Company points scheme

The company i have recently been driving for have all tachograph charts analysed.

Any infringements generates a letter to the driver requiring a signature that he/she has received the notice.

Some things are classed as minor, others as more serious, such as speeding over 60mph and not having sufficient rest.
These attract company points, 12 in 6 months & you’re out.

On the 9.9.06 I left Lymm, went to Ipswich, onto West Thurrock & back to Lymm. 811 kms.
I knew it would be tight on 10 hours driving to get back into Lymm. I thought if i was just off I could park in Knutsford services, forgetting (as a part time driver) that is now closed to LGV’s.
Time was indeed extremely tight but i pushed on back into Poplar 2000.
My electronic timer (which is only as accurate as my operation of it. i.e remembering to start & stop it) clocked 10 hrs + 5 minutes.

I wrote a note on the back of the card: “few minutes over 10 hours to get into safe parking, previous services closed to trucks”

The analysis of the chart shows the driving time as 9 hrs 57 mins. But i have received a notice of infringement + 3 penalty points because i claimed the exception.

My thinking is that as no infringement was commited, the note does not come into play.
Surely a VOSA officer, seeing the card as legal, would not even look at the back of the card?

I am far from happy with this. I’ve never had penalty points for anything before.

Anybody know how i stand legally on this?

seems a bit harsh from the company (or their analysis people). You genuinely didn’t know that Knutsford MSA was closed to HGV’s. You thought that you had unavoidably gone over your time to reach the next available safe parking (Article 12 of 3820/85 allows for this) and noted your thoughts on the reverse of the chart. Don’t think the ‘Man from VOSA’ would be very worried about this, think your chart analysis folk need to get a life. If you are worried about the ‘company points’ ask to discuss with your Transport Manager and explain what happened and that you were acting in your and the company’s best interests. You could always point out the provision of Article 15.1 that the Company have to organise your work so that it was ‘do able’ in the time permitted and maybe they shouldn’t have asked you to do that run in the first place.
In the meantime chill, it wasn’t VOSA looking at your charts, I’ve had more than one discussion with analysis people that didn’t know what they were on about, who says their reading of your driving time was correct anyway■■? :smiley:

Driveroneuk:
Anybody know how i stand legally on this?

The legal stand point is irrelevant. This company points system you refer to is something that they’ve decided to implement themselves. There’s no legal requirement for it so you’ve got 3 options :

  1. Ignore your 3 points and carry on as normal.
  2. Approach your gaffer and tell them to get it sorted as you were within your 10hr drive (liable to result in an argument and nothing actually happening about removing your 3 points).
  3. Tell them to shove their in house points system up their arse and get a proper job.

Knutsford is not ‘closed’ to HGV’s. I call in there there quite regularly and, certainly N/B there are still about 12 or so bays. Not sure about ‘overnighting’ though. I think that since Moto acquired Poplar 2000, they would rather push the trucks up the road to Poplar in order that the paying guests in the Travel Lodge don’t come down in the morning complaining that they’ve had their sleep distrurbed. :slight_smile:

As regards the tacho analysis, most of this is done automatically by computer and the software simply churns out the results. Where this falls down is in the manner in which ‘driving’ is recorded. Stopping at, junctions, traffic lights, pedestrian crossings, etc, whilst still ‘legally’ classed a driving, will not show as ‘driving’ on an automated analysis. Which would explain the dicrepancy in times.

I’ve recently mentioned elsewhere that, stuck in a traffic jam, I exceeded 4 1/2 hours to reach somewhere to stop and recorded the fact on the back of the chart. Similarly, when the analysis came back, the ‘infringement’ was for an ‘incorrect’ manual entry. :smiley:

It was interesting to read about the new digital tachos recording 2 minutes driving when a vehicle is only moved a short distance. I was talking to someone recently who had fallen foul of this feature when, having returned to the yard several minutes within 4 1/2 driving, he then did the usual things. Call in to the office, move out of someone’s way, filled the tank up, filled the other tank up, and then moved it again to park up, etc, etc, etc, only to later find that all these minor vehicle movements had amounted to an additional 20+ minutes driving. However, I’m sure that if the total distance travelled in that (recorded) period were examined, then it would be so little that one could have walked further.

When companies set up these systems, and many of them have some merit, what they fail to appreciate is that ‘technology is blind’. It only fulfills the function that it has been instructed to do. If a company is intending to use analysis in relation to disciplining employees (or even rewarding them) then they need to ‘work with’ their analysis provider to ensure that software churning out infringements really are ‘infringements’ and there may be times when a manual analysis might be required, and when they find out how much that costs each time… :laughing:

I would suggest that the most appropriate manner in which to pursue this would be to implement the Grievance Procedure. They might then realize that the may have to re-think the policy.

Just imagine the following scenario at an Employment Tribunal where someone from the company providing the analysis has been called.:-

Q. Did you analyse this chart which you say indicates infringements?

A. Yes.

Q. How did you carry out that analysis?

A. I placed it in an (Acme Turborotator) and it provided me with a printed result.

Q. And how do you know that the result is accurate?

A. Because the people who sold me the system told me it was accurate.

Q. So, in other words, you didn’t actually analyse the chart did you?

A. No.

Q. But your company has put its name to a document, which may be accurate, or may not be accurate, which has resulted in the dismissal of an employee. Is that a satisfactory set of circumstances?

A. No.

:slight_smile: :slight_smile: :slight_smile: :slight_smile:

On friday, because of all the holdups on the M6. I drove for 5hours 10 mins.And because ive got a digital tacho,i hav’nt got a chart to write the apology on.

So what do i do there?

Tony b

Do a print out and record the reason/explanation on that.

Coffeeholic:
Do a print out and record the reason/explanation on that.

We have to do a printout everyday,and photocopy it on the back of our time sheet.Ive wrote an explanation on that.

But when they download it on to the system,they wont be able to read my expanation off the sheet.

i’ll probably be told that i should plan my journey better.
I once had a rollockin for bookin 60.5 hours.I was pulled into the office to be told 60hours for the week is a maximum,and that i should plan my time better.So when they try and give me a 10 hour run and i’m already on 49/50 hours for the week,i turn it down,saying that i might not get it done if i get held up.

2 can play at their game.

Tony b