ramone:
Franglais:
And even nearer the issue, today Sir David Norgrove, head of the Office of National Statistics criticized the way the Gov is presenting it’s figures and the way it is counting COVID tests.Well there’s a suprise , another criticising the government. The government are taking advice from so called experts but only last week two of these experts disagreed with the rest and criticised the government. Sky and the BBC get a hold of it and ignore the rest o the experts and concentrate on the two that disagree. If you look on this website how many drivers have different opinions . Just because they disagree it doesn’t mean one is wrong. There’s a hell of a lot of scaremongering going on by the media just like there was with Brexit. The pandemic is easing everyone seems to have different ideas on how to deal with it. Not everyone is right but not everyone is wrong only time will tell. But to criticise every effort just gets tiring.
I believe that it is a democratic right to criticize the Government irrespective of its political hue and what one’s own political bias is. Without the right to criticize we are no better than a totalitarian regime like China. Even without the wonderful benefit of hindsight, personally I think that the government has been found wanting in several aspects of its management of the Coronavirus pandemic. The figures for those who have died bear this out, proportional to population the UK has one of the highest Covid-19 death rates in the world. Again, and personally, I don’t rate Boris Johnson at all, and I said so on the Brexit thread some time ago. I think that he’s a bluster merchant with no grasp of detail, and Sir Keir Starmer soon had his measure at PM’s questions. It is the PM’s remit to consider the advice he receives and act upon it accordingly. The PM stands or falls by the decisions he or she makes and Boris Johnson has been very inconsistent in his decision making.
What also bothers me is the obvious dependence the PM has on Dominic ■■■■■■■■ and this cult of the “advisor” is a worrying trend and these un-elected advisors seem to have far too much to say for themselves. Surely the PM’s advisors should be his Cabinet and senior members of parliament. Boris Johnson should have sacked ■■■■■■■ if only pour encouage les autres. This was poor and weak leadership and ■■■■■■■ will now believe that he’s unassailable. The other worrying thing is that there is no other obvious up and coming cabinet member who is PM material for the future. I do fear that with Boris Johnson in charge there are very difficult times ahead for all of us. I sincerely hope that I’m wrong.
Surely the PM’s advisors should be his Cabinet and senior members of parliament. Boris Johnson should have sacked ■■■■■■■ if only pour encouage les autres. This was poor and weak leadership and ■■■■■■■ will now believe that he’s unassailable. The other worrying thing is that there is no other obvious up and coming cabinet member who is PM material for the future. I do fear that with Boris Johnson in charge there are very difficult times ahead for all of us. I sincerely hope that I’m wrong.
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I agree with this and fear that we do, indeed, face difficult times ahead. I also fear that next year will be extremely difficult for the UK. Whatever your viewpoint was on Brexit I believe an extension after the 31 December cut-off to allow realistic discussions with the EU is the only sensible way. But BoJo seems hell-bent on sending us ill-prepared to our fate.
Dipster:
Surely the PM’s advisors should be his Cabinet and senior members of parliament. Boris Johnson should have sacked ■■■■■■■ if only pour encouage les autres. This was poor and weak leadership and ■■■■■■■ will now believe that he’s unassailable. The other worrying thing is that there is no other obvious up and coming cabinet member who is PM material for the future. I do fear that with Boris Johnson in charge there are very difficult times ahead for all of us. I sincerely hope that I’m wrong.
I agree with this and fear that we do, indeed, face difficult times ahead. I also fear that next year will be extremely difficult for the UK. Whatever your viewpoint was on Brexit I believe an extension after the 31 December cut-off to allow realistic discussions with the EU is the only sensible way. But BoJo seems hell-bent on sending us ill-prepared to our fate.
[/quote]
So there we go again picking up on the negatives. No one on earth knows what causes or cures Covid 19 . Scientists are the ones advising , i’m sure we are better off listening to them than MPs you’ve already said there’s no one in the background worth their salt. But not all scientists agree with each other
ramone:
Dipster:
Surely the PM’s advisors should be his Cabinet and senior members of parliament. Boris Johnson should have sacked ■■■■■■■ if only pour encouage les autres. This was poor and weak leadership and ■■■■■■■ will now believe that he’s unassailable. The other worrying thing is that there is no other obvious up and coming cabinet member who is PM material for the future. I do fear that with Boris Johnson in charge there are very difficult times ahead for all of us. I sincerely hope that I’m wrong.I agree with this and fear that we do, indeed, face difficult times ahead. I also fear that next year will be extremely difficult for the UK. Whatever your viewpoint was on Brexit I believe an extension after the 31 December cut-off to allow realistic discussions with the EU is the only sensible way. But BoJo seems hell-bent on sending us ill-prepared to our fate.
So there we go again picking up on the negatives. No one on earth knows what causes or cures Covid 19 . Scientists are the ones advising , i’m sure we are better off listening to them than MPs you’ve already said there’s no one in the background worth their salt. But not all scientists agree with each other
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So what do you consider the positives?
Dipster:
ramone:
Dipster:
Gingerfold Surely the PM’s advisors should be his Cabinet and senior members of parliament. Boris Johnson should have sacked ■■■■■■■ if only pour encouage les autres. This was poor and weak leadership and ■■■■■■■ will now believe that he’s unassailable. The other worrying thing is that there is no other obvious up and coming cabinet member who is PM material for the future. I do fear that with Boris Johnson in charge there are very difficult times ahead for all of us. I sincerely hope that I’m wrong.Dipster I agree with this and fear that we do, indeed, face difficult times ahead. I also fear that next year will be extremely difficult for the UK. Whatever your viewpoint was on Brexit I believe an extension after the 31 December cut-off to allow realistic discussions with the EU is the only sensible way. But BoJo seems hell-bent on sending us ill-prepared to our fate.
Ramone So there we go again picking up on the negatives. No one on earth knows what causes or cures Covid 19 . Scientists are the ones advising , i’m sure we are better off listening to them than MPs you’ve already said there’s no one in the background worth their salt. But not all scientists agree with each other
Dipster So what do you consider the positives?
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cav 551The only ones which are significant are the actions initiated by by the Chancellor. The rest of Fred Karno’s Army borrow the Official Brain alternately but are unable to answer a direct question. It is very noticeable that only tame poodles are allowed to ask questions of government ministers, those from GMB, Channel 4 and BBC Newsnight are all persona non grata, with only the bravest backbenchers attempting to defend government policy other than in an all chums together atmosphere , in which all truly searching questions are prohibited and irrelevant waffle is never challenged.
We have to ask ourselves whether we want direct honest answers to questions surrounding the issue raised in the link – and indeed other issues- or do we want the same Eton Oxbridge we - know - best sneering dismissal of our genuine concerns, about the risk of a second wave killing those we care about, because the object is to move the discussion on to avoid the continuing awkward questions which just don’t won’t go away?
itv.com/news/2020-06-02/sta … rus-tests/
What do we see as the government’s reaction? the farcical pantomime of MPs queueing around the block to vote because even with a mjority of around 80 the administration if scared that those who had been contributing from home might actually challenge the official plan successfully.
It will be interesting to read the take of the New York Times, Das Bild and Le Figaro tomorrow they will be probably rolling around on the floor laughing at the happenings.
These numbers matter. It isn’t just book keeping.
If we don’t have sufficient tests, we can’t keep an eye on the R number. We NEED lots of tests to get Test And Trace working. If a second wave of infection takes off we won’t see the rise until it already has a grip.
People will die unnecessarily if the Gov gets this wrong.
IMHO I believe they went OTT with the amount of “Furlough” payment ( 80%) as there was no way that at this level is would only last for more than a few months. It would have been far better to have used a figure of say 50% and then it could have lasted far longer if necessary because the way it’s panning out when employers are to be required to cough up a slice of the payment it’s going to turn out to be an unmitigated disaster as the majority of employers will not have the funds and neither might they have the prospect of being able to start their respective businesses up as many will have seen their customer base go up in “smoke”. The outlook is not good ! Cheers Bewick.
Dear Dennis the way I see it the government should have never introduced the furlough scheme, what they should have done was to support companies to work to have social distancing in the work place and alright the production of whatever may have been less but at least they would have kept going.
The problem now is that the weather has been nice and those on furlough dont want to go back and work as they are on the same money for dossing at home. We have a local garage who now has a problem with this as the mechanics are refusing to work, it is a reasonably small concern and in a minuet it will come to the situation where they wont have a job to return too. They are making a big deal of this in the work place but it does not seem to matter to them to jog off down to the seaside, they are treating this as one big holiday, things need to change and PDQ , Buzzer.
Buzzer:
Dear Dennis the way I see it the government should have never introduced the furlough scheme, what they should have done was to support companies to work to have social distancing in the work place and alright the production of whatever may have been less but at least they would have kept going.
The problem now is that the weather has been nice and those on furlough dont want to go back and work as they are on the same money for dossing at home. We have a local garage who now has a problem with this as the mechanics are refusing to work, it is a reasonably small concern and in a minuet it will come to the situation where they wont have a job to return too. They are making a big deal of this in the work place but it does not seem to matter to them to jog off down to the seaside, they are treating this as one big holiday, things need to change and PDQ , Buzzer.
You are right Buzzer the matter could have been handled quite differently and I was only suggesting an alternative to what had been put in place and maybe 50% was a bit on the too generous side ! Plus I should have included the current mindset of many on “the scheme” quite happy to swing the lead until the handout stops and then they’ll start kicking off big time with no job and no handouts ! I recall that at Bewick Transport I always had in place a decent “accident” insurance policy which in the event of an accident ( not sickness) at work they got a weekly payout of 75% of their previous average gross wage for a maximum of 104 weeks. Over the years it worked well as we had the odd mishap and the Driver was off for a month or two and took no harm but there was a couple of times I recall when the individuals concerned were actually off and claimed for the full 104 weeks and on the 105th week they were miraculously fit to resume work ! Cheers Dennis. PS This balls up has basically come about because “the powers that be” i.e. M P’s and Civil Servants have never had a proper job in their cushy lifetime !!
It’s all very well to have a critic of the furlough scheme if your not on the receiving end of it, I was put on this 8 weeks ago even though I had no choice and would rather be driving and have missed it every day since, but if this wasn’t available I could well have been made redundant there and then.
It could still happen though, the company I work for seems to have furloughed the older and more experienced drivers, myself being 52 years old and have rather ironically trained many of my younger colleagues who are still working! I hoping I haven’t forgotten how to drive/reverse an artic when I do hopefully go back…
Sky news this morning reporting that the virus as now spread to isolated parts of the Amazon and the locals are saying its a white mans disease.
For those that like numbers
OFFICIAL Totals for UK to date (REALISTIC NUMBERS ARE HIGHER)
Cases Total 283,311
Deaths 40,261
Deaths 1M pop Population 593
1 Case every 240 people
1 Death every 1686 people
worldometers.info/coronavir … meAdvegas1 (scroll down to see info)
Looks like 1 in 7 that get the virus die from it …
ROG:
For those that like numbersOFFICIAL Totals for UK to date (REALISTIC NUMBERS ARE HIGHER)
Cases Total 283,311
Deaths 40,261
Deaths 1M pop Population 593
1 Case every 240 people
1 Death every 1686 people
worldometers.info/coronavir … meAdvegas1 (scroll down to see info)Looks like 1 in 7 that get the virus die from it …
NO…
EDIT to add.
The main error in your post is the quoted
“Cases Total 283,311”
The UK has, in spite of the spin, a poor record of testing for C19. The quoted number is ONLY laboratory confirmed cases. There have been many other cases that are not lab test confirmed, so your figure of 1 in 7 is wildly pessimistic. Those not badly affected are not counted at all here.
The ONS estimates 7% of the UK population,or about 4.7 million have had C19 by randomized antibody testing.
Taking your 40,000 deaths this gives about 1.2% mortality, or 1 in 80-ish.
Franglais:
ROG:
For those that like numbersOFFICIAL Totals for UK to date (REALISTIC NUMBERS ARE HIGHER)
Cases Total 283,311
Deaths 40,261
Deaths 1M pop Population 593
1 Case every 240 people
1 Death every 1686 people
worldometers.info/coronavir … meAdvegas1 (scroll down to see info)Looks like 1 in 7 that get the virus die from it …
NO…
Please expand on your answer 
ROG:
Franglais:
ROG:
For those that like numbersOFFICIAL Totals for UK to date (REALISTIC NUMBERS ARE HIGHER)
Cases Total 283,311
Deaths 40,261
Deaths 1M pop Population 593
1 Case every 240 people
1 Death every 1686 people
worldometers.info/coronavir … meAdvegas1 (scroll down to see info)Looks like 1 in 7 that get the virus die from it …
NO…
Please expand on your answer
Edited and for a fuller answer look in Billy`s at your post there. 
Seen it in that thread - ta
ROG:
Seen it in that thread - ta
Hopefully as we see a light at the end of the tunnel & along come the protests possibly spreading infection & another spike.
BLM demands: Abolish police, capitalism, close prisons. Are their supporters or those who so call Take the knee to this type of society where likes of Ian Huntley are freed, mad? Starmer is utterly nuts seeing our Criminal Justice system that provided him highly paid employment for years demolished
Can you imagine if they achieved their aim? It would be worse that Gotham City, before the arrival of Batman. I wonder who will eventually emerge as our Batman & rid us of this insanity?
Carl Williams:
ROG:
Seen it in that thread - taHopefully as we see a light at the end of the tunnel & along come the protests possibly spreading infection & another spike.
BLM demands: Abolish police, capitalism, close prisons. Are their supporters or those who so call Take the knee to this type of society where likes of Ian Huntley are freed, mad? Starmer is utterly nuts seeing our Criminal Justice system that provided him highly paid employment for years demolished
Can you imagine if they achieved their aim? It would be worse that Gotham City, before the arrival of Batman. I wonder who will eventually emerge as our Batman & rid us of this insanity?
I really do not believe anybody is actually advocating abolishing the police. This is pure baseless propaganda, mostly from ardent right-wingers. Many people believe that the police could and should do better, in the way range of duties they are expected to perform how they are organised and administered and the way the officers deliver the service. I agree with that wholeheartedly. For info, in case you were wondering, politically I consider myself to be a centrist but support no party.
Sick & tired of all this BLM stuff just wait till we get back to some sort of normality with Covi19 and the Black on Black killing starts again in London when one stabs another and kills them, then we will see in truth if BLM really matters, Buzzer.