Apologies Admin, i have posted in wrong section, please move to WTD forum…
Is it true that if more that 50% of the company staff sign the agreement to exceed the 10hr night time shift [ie: opt out] then it can be enforced over the entire staff.
To explain, if i don’t want to work more that 10hrs “working time” and haven’t signed the agreement, can the company allocate work that exceeds the 10hr limit if more than 50% of the workforce has opted-out…?
Opting out of the 48 hour week
If you are 18 or over and wish to work more than 48 hours a week, you can choose to opt out of the 48 hour limit. This must be voluntary and in writing. It can’t be an agreement with the whole workforce and you shouldn’t be sacked or subjected to a detriment (for example, refused promotion or overtime) for refusing to sign an opt-out.If you sign an opt-out, you have the right to cancel this agreement at any time by giving between one week and three months’ notice. You can agree this notice period with your employer when you sign the opt-out. You can cancel an opt-out even if it’s part of a contract you’ve signed.
4.4 Working longer than 10 hours
More than 10 hours work at night can only be performed, if there is a relevant agreement in place. The amount of working time that can be performed is still restricted by the minimum rest requirements under European drivers’ hours rules.Frequently asked questions:
Q: Does the limit apply to you if you only occasionally work at night?A: Yes, unless:
you are an occasional mobile worker (see Section 1.3 - “occasional mobile worker”); or
there is a relevant agreement that allows you to work longer than 10 hours in the 24 hour period.
ROG:
LINK TO INFO SOURCEOpting out of the 48 hour week
If you are 18 or over and wish to work more than 48 hours a week, you can choose to opt out of the 48 hour limit. This must be voluntary and in writing. It can’t be an agreement with the whole workforce and you shouldn’t be sacked or subjected to a detriment (for example, refused promotion or overtime) for refusing to sign an opt-out.If you sign an opt-out, you have the right to cancel this agreement at any time by giving between one week and three months’ notice. You can agree this notice period with your employer when you sign the opt-out. You can cancel an opt-out even if it’s part of a contract you’ve signed.
ROG that quote is from the WTD, but not the WTD for mobile workers.
We, as mobile workers can’t opt out of the 48 hour week, but it has nothing to do with the night workers 10 hour rule anyway.
You having a bad day ? 
tachograph:
ROG that quote is from the WTD, but not the WTD for mobile workers.We, as mobile workers can’t opt out of the 48 hour week, but it has nothing to do with the night workers 10 hour rule anyway.
You having a bad day ?
found the mobile worker link but I did not know that an opt out for LGV night drivers was not an option so thanks for that 
- always learning… 
bbez:
Apologies Admin, i have posted in wrong section, please move to WTD forum…Is it true that if more that 50% of the company staff sign the agreement to exceed the 10hr night time shift [ie: opt out] then it can be enforced over the entire staff.
To explain, if i don’t want to work more that 10hrs “working time” and haven’t signed the agreement, can the company allocate work that exceeds the 10hr limit if more than 50% of the workforce has opted-out…?
It depends on how the workforce agreement was brought into play.
Legally I don’t think it’s as simple as saying that over 50% have voted in favour of an opt out agreement.
If the workforce agreement was initiated properly as described bellow, then I would say that you would need to comply with it.
But either way you should understand that going against the wishes of the majority of the workforce could put you in a vulnerable position.
WTD for mobile workers:
7.1 Relevant AgreementsThese can be either a collective agreement or work force agreement.
In general, employers and workers can agree to extend the reference period for the average 48 hour working time limit up to a maximum of 26 weeks and agree whether this will be monitored using a fixed or rolling method (see Section 3.7 - “who decides what reference period should be used”). Agreements can also be used to exceed the 10 hour limit for night work (see Section 4.4 - “working longer than 10 hours”).
These agreements can be made by ‘collective agreement’ (between the employer and an independent trade union) or a ‘workforce agreement’. If a worker has any part of their conditions determined by a collective agreement they cannot be subject to a workforce agreement.
Whether a collective agreement entered into by trade union representatives with a particular employer will apply to all the workers, union and non-union doing the relevant work, depends on the arrangements at that individual workplace and the terms of the workers’ contracts.
A workforce agreement is made with elected representatives of the workforce in most cases (see below). A workforce agreement can apply to the whole workforce or to a group of workers. The conditions relating to a workforce agreement are as follows:
- an election must be conducted and those voting must be able to do so in secret;
- the votes must be fairly and accurately counted;
- candidates for election must be relevant members of the workforce or in the case of a group of workers they must be members of the group;
- workers must be able to vote for as many candidates as there are representatives to be elected; and
- the number of representatives to be elected is to be determined by the employer.
To be valid, a workforce agreement:
- must be in writing and have effect for a specific period (not exceeding 5 years);
- have been circulated in draft to all workers to whom it applies together with the guidance to assist their understanding of it; and
- be signed before it comes into effect either:
o by all the representatives of the members of the workforce or group of workers; or
o if there are 20 workers or fewer employed by a company, either by all representatives of a workforce or by a majority of the workforce.
this subject leads me to wonder - is it right that if you start work before 4am you can only work max 9 hours? is this just for drivers or ALL employment sectors? and also does it inculde breaks
tramp:
this subject leads me to wonder - is it right that if you start work before 4am you can only work max 9 hours? is this just for drivers or ALL employment sectors? and also does it inculde breaks
For the WTD for mobile workers:
Night time is defined as 00:00 to 04:00 for goods vehicles and 01:00 to 05:00 for passenger vehicles.
If you do any work during night time (00:00 to 04:00 goods vehicles) you’re restricted to a maximum of 10 hours work during the 24 hour period starting from the beginning of the shift, this is actual working time and does not include breaks or POA.
You can opt out of the night workers 10 hour rule if there’s a workforce agreement in place.
For the general WTD see here
If you are going to join a company and are, or maybe will be, doing nights and you do not wish to exceed the 10 hour bit then I would suggest having that fact put in a contract. Whatever the rest of the workforce then decide will not affect you as it would mean a breach of contract,
ROG:
If you are going to join a company and are, or maybe will be, doing nights and you do not wish to exceed the 10 hour bit then I would suggest having that fact put in a contract. Whatever the rest of the workforce then decide will not affect you as it would mean a breach of contract,
I’m afraid the problem with asking for these things to be put into a contract is that unless you have some special skill or ability that the company needs you probably won’t get the job, so it won’t be a problem
tachograph:
ROG:
If you are going to join a company and are, or maybe will be, doing nights and you do not wish to exceed the 10 hour bit then I would suggest having that fact put in a contract. Whatever the rest of the workforce then decide will not affect you as it would mean a breach of contract,I’m afraid the problem with asking for these things to be put into a contract is that unless you have some special skill or ability that the company needs you probably won’t get the job, so it won’t be a problem
TRUE - choice is with the candidate - make clear and chance not getting the job or keep ‘mum’ and hope it never happens.
Rog & Tachograph, thank you for the heads up, basically, i’ve only been with them for 6 weeks and due to being salaried, i don’t want to do more than 10hrs “working time” per night or i’d be working for nothing ;~)
It’s not my fault that i don’t know about waiting time in advance, and when i ask them at where i tip, they can’t say, “oh, we’ll tip you in 20mins”, so i’m keeping my card on the cross hammers.
When i went in yesterday, i was hit with a bit of paper and told to “read it and sign it”, which i did, as i’m last in the door and just want to get on with a shift without any grief.
At least as you mentioned, i can now wipe out any POA entries and not worry about breaking the 10hr working time night rule, as i’ve opted-out and i still can only average 48hr week, and they’ll have to keep that in mind when allocating work over the 17 week period.
Thanks again, Bar