Company sold up

Evening all.

I’m after a bit of advice from anyone with a bit of experience with regard a situation I’ve found myself in.

Basically I’ve ended up working for another company as the company I worked for sold up with all its drivers moving to new company. We were given virtually no notice, it was literally a case of next week your working for them on exactly the same terms and the only difference will be that your pulling out of their yard which increased my commute from 5 miles to 22 miles (one way)

At my old firm we were paid by the hour, we had the opportunity of regular overtime paid at time and half of which we’d average about 15 hours a week. I did 1 or 2 nights out for them a week paid at £35 per night out so for me I was quite happy as I no longer had to tramp 4 nights a week, it was local and money was there.

Things aren’t quite the same at new employer. Their lads are on a basic salary which covers 11 hours a day including 1 hour break. The rest of the weekly wage is made up based on how many jobs you do per day, how much product you deliver and few other things like bringing product back to the depot for their tanks. All of which you have pretty much no control over and its passed on by planners. The salary is 28k from what ive been told with £2.80 being given for any job you do. My hourly rate is 12ph and 18ph overtime.

When we met the MD of our new employer we were told that it’d be beneficial to us to be on their terms and we’ll be put on their terms as soon as its possible to do so but that might be a few months away. All drivers were scratching our head as to how we’d be financially better off on those terms.

However, im no longer scratching my head because I’m doing a basic 8 hour day for my new employer which is earning me zero in overtime and I’m doing a 40 mile round trip to work each day for the privilege too. Their terms will see me better off based on that.

I’ve only done a week so I’m trying not to kneejerk but for me all the signs are that I’m going to struggle getting overtime here and asa result see my wages drop significantly, especially with the commute.

The system is also extremely unfair in many ways. A driver for example who has a set run in one of the major cities nearby has less mileage to do to get to his drops and also has more drops in close proximity so can do a lot more jobs than a driver who’s doing more rural work that could be 30 or 40 miles from the depot. There are also bonuses given for delivering a certain product but whether you get that product isn’t in your control. A driver I was with today for example has had no opportunity to earn more via this.

I’m feeling extremely deflated with this new set up and my thoughts are that I’m ■■■■■■■ in the wind here. Its a big outfit and on the face of it, in theory, it could be a step up but I’m just not getting the feeling it will be for me. Now, do I go with my gut and look to jump ship ASAP without wasting time or do I let it settle, accept im likely to earn less money for a period in the hope it gets better.

Obviously there’s covid to contend with too.

My feeling is that this just isn’t going to be for me, not just from a wages point of view but from a work place culture point of view either.

Go and see your new MD with all your facts and figures. Show him how your costs have increased and your wages have dropped. Tell him that you can’t survive if things don’t change. Communication is the best way forward. If nothing changes, then look for a new job.

ChrisArbon:
Go and see your new MD with all your facts and figures. Show him how your costs have increased and your wages have dropped. Tell him that you can’t survive if things don’t change. Communication is the best way forward. If nothing changes, then look for a new job.

Thats a very logical, even rational way of doing it.

I have asked my new transport manager straight what can I expect to earn as I’m concerned ill be on a lot less than I’ve been on. He said that no driver earns less than 35k a year here and they’re home every night. Yet the 2 drivers I’ve been with said that some drivers do earn that and more but they themselves do around 32k a year which is highly likely to be what I’d be on.

It all depends on whether you’d get a favourable, regular route as that generally determines how many jobs you’re likely to get.

Also there’s a list for overtime at the weekends which can see you get every 3rd Saturday which would boost your wage. But that list is currently for every 6th or 7th weekend at the minute due to many drivers wanting the overtime at the weekend due to the lack of availability mon-fri.

I’m wondering how ■■■■■■ off I might be by the time I get an opportunity to raise my concerns with the MD.

RACHACE:

ChrisArbon:
Go and see your new MD with all your facts and figures. Show him how your costs have increased and your wages have dropped. Tell him that you can’t survive if things don’t change. Communication is the best way forward. If nothing changes, then look for a new job.

Thats a very logical, even rational way of doing it.

I have asked my new transport manager straight what can I expect to earn as I’m concerned ill be on a lot less than I’ve been on. He said that no driver earns less than 35k a year here and they’re home every night. Yet the 2 drivers I’ve been with said that some drivers do earn that and more but they themselves do around 32k a year which is highly likely to be what I’d be on.

It all depends on whether you’d get a favourable, regular route as that generally determines how many jobs you’re likely to get.

Also there’s a list for overtime at the weekends which can see you get every 3rd Saturday which would boost your wage. But that list is currently for every 6th or 7th weekend at the minute due to many drivers wanting the overtime at the weekend due to the lack of availability mon-fri.

I’m wondering how ■■■■■■ off I might be by the time I get an opportunity to raise my concerns with the MD.

I assume you were tuped over? Do they not have to keep them same terms and conditions for 12 months! … end of the day, if your living outside of London I can’t see how you cannot live on a wage of 30k a year considering the national average is apparently 21k or whatever it is in the uk.

If you don’t like it leave, but if it is a bigger outfit, maybe that’s what they want if your current T&C are better., who lives for overtime is beyond me. Buy an old 1 litre car for to from work … the MD won’t care about you he only cares about profit, and your just a driver, who in this climate he can replace.

Maybe you will end up worse off here, than previously. Even so, are there many openings around your area that are better for you?
Consider leaving if things are worse of course, but only if you are sure you’ll do better. Not a good employment climate at the moment.

Franglais:
Maybe you will end up worse off here, than previously. … Not a good employment climate at the moment.

You must have been TUPEd, so the previous comment about terms should apply.

One potentially big thing to consider is that you have also maintained your employment “seniority” or history. So, you are not on a 6-month probationary, for example…

Your old job no longer exists. You now have a new job which is completely different. Trying to work your new job like your old job is a waste of time and will only leave you frustrated and angry. Stop fighting it and either accept your new job for what it is, or leave and go somewhere that fits your requirements. At £12 per hour and £18 overtime you have it better than most drivers and they won’t have any problems filling your vacancy when you leave.

Mick Bracewell:
Your old job no longer exists. You now have a new job which is completely different. Trying to work your new job like your old job is a waste of time and will only leave you frustrated and angry. Stop fighting it and either accept your new job for what it is, or leave and go somewhere that fits your requirements. At £12 per hour and £18 overtime you have it better than most drivers and they won’t have any problems filling your vacancy when you leave.

Thanks for the reply. I’m not sure if I made it clear in my original post but the new company want us on the salary that their own drivers are on. We will not in the long term be staying on our 12/18ph. In the short to medium term our hours have been slashed to a basic 8 hour day meaning no or very little overtime is being done so that we cannot earn more than their own drivers.

I’ll put a little bit more meat in the bones with regard my position too in an attempt to get a bit more advice.

I’m 38, married, no kids and in a stable financial position. I’ve got 14 years hgv experience with 8 of these on class 1. I’ve done the whole 60+ hours with 4/5 nights out and weekend work as and when you want it. So I’m not worried or phased about long hours or working away. Got ADR tanks and I’ve been doing tanker work for a year using both class 1 and class 2 vehicles. I haven’t got a PDP however.

In the current climate what are peoples thoughts on my position with regards getting work? Based in Greater Manchester.

I just cannot do a 200 mile a week commute for £480 a week gross

landy12345:

Franglais:
Maybe you will end up worse off here, than previously. … Not a good employment climate at the moment.

You must have been TUPEd, so the previous comment about terms should apply.

One potentially big thing to consider is that you have also maintained your employment “seniority” or history. So, you are not on a 6-month probationary, for example…

Fair comment that he is on same terms, for the present anyway, but if he is now getting less hours the end result is different.

RACHACE:
I’ll put a little bit more meat in the bones with regard my position too in an attempt to get a bit more advice.

I’m 38, married, no kids and in a stable financial position. I’ve got 14 years hgv experience with 8 of these on class 1. I’ve done the whole 60+ hours with 4/5 nights out and weekend work as and when you want it. So I’m not worried or phased about long hours or working away. Got ADR tanks and I’ve been doing tanker work for a year using both class 1 and class 2 vehicles. I haven’t got a PDP however.

In the current climate what are peoples thoughts on my position with regards getting work? Based in Greater Manchester.

I just cannot do a 200 mile a week commute for £480 a week gross

What “more” advice do you want? Your old job no longer exists. Your new job isn’t suitable for a variety of reasons. Get on the job sites like indeed.com and find something else.

As said by an earlier poster. There are regulations that have to be followed T.U.P.E. Try talking to management also Citizens Advice. Workers still have some rights in this Country, our ForeFathers thought they were worth fighting for.

Thing is I’m not sure he’ll have much of a case. End of the day he has been TUPEd over, he’s on the same pay rates as before presumably with the same base contracted hours. He just isn’t getting the overtime, which isn’t contracted. Yeah he’s lost out but they’re still honouring the contract.

RACHACE:
I’ll put a little bit more meat in the bones with regard my position too in an attempt to get a bit more advice.

I’m 38, married, no kids and in a stable financial position. I’ve got 14 years hgv experience with 8 of these on class 1. I’ve done the whole 60+ hours with 4/5 nights out and weekend work as and when you want it. So I’m not worried or phased about long hours or working away. Got ADR tanks and I’ve been doing tanker work for a year using both class 1 and class 2 vehicles. I haven’t got a PDP however.

In the current climate what are peoples thoughts on my position with regards getting work? Based in Greater Manchester.

I just cannot do a 200 mile a week commute for £480 a week gross

Become a shopping trolley pilot., Or go door knocking at other companies.

Some light reading for you:

https://archive.acas.org.uk/tupe

toonsy:
Thing is I’m not sure he’ll have much of a case. End of the day he has been TUPEd over, he’s on the same pay rates as before presumably with the same base contracted hours. He just isn’t getting the overtime, which isn’t contracted. Yeah he’s lost out but they’re still honouring the contract.

Thats correct.

My lads TUPEd over, they got the same per hour pay, but the work dropped off as the new people gave more work to their lower paid existing drivers. In a TUPE situation, there isnt an obligation to provide an equivalent amount of hours unless they are specifically guaranteed in a contract.

The commute is moot.
Anything can happen regarding relocation and it only becomes a redundancy situation beyond a certain distance ( surprisingly a lot ).So forget that.
Commuting time and quality often also has no relation to actual distance.At least in the London area.A commute outwards much further into Surrey is way preferable to a closer one across the suburbs or into London.

Piece work is more of an issue and can be stamped on on grounds of road safety in creating an incentive to drive like a nutter.

Distance and fewer drops is worth a considerable wage drop v local close together multi drop.

Less overtime look on the bright side more time at home.

It’s not always about the bottom line.

These aren’t goo times to want to cut off your nose to spite your face.Work on the job’s good points tell em you’re up for the piecework and will keep quiet about it but the local multi drop is a deal breaker.Distance fewer drops only.
My guess is that’s why they pay better money for multi drop because you’d earn it and then some.

44 mile round trip commute instead of 10 that’s not a big deal.

TUPE regs aren’t open ended anyway so not much point in arguing about it.

Mick Bracewell:
Your old job no longer exists. You now have a new job which is completely different. Trying to work your new job like your old job is a waste of time and will only leave you frustrated and angry. Stop fighting it and either accept your new job for what it is, or leave and go somewhere that fits your requirements. At £12 per hour and £18 overtime you have it better than most drivers and they won’t have any problems filling your vacancy when you leave.

If you really really want to leave the job it’s a fine line between TUPE and redundancy.Your first two sentences say it all in that regard.

Ironically I’d fight it on grounds of the latter ‘if’ the local multi drop zb work was ■■■■■■■■■■ not choice.The OP should be careful what he wishes for in that regard.
A multi drop job based on piecework is self employed local van delivery territory and makes a joke of the minimum wage.Nothing to lose in that case in fighting out a redundancy claim.

Mick Bracewell:
Get on the job sites like indeed.com and find something else.

:open_mouth:
Good luck with that. :laughing:

Just put in Multi Drop and overtime and watch the opportunities unfold. :smiling_imp: :wink:

steelgoon:
Some light reading for you:

https://archive.acas.org.uk/tupe

^
‘Advice’ doesn’t get any better than that.But don’t think even then that longer commute and overtime will help.
More work expected for same or less pay might.The wording of ‘indefinite’ :smiley: protection is your friend in that case.
Do not accept their piecework terms unless you can guarantee that they would be beneficial.
Maintain your previous hourly rate and no more mileage and/or drops expected per hour.