This is my 1st post but I’ve been lurking for a few years now.
I’m somewhat confused and have had different views from who ever i speak to, but basically as a sideline ive been doing a bit of driving, collecting and delivering cars/vans for dealers etc, i use my L200 Barbarian and a Ifor Williams CT177 trailer. My main job is a Bodyshop/Garage owner.
Now do i need to use a tacho and do i need an O License, its seems a nightmare to find out, some people say yes, some people say no. Vosa say yes as its done for reward, but then contradict there self, by saying you don’t if your tractor unit is duel use vehicle which mine is. I am doing this for reward and i am often past the 50mile threshold of my workshop.
I’m not trying to shirk my responsibilities as im fully prepared to do whats necessary, i just don’t want to go to all that hassle if unnecessary.
My understanding is that as the MGW of your L200 and trailer combination is over 3500kg then you need to fit a tacho and use it.
As far as the O-Licence is concerned, it used to be the case that trailers under 1020kg unladen weight didn’t count for O-Licence purposes and therefore you didn’t need one for your application, however I’m sure I read somewhere that this exemption has either been got rid of or is about to be got rid of, in which case you would sadly fall in scope for licencing.
Hopefully someone can confirm one way or another on that point.
Is it double cab with rear seats and glass ■■ AFAIK a lot depends on this fact as to whether it nips under the radar as being a dual purpose vehicle as opposed to a commercial one
repton:
My understanding is that as the MGW of your L200 and trailer combination is over 3500kg then you need to fit a tacho and use it.
As far as the O-Licence is concerned, it used to be the case that trailers under 1020kg unladen weight didn’t count for O-Licence purposes and therefore you didn’t need one for your application, however I’m sure I read somewhere that this exemption has either been got rid of or is about to be got rid of, in which case you would sadly fall in scope for licencing.
Hopefully someone can confirm one way or another on that point.
repton:
As far as the O-Licence is concerned, it used to be the case that trailers under 1020kg unladen weight didn’t count for O-Licence purposes
I think the weight exeption means that the trailer its self doesnt have to be on an O-licence, i belive you would still need an o-licence to run the vehicle its self
As far as I understand you’ll still need to use a tachograph though.
Correct Muckles. We have 2 four wheel drives fitted with tachos Oh and if you have one of analogue vintage you’ll need a coach tacho in it of you want to be able to hoof it, on the way home, without constantly breaking them
repton:
My understanding is that as the MGW of your L200 and trailer combination is over 3500kg then you need to fit a tacho and use it.
As far as the O-Licence is concerned, it used to be the case that trailers under 1020kg unladen weight didn’t count for O-Licence purposes and therefore you didn’t need one for your application, however I’m sure I read somewhere that this exemption has either been got rid of or is about to be got rid of, in which case you would sadly fall in scope for licencing.
Hopefully someone can confirm one way or another on that point.
Paul
They’ve changed it slightly, you now need and a Standard or International O’licence if operating any combinations over 3500kg for hire and reward work, but don’t need it for a trailer under 1020kg if it’s own account work.
But don’t need an O’licence at all if you operating a dual purpose vehicle.
As far as I understand you’ll still need to use a tachograph though.
Correct Muckles. We have 2 four wheel drives fitted with tachos Oh and if you have one of analogue vintage you’ll need a coach tacho in it of you want to be able to hoof it, on the way home, without constantly breaking them
Been going though all this at work as we want to use a small car transporter trailer. Finally got the boss to settle on getting a new van instead of a 4x4, old sprinter only has a 5.5t mtw. We have capacity on our O’licence so that’s not a problem. Waiting for an answer off VOSA about inspections for the van and trailer, don’t really want to send them to the same place as our trucks when we have the people and facilities at our workshop to look after a van and trailer.
How do you deal with tacho records when not pulling a trailer?
muckles:
How do you deal with tacho records when not pulling a trailer?
Tough one isn’t it ■■ Technically some of it should/could be other work and not scalping away at your weekly hours.
The easiest way for us is just treat them like the wagons and lump it all in together. If I’m using one it’s usually on a job that will start or finish with a large trailer/load on, putting it in the realms of eu hours. So it’s all done pukka and cards in/ records kept. The records are also used as WTD too, so it also simplifies things a great deal. It’s guaranteed that I will have/be driving my usual artic within a few days either way of the little one so again it’s just easier to do it cards in, rather than any combination of logs/sheets etc.
Obviously we keep to all drivers hours for the whole journey even if coming back “solo” and overnight in hotels with them both here and all over Europe. If the trailers off though normal hoof down speed limits apply I usually have a few pics on my phone though to show to the authorities when they want to know what “Truck” I was doing [insert very inappropriate speed] in, a few days/weeks previous. The French and Spanish seem to take the “but that’s a car so why bother with a tacho” type approach but the Germans are getting hot on it. We had one stopped by the BAG near Kiel a couple of months back. They were very disappointed that all was in order
Breaks VOSAs heart too when they drag them over the weighbridge and just after they start “the speech” you pop the centre console open to reveal a tachograph
If we get pulled, then the Vosa place will be packed with little ones. Usually we’re amongst the only ones to leave unmolested, they are getting hot on this.
muckles:
How do you deal with tacho records when not pulling a trailer?
Tough one isn’t it ■■ Technically some of it should/could be other work and not scalping away at your weekly hours.
The easiest way for us is just treat them like the wagons and lump it all in together. If I’m using one it’s usually on a job that will start or finish with a large trailer/load on, putting it in the realms of eu hours. So it’s all done pukka and cards in/ records kept. The records are also used as WTD too, so it also simplifies things a great deal. It’s guaranteed that I will have/be driving my usual artic within a few days either way of the little one so again it’s just easier to do it cards in, rather than any combination of logs/sheets etc.
Obviously we keep to all drivers hours for the whole journey even if coming back “solo” and overnight in hotels with them both here and all over Europe. If the trailers off though normal hoof down speed limits apply I usually have a few pics on my phone though to show to the authorities when they want to know what “Truck” I was doing [insert very inappropriate speed] in, a few days/weeks previous. The French and Spanish seem to take the “but that’s a car so why bother with a tacho” type approach but the Germans are getting hot on it. We had one stopped by the BAG near Kiel a couple of months back. They were very disappointed that all was in order
Breaks VOSAs heart too when they drag them over the weighbridge and just after they start “the speech” you pop the centre console open to reveal a tachograph
If we get pulled, then the Vosa place will be packed with little ones. Usually we’re amongst the only ones to leave unmolested, they are getting hot on this.
My problem is that I work for a motor racing team and it’s hard enough to get the mechanics who can drive the truck to use the tachograph properly. I think we only have one other person besides those who have an HGV licence who’ll be able to drive the van and trailer, but plenty who can drive the van on it’s own, so the records are going to be a bit messy.
muckles:
How do you deal with tacho records when not pulling a trailer?
Tough one isn’t it ■■ Technically some of it should/could be other work and not scalping away at your weekly hours.
The easiest way for us is just treat them like the wagons and lump it all in together. If I’m using one it’s usually on a job that will start or finish with a large trailer/load on, putting it in the realms of eu hours. So it’s all done pukka and cards in/ records kept. The records are also used as WTD too, so it also simplifies things a great deal. It’s guaranteed that I will have/be driving my usual artic within a few days either way of the little one so again it’s just easier to do it cards in, rather than any combination of logs/sheets etc.
Obviously we keep to all drivers hours for the whole journey even if coming back “solo” and overnight in hotels with them both here and all over Europe. If the trailers off though normal hoof down speed limits apply I usually have a few pics on my phone though to show to the authorities when they want to know what “Truck” I was doing [insert very inappropriate speed] in, a few days/weeks previous. The French and Spanish seem to take the “but that’s a car so why bother with a tacho” type approach but the Germans are getting hot on it. We had one stopped by the BAG near Kiel a couple of months back. They were very disappointed that all was in order
Breaks VOSAs heart too when they drag them over the weighbridge and just after they start “the speech” you pop the centre console open to reveal a tachograph
If we get pulled, then the Vosa place will be packed with little ones. Usually we’re amongst the only ones to leave unmolested, they are getting hot on this.
My problem is that I work for a motor racing team and it’s hard enough to get the mechanics who can drive the truck to use the tachograph properly. I think we only have one other person besides those who have an HGV licence who’ll be able to drive the van and trailer, but plenty who can drive the van on it’s own, so the records are going to be a bit messy.
Van on it’s own would/could be covered by time sheets ■■? It’s only other work really and part of there job/day
I thought race teams and the like were exempted or has that changed
muckles:
But don’t need an O’licence at all if you operating a dual purpose vehicle.
The definition of “dual purpose vehicle” isn’t completely straightforward either, in the linked document it says:
The dual purpose category generally includes cars, estates, pickups (with a second row of seats (crew cab) only), and domestic 4x4 vehicles such as Land Rovers, Jeeps, and other
similar vehicles below 2040kgs unladen weight.
Well I have a Land Rover, but it is over 2040kg unladen. So does it count or not?
muckles:
But don’t need an O’licence at all if you operating a dual purpose vehicle.
The definition of “dual purpose vehicle” isn’t completely straightforward either, in the linked document it says:
The dual purpose category generally includes cars, estates, pickups (with a second row of seats (crew cab) only), and domestic 4x4 vehicles such as Land Rovers, Jeeps, and other
similar vehicles below 2040kgs unladen weight.
Well I have a Land Rover, but it is over 2040kg unladen. So does it count or not?
Paul
No, it’s to heavy, but if you strip any non standard kit out of it and get it weighed
billybigrig:
Van on it’s own would/could be covered by time sheets ■■? It’s only other work really and part of there job/day
I thought race teams and the like were exempted or has that changed
We don’t have time sheets, and people basically jump into the van to go and get bits and pieces. They are supposed to fill in a mileage log for the taxman, but they aren’t very good at that either.
As far as I know race teams haven’t ever been exempted from O’licences or tacho regs.
Although I know some who think having “Not for Hire or Reward” on their truck means they are exempted. VOSA soon enlighten them when decide to wait outside a circuit and pull the trucks in.
billybigrig:
Van on it’s own would/could be covered by time sheets ■■? It’s only other work really and part of there job/day
I thought race teams and the like were exempted or has that changed
We don’t have time sheets, and people basically jump into the van to go and get bits and pieces. They are supposed to fill in a mileage log for the taxman, but they aren’t very good at that either.
As far as I know race teams haven’t ever been exempted from O’licences or tacho regs.
Although I know some who think having “Not for Hire or Reward” on their truck means they are exempted. VOSA soon enlighten them when decide to wait outside a circuit and pull the trucks in.
Used to be that stuff permanently fitted with exhibition equipment, libraries, workshops etc that were not primarily used for hire and reward transportation of goods were exempt, as far as I remember
Remember, as far as the van goes, that the person responsible for it’s operation needs to keep a record of use for the inevitable camera flashes. Lest he get the points himself
Thanks for all the replies so far chaps. So it looks like i need a tacho but not an O license as it a duel purpose use vehicle.
On a question of Tachos then, [ive never used one] when im not using the truck for work, which is around 70% of the time, do i still have to use the tacho, or can you just turn it off and do what you like and what speed you want etc. Or does it not work like that?
Oh and if you have one of analogue vintage you’ll need a coach tacho in it of you want to be able to hoof it, on the way home, without constantly breaking them 
