gingerfold:
Judging by the increase in cars on the roads in the past few days it would appear that the lock down recommendations are being ignored by many people now. I don’t think that there has been much of an increase in lorry traffic, the M60 is still quiet at the usual pinch points around Trafford Park, Eccles interchange etc. It will be interesting to hear what the PM has to say on Sunday about easing the lock down. I think that whatever is decided he will be damned if he eases, and damned if he doesn’t ease.
IMHO the lockdown would be more acceptable if it was leading somewhere.
The same mismanagement and spin is being applied here as elsewhere. (Remember that plane load of PPE from Turkey? Where is that?) Counting individual gloves as items!
We haven’t yet had 100,000 tests made in a day, but we are now being told 200,000 is a new aim. (If a test was posted it, it was counted as being done!)
And tests ARE important: without them being used alongside track and trace any easing of the lockdown will result in the virus taking off again.
This Gov has members with a history of ignoring facts and relying on spin.
If as much effort was placed into doing the job right, as into spinning and doing PR* work, we would be doing better.
.
.
*Yes, I am being very circumspect in language use here. Just because Johnson has been an incompetent, lying, deceitful, person as a journalist, MP, Mayor, and Minister, doesn’t mean he will be the same as the Prime Minister…
Yeah, right.
.
(I’m quoting gingerfold to say Johnson is bound to be critised because “he’s worth it”.)
^^^^^^
The plane load of PPE from Turkey hasn’t been distributed… it is in a warehouse, apparently it is not fit for purpose because it doesn’t meet NHS specification. You just couldn’t make it up, the saga of PPE sourcing and distribution, incompetence at the highest level. They recruited accountancy firm Deloitte to help source PPE. Personally I wouldn’t ask an accountant to source me a sandwich for my lunch, they wouldn’t know where to get one.
When there was an outbreak of foot & mouth in the farming world there was far better control of that disease than there is of covid19, when you look at it all cattle sheep & pigs are traceable having ear tags one in each ear in the case of cattle and a passport with all the details of movements notified to DEFRA so when and outbreak did happen it was far more in control of the authorities, even today when you go to a livestock market you have to sign in and leave a contact number just in case something should occur, now I am not saying we should all be tagged but I am a believer in ID cards as I do not believe we have any idea how many residents we truly have on our shores and if you got nought to hide whats the problem, Buzzer.
Just reading the 2 posts regarding PPE above and elsewhere on here criticism of not sourcing from the UK. Firstly there are companies in the UK who export PPE because they have contracts with overseas customers . If they break these contracts they would probably be in breach and therefore fined and lose further business. There were companies here falling over theirselves to supply PPE but were getting no response from the Government probably because of all the red tape they would have to go through . Just say the Government agreed to nearly every offer to supply PPE from these companies and put the goods out then found out they weren’t up to scratch can you imagine the uproar. This country and especially Sky News and the BBC are hell bent on crliticising everything that is going on . I keep seeing on the news how different countries have dealt with different situatilons better than we have but they just cherry pick the best of each. One thing i dont understand is that we now include care home deaths on a daily basis whereas a few weeks ago we didn’t. They should have been included from the start or excluded now or two sets of figures with and without should be published so there’s a fair comparison.Why are there no figures for new cases either. An unusually quiet ( i’m not knocking it) EU just lately , funny how one minute they rule most of europe the next not a peep.Will they be as quick to dish the cash out to their member states when its over , i very doubt it a united europe with Germany the first to close their borders
I think Rishi Shinak is doing a very good job and I believe that is he is trying his best. Boris is doing a as good a job as can be expected given that he has been ill and has had to weigh up advice from contradictory pressure group advisors. As for the rest of them they are a complete bunch of oxygen wasters. Hancock is just a mealy- mouthed politician whose lips only move when he is lying except when decides to insult the very people who he is counting on - far too full of his own importance. Keir Starmer I don’t like at all howver he does see to be a breath of fresh air with his focus on holding the government to accout but only when there is a public interest motive.
cav551:
I think Rishi Shinak is doing a very good job and I believe that is he is trying his best. Boris is doing a as good a job as can be expected given that he has been ill and has had to weigh up advice from contradictory pressure group advisors. As for the rest of them they are a complete bunch of oxygen wasters. Hancock is just a mealy- mouthed politician whose lips only move when he is lying except when decides to insult the very people who he is counting on - far too full of his own importance. Keir Starmer I don’t like at all howver he does see to be a breath of fresh air with his focus on holding the government to accout but only when there is a public interest motive.
The thing is Cav this isn’t political and some MPs are trying to score points one only yesterday stating Labour would have locked down earlier. No government is an expert on everything and mistakes will happen but this isn’t a tory virus or a political one so everyone should pull in the same direction. God help us if we ever have world war 3 our biggest enemies will be ourselves.
Franglais:
gingerfold:
Judging by the increase in cars on the roads in the past few days it would appear that the lock down recommendations are being ignored by many people now. I don’t think that there has been much of an increase in lorry traffic, the M60 is still quiet at the usual pinch points around Trafford Park, Eccles interchange etc. It will be interesting to hear what the PM has to say on Sunday about easing the lock down. I think that whatever is decided he will be damned if he eases, and damned if he doesn’t ease.
IMHO the lockdown would be more acceptable if it was leading somewhere.
The same mismanagement and spin is being applied here as elsewhere. (Remember that plane load of PPE from Turkey? Where is that?) Counting individual gloves as items!
We haven’t yet had 100,000 tests made in a day, but we are now being told 200,000 is a new aim. (If a test was posted it, it was counted as being done!)
And tests ARE important: without them being used alongside track and trace any easing of the lockdown will result in the virus taking off again.
This Gov has members with a history of ignoring facts and relying on spin.
If as much effort was placed into doing the job right, as into spinning and doing PR* work, we would be doing better.
.
.
*Yes, I am being very circumspect in language use here. Just because Johnson has been an incompetent, lying, deceitful, person as a journalist, MP, Mayor, and Minister, doesn’t mean he will be the same as the Prime Minister…
Yeah, right.
.
(I’m quoting gingerfold to say Johnson is bound to be critised because “he’s worth it”.)
Scathing Franglais and justified, you vilify those in charge so which MPs or party would have done it better 
Oily
On the lighter side and off Facebook.
Oily
A picture to help the government with the figures…
[emoji2369][emoji2369]
Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
oiltreader:
Franglais:
gingerfold:
Judging by the increase in cars on the roads in the past few days it would appear that the lock down recommendations are being ignored by many people now. I don’t think that there has been much of an increase in lorry traffic, the M60 is still quiet at the usual pinch points around Trafford Park, Eccles interchange etc. It will be interesting to hear what the PM has to say on Sunday about easing the lock down. I think that whatever is decided he will be damned if he eases, and damned if he doesn’t ease.
IMHO the lockdown would be more acceptable if it was leading somewhere.
The same mismanagement and spin is being applied here as elsewhere. (Remember that plane load of PPE from Turkey? Where is that?) Counting individual gloves as items!
We haven’t yet had 100,000 tests made in a day, but we are now being told 200,000 is a new aim. (If a test was posted it, it was counted as being done!)
And tests ARE important: without them being used alongside track and trace any easing of the lockdown will result in the virus taking off again.
This Gov has members with a history of ignoring facts and relying on spin.
If as much effort was placed into doing the job right, as into spinning and doing PR* work, we would be doing better.
.
.
*Yes, I am being very circumspect in language use here. Just because Johnson has been an incompetent, lying, deceitful, person as a journalist, MP, Mayor, and Minister, doesn’t mean he will be the same as the Prime Minister…
Yeah, right.
.
(I’m quoting gingerfold to say Johnson is bound to be critised because “he’s worth it”.)
Scathing Franglais and justified, you vilify those in charge so which MPs or party would have done it better
Oily
Deserves a longer answer than I can give at the moment.
Apart from the obvious one: at the last election… none of 'em.
.
I’ll bore you with a different answer later.
Personally I agree that none of the candidates in the last election were worth voting for. I do not think we are getting talented people to put themselves forward for election as MPs because, amongst other reasons;
(1) We are stuck in a 2 main party system that is difficult, for various reasons, to beat by either smaller parties or independents. And with these 2 parties political choice is really quite narrow.
(2) The actual parliamentary system puts many people off-an oath after election when taking office that is antiquated and expects new MPs to pledge things and in a manner they might not be comfortable with.
(3) The parliamentary procedures, rituals and protocols many of which seem stuck in distant centuries past.
I believe the whole system, including having an elected second house replacing the old boys club that is the Lords (including reserved automatic places for the senior Church of England luminaries) needs revising to encourage those who are not of the Establishment cliques or those who are not prepared to sell their souls to party politics (leaving their morals at the door when they sign up) to throw their hats in to the ring. So many smart people in the UK would never feel comfortable in the present system. Thus they do not get involved.
Those who try to stand as an independent (and I have a friend who did, twice) soon find that the present rules are stacked against them and applied in an unfair manner. That, I regret, is fact.
Change the systems and get new blood in to politics. There are many really good people amongst the British public who would make the present politicians look the fools they are.
Rant over.
The two party system will never change here, because it suits the two parties and the people who own them, same as it does in the USA, ok now and again the libs or greens score a few more MP’s than normal and the weakest Tory govt in history formed a coalition with them to make an even weaker govt, not likely to happen again because the libs reneged on their solemn promises so proving they are just like the others, that’ll be the first and last chance they’ll have of power.
The two parties can’t change, anyone not reading from the hymnsheet of the day of either party won’t be selected to contest a constituency, only those expressing the required views of the moment will get through.
The media is wed to the two party system, and the media is the propaganda wing of both of them no better illustrated than the beeb/grauniad supreme soviet, and the vast majority of the people of the country take their views from mainstream media…ironically the msm has done too good a job of unecessarily frightening the people over the current crisis, so good that its going to take months of back pedalling to undo the terror they have instilled on behalf of their chosen heroes in parliament, the economy unfortunately destroyed in the meantime but no worries the Croydon money trees will presumably provide…and once more come the next election the people will trot out dutifully and vote once again for those same two parties, and once again the people will expect a different result, the definition of lunacy.
We don’t have a presidential system so we can’t elect our own Trump even if there was such a person waiting in the wings, there isn’t, some peope still listen to Farage but he can’t be trusted not to welch on his followers when push comes to shove.
For the first time in all my years i didn’t vote in the last general election, simply because there was no one worth voting for, i’ve now given up on the whole bloody charade and won’t waste any more of my time voting, a wise man told me donkeys years ago that voting was a complete and utter waste of time and effort, if it made any difference it wouldn’t be allowed, he was right and i won’t make that mistake again.
Five minutes of Sky news last night was enough for me when they interviewed an asian man who declared the NHS to have some wonderful people working for them but that there is institutionalised racism in the set up. This was in response to the interviewer asking why he thought there was a larger proportion of black and asian people dieing of Covid 19. Could it not be something to do with their immune system not being able to fight off the virus. Then of course we have a shadow labour mp wanting a full enquiry. Well let him fund it . How can anyone play the race card at a time like this. Are we allowed to mention that there’s a large amount of inter breeding in the asian community or is that too near the truth.
ramone:
Five minutes of Sky news last night was enough for me when they interviewed an asian man who declared the NHS to have some wonderful people working for them but that there is institutionalised racism in the set up. This was in response to the interviewer asking why he thought there was a larger proportion of black and asian people dieing of Covid 19. Could it not be something to do with their immune system not being able to fight off the virus. Then of course we have a shadow labour mp wanting a full enquiry. Well let him fund it . How can anyone play the race card at a time like this. Are we allowed to mention that there’s a large amount of inter breeding in the asian community or is that too near the truth.
Plus a lot of them live in huge family communes with several generations in the same property, just saying.
ramone:
Five minutes of Sky news last night was enough for me when they interviewed an asian man who declared the NHS to have some wonderful people working for them but that there is institutionalised racism in the set up. This was in response to the interviewer asking why he thought there was a larger proportion of black and asian people dieing of Covid 19. Could it not be something to do with their immune system not being able to fight off the virus. Then of course we have a shadow labour mp wanting a full enquiry. Well let him fund it . How can anyone play the race card at a time like this. Are we allowed to mention that there’s a large amount of inter breeding in the asian community or is that too near the truth.
I think it sad, but understandable, that the race card gets used. I am sure people do suffer abuse and mistreatment due to their race.
But when it comes to a virus I think they are on sticky ground. I imagine the problem they have encountered with this virus is down to genetics, just as my “affliction” of Type 1 skin causing, freckles and ginger hair (all leading to the skin cancer I am suffering now), is my genetic heritage.
If their racial type has caused their immune system to be less effective against this virus then let’s investigate. We may learn how to improve it and, consequently, be able to improve the effectiveness of the immune systems of all humans.
But I imagine when you have suffered a lot of racial abuse your view of life may get a wee bit distorted leading to silly pronouncements.
gingerfold:
^^^^^^
The plane load of PPE from Turkey hasn’t been distributed… it is in a warehouse, apparently it is not fit for purpose because it doesn’t meet NHS specification. You just couldn’t make it up, the saga of PPE sourcing and distribution, incompetence at the highest level. They recruited accountancy firm Deloitte to help source PPE. Personally I wouldn’t ask an accountant to source me a sandwich for my lunch, they wouldn’t know where to get one.
Excellent surmise of the position.
I am in two minds about Boris however, on the one hand he does seem to have sleepwalked into impending disaster as the virus started in China, when all efforts hould have been for immediate action to acquire the necessary. Action should ahve been taken then to secure foreign supplies and to issue specifications to domestic factories. I’m convinced that the lobbying from the financial sector and industry swayed is mind in the wrong direction. On the other hand he has been woefully betrayed by a complete bunch of incompetents once his hands were not on the tiller. It’s not just handing over acquisition to accountants it is the waste of manpower getting squaddies involved in hand to hand distribution of supplies when we have a Royal Mail, numerous parcels carriers and pallet distribution companies all capable of delivering to every address in the country the next day … because they do it day in, day out.
Now all we hear is the scripted official message with diehard party supporters criticising the press for demanding answers to awkward quesstions. The reason for these questions is that we are not getting straight answers to the worries the public has. There is no sign of any attempt to admit that some decisions were wrong, the mere admission of that would alter the perception of this governments overall performance and the attitude of detractors.
I am no admirer of Winston Churchill, the opposite in fact, however when it mattered he had the knack of getting his audience on side. Boris is definitely no Churchill but he does have some hint of that ability. An admission from him that mistakes have been made, an apology and assurance that there will be no more spin could make a lot of difference.
So on this VE day Churchills speech to parliamant at the time of Dunkirk:
youtube.com/watch?v=skrdyoabmgA
cav551:
gingerfold:
^^^^^^
The plane load of PPE from Turkey hasn’t been distributed… it is in a warehouse, apparently it is not fit for purpose because it doesn’t meet NHS specification. You just couldn’t make it up, the saga of PPE sourcing and distribution, incompetence at the highest level. They recruited accountancy firm Deloitte to help source PPE. Personally I wouldn’t ask an accountant to source me a sandwich for my lunch, they wouldn’t know where to get one.
Excellent surmise of the position.
I am in two minds about Boris however, on the one hand he does seem to have sleepwalked into impending disaster as the virus started in China, when all efforts hould have been for immediate action to acquire the necessary. Action should ahve been taken then to secure foreign supplies and to issue specifications to domestic factories. I’m convinced that the lobbying from the financial sector and industry swayed is mind in the wrong direction. On the other hand he has been woefully betrayed by a complete bunch of incompetents once his hands were not on the tiller. It’s not just handing over acquisition to accountants it is the waste of manpower getting squaddies involved in hand to hand distribution of supplies when we have a Royal Mail, numerous parcels carriers and pallet distribution companies all capable of delivering to every address in the country the next day … because they do it day in, day out.
Now all we hear is the scripted official message with diehard party supporters criticising the press for demanding answers to awkward quesstions. The reason for these questions is that we are not getting straight answers to the worries the public has. There is no sign of any attempt to admit that some decisions were wrong, the mere admission of that would alter the perception of this governments overall performance and the attitude of detractors.
I am no admirer of Winston Churchill, the opposite in fact, however when it mattered he had the knack of getting his audience on side. Boris is definitely no Churchill but he does have some hint of that ability. An admission from him that mistakes have been made, an apology and assurance that there will be no more spin could make a lot of difference.
So on this VE day Churchills speech to parliamant at the time of Dunkirk:
youtube.com/watch?v=skrdyoabmgA
Awkward questions fair enough , but how many of these media reporters were asking why we weren’t on lockdown at the start of January. Probably because they dusn’t realise the scale of the virus or the devastation it would cause. But they are asking the very same question now. It should be a joint effort from all sides of the house to try and resolve thus catastrophe. . The PPE shortage will probably have more to do with not complying with some BS Standard ruling which will more than likely stop the very same PPE being used even though there’s probably nothing wrong with it .Again only part of the awkward question being asked
oiltreader:
Franglais:
gingerfold:
Judging by the increase in cars on the roads in the past few days it would appear that the lock down recommendations are being ignored by many people now. I don’t think that there has been much of an increase in lorry traffic, the M60 is still quiet at the usual pinch points around Trafford Park, Eccles interchange etc. It will be interesting to hear what the PM has to say on Sunday about easing the lock down. I think that whatever is decided he will be damned if he eases, and damned if he doesn’t ease.
IMHO the lockdown would be more acceptable if it was leading somewhere.
The same mismanagement and spin is being applied here as elsewhere. (Remember that plane load of PPE from Turkey? Where is that?) Counting individual gloves as items!
We haven’t yet had 100,000 tests made in a day, but we are now being told 200,000 is a new aim. (If a test was posted it, it was counted as being done!)
And tests ARE important: without them being used alongside track and trace any easing of the lockdown will result in the virus taking off again.
This Gov has members with a history of ignoring facts and relying on spin.
If as much effort was placed into doing the job right, as into spinning and doing PR* work, we would be doing better.
.
.
*Yes, I am being very circumspect in language use here. Just because Johnson has been an incompetent, lying, deceitful, person as a journalist, MP, Mayor, and Minister, doesn’t mean he will be the same as the Prime Minister…
Yeah, right.
.
(I’m quoting gingerfold to say Johnson is bound to be critised because “he’s worth it”.)
Scathing Franglais and justified, you vilify those in charge so which MPs or party would have done it better
Oily
As promised…threatened? A longer post.
viewtopic.php?f=15&t=165142
I`ve put it on a new thread so this one can remain more COVID themed and no go off on an overtly political way.
Franglais:
oiltreader:
Franglais:
gingerfold:
Judging by the increase in cars on the roads in the past few days it would appear that the lock down recommendations are being ignored by many people now. I don’t think that there has been much of an increase in lorry traffic, the M60 is still quiet at the usual pinch points around Trafford Park, Eccles interchange etc. It will be interesting to hear what the PM has to say on Sunday about easing the lock down. I think that whatever is decided he will be damned if he eases, and damned if he doesn’t ease.
IMHO the lockdown would be more acceptable if it was leading somewhere.
The same mismanagement and spin is being applied here as elsewhere. (Remember that plane load of PPE from Turkey? Where is that?) Counting individual gloves as items!
We haven’t yet had 100,000 tests made in a day, but we are now being told 200,000 is a new aim. (If a test was posted it, it was counted as being done!)
And tests ARE important: without them being used alongside track and trace any easing of the lockdown will result in the virus taking off again.
This Gov has members with a history of ignoring facts and relying on spin.
If as much effort was placed into doing the job right, as into spinning and doing PR* work, we would be doing better.
.
.
*Yes, I am being very circumspect in language use here. Just because Johnson has been an incompetent, lying, deceitful, person as a journalist, MP, Mayor, and Minister, doesn’t mean he will be the same as the Prime Minister…
Yeah, right.
.
(I’m quoting gingerfold to say Johnson is bound to be critised because “he’s worth it”.)
Scathing Franglais and justified, you vilify those in charge so which MPs or party would have done it better
Oily
As promised…threatened? A longer post.
viewtopic.php?f=15&t=165142
I`ve put it on a new thread so this one can remain more COVID themed and no go off on an overtly political way.
You posted in Bully’s Bar…OIltreader asked me a question in the Oldies COVID thread why didn’t you cut and and paste my precise question to you instead of using my post as an excuse for a rant about Boris Johnson, yes it is political and as such it belongs in Bully’s Bar, a place I don’t frequent but glad I did on this occasion.
Oily
