 1 position the Eco- Roll facility will not engage,but in doing so you are depriving yourself of a great fuel saving advantage.
I look forward to more on this thread.
Cheers Bassman
^^^ this ^^^
It takes quite a lot of skills to drive an auto properly. My guess for example would be that most guys just have the pedal to the metal without thinking a ■■■■ when accelerating. You need to do a lot of footwork to get good gear changes and good fuel. For example most auto boxes change up if you lift the foot up for a second. 90% of the time there is no need for pedal to the metal. When only using half gas for example the box normally will change up at 1300 instead of taking it to 1500 for no reason. When starting from standstill just use 1/4 of the gas and it will no take the ■■■■ out the low gears. Approaching roundabout, junctions, lift of 700m before, pull the exhaust brake when there are a couple of 100m left, switch over to manual so it doesn’t change gear and throw away fuel and back to auto just before stopping. Voila no need for new brakes in the trucks hole life. We have many trucks that have been sold with original brakes still on and around 1,3 million km on the clock.
Auto will run much cheaper than a manual but you do really have to work, not just sit on the cruiser.
I normally have the live fuel consumption gauge on the screen when running. There are so many times if you run on the cruiser that you can coast and instead the cruiser is using 10l/100km (sorry don’t feel like converting). Since when you have put some miles on the motorway you get quite blind and think it’s going up or is flat when it might be slight down hill then the live gage is in much help
This week with a tuned 620 I have 8,85mpg(uk) running Norway with around 50t gross (3000km so far)
^^^^and this^^^^
I hate auto boxes, they’re just another example of dumbing-down. Every one I’ve driven has annoyed me in one way or another. I see what people mean about using the manual mode, but why should I? Our motors were specced by accountants, if they think they know more about truck driving than me, fine, I’ll just clog it and let the vehicle sort it out.
The fact that they’re constant-mesh just irritates me even more, knowing how to use a manual one was a skill and a pleasure once you mastered them.
If manual mode is disabled then I totally agree with you, but if it still has manual mode enabled then you should, as a professional driver, do the best you can, so manual gear selection would be part of that!
Good topic(s) for discussion.
Do you think that lorry drivers are crashing more because they are obsessed with being on the limiter, even when it means driving 2 meters away from the lorry in front? Is it because of trying to make stupidly unrealistic booking in times?
Our fleet are limited to 88kph, and I keep a wee bit in reserve for speedier overtaking, like when I come up behind Tescos, Brakes, Nissan Micras, also the speed merchants can wiz past.
I can’t see how cruise or auto boxes cause crashes, just a gut feeling. I have had to change my driving style because of the auto box with no manual override. It can be annoying when it changes up a gear just as you hit the bottom of a slope, but the daf has so much body roll I need one hand for the wheel and the other one to hang on to the chair, so don’t have any spare for gear changes.
limeyphil:
Far too many people are coming into this job with their eyes closed. They think it is just a job that can be learned from a book and a few lessons. It isn’t, It’s a way of life.
A way of life that needs people that can adapt and evolve. There is a saying, “there are drivers and there are Drivers”. Some will obey every rule because it’s a rule, Some will put driving to a high standard above rules and regulations. This is what a professional will do.
I’m not just talking about tacho rules and that sort of thing, I’m also refering to company policy. Midlifetrucker refered to having 30 minutes shuteye, It was also mentioned that some firms would need a stewards enquiry if one of their drivers did this out of scope of company policy.
Some trunker drivers will change their mundane route to take the monotiny out of it to stay more alert, They may change their route to avoid congestion, But some drivers will go where the office tells them, by the route they say, and at what time of day or night they say.As for me, i prefer an auto in the UK due to the congestion. But i much prefer a manual on the continent, It makes no odds on the flat, but a hell of a difference on the mountains.
Well put…by a Professional driver by the way its written, I think it should be compulsory for C+ E drivers to do a time shunting before being allowed out on the road fully loaded at 44ton in earnest, when the only artic you have driven was an empty single axle flat. How many drivers here have a C+E licence and have not driven a real manual box with a fully loaded trailer ? Training should be continuous , but only worthwhile training …So we constantly improve our skills and knowledge and our level of Safety.
We ALL deserve to go home fit and healthy at the end of the week !
3 wheeler:
limeyphil:
Far too many people are coming into this job with their eyes closed. They think it is just a job that can be learned from a book and a few lessons. It isn’t, It’s a way of life.
A way of life that needs people that can adapt and evolve. There is a saying, “there are drivers and there are Drivers”. Some will obey every rule because it’s a rule, Some will put driving to a high standard above rules and regulations. This is what a professional will do.
I’m not just talking about tacho rules and that sort of thing, I’m also refering to company policy. Midlifetrucker refered to having 30 minutes shuteye, It was also mentioned that some firms would need a stewards enquiry if one of their drivers did this out of scope of company policy.
Some trunker drivers will change their mundane route to take the monotiny out of it to stay more alert, They may change their route to avoid congestion, But some drivers will go where the office tells them, by the route they say, and at what time of day or night they say.As for me, i prefer an auto in the UK due to the congestion. But i much prefer a manual on the continent, It makes no odds on the flat, but a hell of a difference on the mountains.
Well put…by a Professional driver by the way its written, I think it should be compulsory for C+ E drivers to do a time shunting before being allowed out on the road fully loaded at 44ton in earnest, when the only artic you have driven was an empty single axle flat. How many drivers here have a C+E licence and have not driven a real manual box with a fully loaded trailer ? Training should be continuous , but only worthwhile training …So we constantly improve our skills and knowledge and our level of Safety.
We ALL deserve to go home fit and healthy at the end of the week !
Training has always been continuous for drivers, we used to call it experience. For people who just drive lorries, all the training in the world won’t make them into drivers.
I drive Volvo I-Shift… Not once have I ever thought I wish I was stirring a stick. What’s the point, it doesn’t do anything wrong. I couldn’t do it any better.
I shift is the best and i only intervene with mine in very tough terrain and when i go off road.
kr79:
I shift is the best and i only intervene with mine in very tough terrain and when i go off road.
Renault is better imho, much faster and smoother changes. In fact I’d even go so far as to say the Merc auto is quicker to change than the Volvo too. They’re all a nice change and auto boxes in trucks have come a long way over the past decade. I hope the trend continues and we see even more improvements.
I found the first time i drove a limited truck i got tired really quickly. compared to my old unlimited one that i would trundle along at 65 on the M40, suddenly i found there was nothing to do except watch the truck that was ahead of me. Passing slower traffic kept you alert i found.
nickyboy:
I found the first time i drove a limited truck i got tired really quickly. compared to my old unlimited one that i would trundle along at 65 on the M40, suddenly i found there was nothing to do except watch the truck that was ahead of me. Passing slower traffic kept you alert i found.
It does. That’s why we were always called middle lane Cloggy or Paddy, if you’re doing a 36 or 48 hour shunt, you need something to keep you awake.
You can sometimes cut corners to get off the motorway for a while, despite risking any being stuck in traffic that might come as a result.
Eg. M4 Londonbound, going to say, Guildford.
Satnav might put you straight down the A329(m) and then the A322 lightwater, but doesn’t warn you about the low bridge at west end. 
You might elect to keep your hightop on some other route, or you might elect to “play it safe” by staying on the M4 all the way to the M25, then down the A3 - despite it being tea time, and the traffic around Thorpe Junction being buggered as it usually is at that time of the day.
In the middle of the night, you might elect to take yet another route, just to keep yourself awake. You won’t be doing this if you’re worried about “fuel bonus” or “actros eco efficiency” or whatever.
My suggestion therefore is that all the fancy whistles and bells don’t achieve a lot towards actual efficiency and road safety. 
The Daf XF I drive has one of those semi auto boxes, but I always drive the truck in the manual setting, just find it easier knowing what gear I’m in. I also find that the fuel consumption is a little better too.
The all-new super-modern Euro 6 DAF XF has gone back to a manual shift as standard
truckingtopics.co.uk/newdafxftestdriv.html
in the UK at least.
GasGas:
The all-new super-modern Euro 6 DAF XF has gone back to a manual shift as standard
…which will promptly be changed to auto on the order spec sheet.