i wont name names since i dont do that and couldnt even attempt at pronouncing it but im sure you lot will love to rip this one to bits
a driver allegedly drove his car from peterborough to livingston yesterday and then went on to do what wound up as a 15 hour shift (mainly due to him being absolutely useless at the job ie couldnt find the depot, couldnt work a tail lift or even find the light switch ) which he will be finishing right now. i know commuting doesnt come into duty time but there must be a cut off somewhere surely? thats what, a 7 hour drive then a 15 hour shift? there are clearly ethical and moral arguements regarding safety but i am more interested in the legal aspect since mr manager who allowed him to do the shift (possibly unaware of the commuting time) seems to think that this is the agencies problem and not his. i reckon if the guy had a crash then it would be him touching his toes and being shafted for allowing the guy out in his truck
scanny77:
there are clearly ethical and moral arguements regarding safety
Seems to me they are no ethical or moral standards in this game. I blame the old boys in the good old days who actually brag and gloat on this forum how they ran bent, slept on planks across the seats. How they did everything to gain maximum hours for quite simply GREED. It seems a culture was born in the good old days on seeing how far a driver/mug was prepared to go to get that extra mile. Most industries moved on with the times,unfortunately trucking will always be way behind what is morally acceptable to normal working folks.
If he did have an accident he and the company would be liable as the company gas a duty of care even if he isnât getting paid if he is getting fuel paid for the traveling then they would be in even bigger trouble and yes possible for the tc to be informed not illegal until h&s get involved under duty of care.
He was maybe like the driver on here about a month ago who wanted to travel from hull to somewhere like Northampton to work so he could claim mileage. Must cost more than he makes.
Last week we had an agency driver into Alfreton who did a 15 hour shift after commuting from Tewkesbury. At end of shift he was going back home and the agency had booked him back the next day. Danger on road? Got to be.
Had a phone call yesterday from an agency offering to pay ÂŁ100 on top of the normal shift for commuting to Avonmouth from Hereford, trying to explain that it was a 3 and half hour turn around in commuting after a possible 15 hour shift and that this would be cutting into my daily rest requirements - the agency said it needs covering thatâs why we are giving a ÂŁ100 on top after informing them that I am still not interested the phone was slammed down.
ROG:
Totally legal but also totally daft for the driver to do it
Using absolute minimum times that would be 22 hours at the end of the driving the LGV and then another 7 hour drive home
Would it actually pay to do that as 14 hours of commuting fuel must cost a bit ?
Doesnât this make it illegal ,if the agency is his employer then doesnât the commuting count as other work â â
In cases where a vehicle that comes within the scope of EU rules is at a separate location that is neither
the driverâs home nor the employerâs operational centre where the driver is normally based, the time the
driver spends travelling to or from that location may not be counted as a rest or break, unless the driver
is in a ferry or train and has access to a bunk or couchette
Apparently he is being put up in a hotel to do 4 shifts plus a ÂŁ500 bonus not to mention no assessment which we all have to do annually whether full time, agency or sub contractor. All us locals get is 2nd place to these guys since they want them working for their bonus. This is partly why they cant keep drivers!
ROG:
Totally legal but also totally daft for the driver to do it
Using absolute minimum times that would be 22 hours at the end of the driving the LGV and then another 7 hour drive home
Would it actually pay to do that as 14 hours of commuting fuel must cost a bit ?
Doesnât this make it illegal ,if the agency is his employer then doesnât the commuting count as other work â â
In cases where a vehicle that comes within the scope of EU rules is at a separate location that is neither
the driverâs home nor the employerâs operational centre where the driver is normally based, the time the
driver spends travelling to or from that location may not be counted as a rest or break, unless the driver
is in a ferry or train and has access to a bunk or couchette
Would the bottom bit count if he was an agency driver because he is never normally based anywhere and it would be the employers operational centre
scanny77:
Apparently he is being put up in a hotel to do 4 shifts plus a ÂŁ500 bonus not to mention no assessment which we all have to do annually whether full time, agency or sub contractor. All us locals get is 2nd place to these guys since they want them working for their bonus. This is partly why they cant keep drivers!
Is there no agency drivers up there the ÂŁ500 bonus is more than the wage paid to a local
ROG:
Totally legal but also totally daft for the driver to do it
Using absolute minimum times that would be 22 hours at the end of the driving the LGV and then another 7 hour drive home
Would it actually pay to do that as 14 hours of commuting fuel must cost a bit ?
Doesnât this make it illegal ,if the agency is his employer then doesnât the commuting count as other work â â
In cases where a vehicle that comes within the scope of EU rules is at a separate location that is neither
the driverâs home nor the employerâs operational centre where the driver is normally based, the time the
driver spends travelling to or from that location may not be counted as a rest or break, unless the driver
is in a ferry or train and has access to a bunk or couchette
That only applies if the VEHICLE is not based at home or base
The DRIVER is simply commuting to the vehicle base and there are no laws regarding that
mastesallan:
Had a phone call yesterday from an agency offering to pay ÂŁ100 on top of the normal shift for commuting to Avonmouth from Hereford, trying to explain that it was a 3 and half hour turn around in commuting after a possible 15 hour shift and that this would be cutting into my daily rest requirements - the agency said it needs covering thatâs why we are giving a ÂŁ100 on top after informing them that I am still not interested the phone was slammed down.
Why would you to come from Hereford thereâs loads of agencies in Bristol ?
mastesallan:
Had a phone call yesterday from an agency offering to pay ÂŁ100 on top of the normal shift for commuting to Avonmouth from Hereford, trying to explain that it was a 3 and half hour turn around in commuting after a possible 15 hour shift and that this would be cutting into my daily rest requirements - the agency said it needs covering thatâs why we are giving a ÂŁ100 on top after informing them that I am still not interested the phone was slammed down.
Why would you to come from Hereford thereâs loads of agencies in Bristol ?
Have no idea as to why I was being asked to travel to Bristol from the Gloucester area can only guess that they are short of drivers - maybe - I have enough to get on with in the Gloucestershire area let alone have to commute to Bristol.
On a similar note this gem was told to us on the last DCPC module.
OK youâve worked right up to your 15 hour limit and managed to park up at the services 20 miles from your house.
Your Mrs pops out in the car to pick you up and will return you in the morningâŚweâll all done this, i haveâŚif VOSA see you doing this they will nick you apparently, obviously in practice you wonât have your Mrs drive right up to the lorry and start unloading your kit, but in theory at least thats supposed to be the case.
Cobblers? Yes i think its cobblers too, certainly itâs moral cobblers as what i do in my time is my business, but the trainer insisted this is the case.
Presumably you could walk home over 8 hours and that would be legal?, no iâm flumoxed as well.
What we supposed to do, take covert avoidance training in order to throw off the VOSA spy tailing you, Mr BondâŚ
ROG:
Totally legal but also totally daft for the driver to do it
Using absolute minimum times that would be 22 hours at the end of the driving the LGV and then another 7 hour drive home
Would it actually pay to do that as 14 hours of commuting fuel must cost a bit ?
Doesnât this make it illegal ,if the agency is his employer then doesnât the commuting count as other work â â
In cases where a vehicle that comes within the scope of EU rules is at a separate location that is neither
the driverâs home nor the employerâs operational centre where the driver is normally based, the time the
driver spends travelling to or from that location may not be counted as a rest or break, unless the driver
is in a ferry or train and has access to a bunk or couchette
That only applies if the VEHICLE is not based at home or base
The DRIVER is simply commuting to the vehicle base and there are no laws regarding that
wouldnât the âemployers operational baseâ be the agency though ? .The company he will be driving for is not his employer so he will be driving from home presumably to collect a truck and drive for a client of the agency .
Not disagreeing or anything but it seems a bit vague where agency drivers are concerned
Juddian:
On a similar note this gem was told to us on the last DCPC module.
OK youâve worked right up to your 15 hour limit and managed to park up at the services 20 miles from your house.
Your Mrs pops out in the car to pick you up and will return you in the morningâŚweâll all done this, i haveâŚif VOSA see you doing this they will nick you apparently, obviously in practice you wonât have your Mrs drive right up to the lorry and start unloading your kit, but in theory at least thats supposed to be the case.
Cobblers? Yes i think its cobblers too, certainly itâs moral cobblers as what i do in my time is my business, but the trainer insisted this is the case.
Presumably you could walk home over 8 hours and that would be legal?, no iâm flumoxed as well.
What we supposed to do, take covert avoidance training in order to throw off the VOSA spy tailing you, Mr BondâŚ
This just goes to show how much bull dcpc trainers talk.You have signed off for the day, it`s up to you what you do, and that would surely include taking your own personal items out of the â â â â truck.
Why would you to come from Hereford thereâs loads of agencies in Bristol ?
[/quote]
Our place based at Hereford want agency drivers asap, PM me and I,ll give you the details.
scanny77:
there are clearly ethical and moral arguements regarding safety
Seems to me they are no ethical or moral standards in this game. I blame the old boys in the good old days who actually brag and gloat on this forum how they ran bent, slept on planks across the seats. How they did everything to gain maximum hours for quite simply GREED. It seems a culture was born in the good old days on seeing how far a driver/mug was prepared to go to get that extra mile. Most industries moved on with the times,unfortunately trucking will always be way behind what is morally acceptable to normal working folks.
And the young bloke with a family doesnât finish his shift on a Friday and take the caravan down to Cornwall for the bank holiday?
These old boys had time to stop and help each other, they had time to sleep and have a pint or more with other drivers. Nowadays the modern driver is a lonesome soul who only watches soap operas behind closed curtains.
) which he will be finishing right now. i know commuting doesnt come into duty time but there must be a cut off somewhere surely? thats what, a 7 hour drive then a 15 hour shift? there are clearly ethical and moral arguements regarding safety but i am more interested in the legal aspect since mr manager who allowed him to do the shift (possibly unaware of the commuting time) seems to think that this is the agencies problem and not his. i reckon if the guy had a crash then it would be him touching his toes and being shafted for allowing the guy out in his truck