Caterpillar used to be fitted to Fodens and some ERFs at one time and many are still in daily use , what are they really like ,and would they have been a good replacement for ■■■■■■■ ?.
I think they had a ( deserved ) better reputation than ■■■■■■■ at least in regards to torque output ( 6.5 inch stroke 3406 v 6 inch 14 litre ■■■■■■■ for example ) and knowing how to make a decent V8.
My cousin had a 14 l 425 and later the c15 455 the torque was greater than anything else at the time ,he never had any trouble with them ,however they do seem to have a bad reputation for smoking (earlier models ) and the c10/c12 cranks floating ,they’re a bit like marmite .
Dan Punchard:
My cousin had a 14 l 425 and later the c15 455 the torque was greater than anything else at the time ,he never had any trouble with them ,however they do seem to have a bad reputation for smoking (earlier models ) and the c10/c12 cranks floating ,they’re a bit like marmite .
I was told that the early C12’s fitted to Foden trucks suffered with excessive endfloat and crank damage that was caused by the spring tension of the clutch. If that were correst it was obviously something they sorted at a later date. During the late 80’s many people round here bought Foden 8 wheelers with the 3306 engine which suffered from water, overheating and head gasket failures.
^^ ye this too .
We ran a Foden with a Cat engine, finally replaced with a ■■■■■■■ like many other operators did! Could never understand how an engine that was superb when fitted to plant could be so unreliable in a road vehicle, maybe operating conditions had something to do with it and they were better running at constant rpm and temperature in loading shovels than the variable rpm and heating/cooling in road vehicles ? 
Head gasket problems, drinking oil, crank bearings knocked out…I believe the later engine’s were better though. Still the early ■■■■■■■ L10’s were cr*p but later ones were a good engine, especially in a six wheeler rigid.
Pete.
Dan Punchard:
^^ ye this too .
I get the vibe Dan that if it has a ■■■■■■■ engine and a Wilcox body fitted then you are happy !!!
windrush:
We ran a Foden with a Cat engine, finally replaced with a ■■■■■■■ like many other operators did! Could never understand how an engine that was superb when fitted to plant could be so unreliable in a road vehicle, maybe operating conditions had something to do with it and they were better running at constant rpm and temperature in loading shovels than the variable rpm and heating/cooling in road vehicles ?Pete.
Still running Cat powered (and ■■■■■■■■ Foden’s at present and found them to be nothing short of fantastic. Ran a 2001 C12 430 on the road from 2002 til 3 or 4 years ago before putting it onto site work and in 750000km the only problem experienced was 1 injector. However, we had a newer C12 fail but more because the local dealer failed to inform us after reporting coolant usage that when a Cat water pump fails it leaks internally. Also, we found the 450 Cat more fuel efficient on tipper work than the M11 420 but both the Cat and ■■■■■■■ have proved to be very reliable for many years.
ISHIFT5:
Still running Cat powered (and ■■■■■■■■ Foden’s at present and found them to be nothing short of fantastic. Ran a 2001 C12 430 on the road from 2002 til 3 or 4 years ago before putting it onto site work and in 750000km the only problem experienced was 1 injector. However, we had a newer C12 fail but more because the local dealer failed to inform us after reporting coolant usage that when a Cat water pump fails it leaks internally. Also, we found the 450 Cat more fuel efficient on tipper work than the M11 420 but both the Cat and ■■■■■■■ have proved to be very reliable for many years.
Not sure what engine our one had, it was in a 1988 Foden eight legger bought second hand and I think that in three years it had gone through several head gaskets. There was a spacer between block and head I believe that gave problems sealing, I only ever drove it for one day and it didn’t pull as well as the Rolls 265 Li’s we had at low rpm’s, you needed to rev it like the L10’s.
Pete.
Caterpillar used the spacer plate to avoid the counterbore in the top of the block an the potential for cracks in the corners.
There was a mod on the 300 HP 3306B engine which involved drilling down in the head to link water galleries and provide better cooling to 5&6. They also changed the exhaust manifold studs, they used to snap like carrots. Levertons were kept busy.
We used both in AWD Multidrives. The 425 3406B was a phenomenal engine. It’s ability to hang on down to 1200 revs was nothing short of amazing, it’s abilty to pop ZF MPM 3rd diffs was also pretty good.
AWD used the same Covrad setup that Foden used, it was impossible to get anything bigger in. From memory there was not much head. If you lost a bit of coolant it was soon down to Cyl head level.
As said earlier, I think they were happier at constant temperature, pulling hard and then coasting down cycled everything and caused problems. If they had all had Jakes fitted it might have been different…
FodenS80:
Caterpillar used the spacer plate to avoid the counterbore in the top of the block an the potential for cracks in the corners.
There was a mod on the 300 HP 3306B engine which involved drilling down in the head to link water galleries and provide better cooling to 5&6. They also changed the exhaust manifold studs, they used to snap like carrots. Levertons were kept busy.
We used both in AWD Multidrives. The 425 3406B was a phenomenal engine. It’s ability to hang on down to 1200 revs was nothing short of amazing, it’s abilty to pop ZF MPM 3rd diffs was also pretty good.
AWD used the same Covrad setup that Foden used, it was impossible to get anything bigger in. From memory there was not much head. If you lost a bit of coolant it was soon down to Cyl head level.
As said earlier, I think they were happier at constant temperature, pulling hard and then coasting down cycled everything and caused problems. If they had all had Jakes fitted it might have been different…
Did the 3306 go on to become the C10 ?
I can’t understand that either Pete ,I’ve seen some c10 s with biscuit tin fixed under the bell housing with sponge in ,Stephen Dale likes his cats although I think he’s cured the end float issues .
ISHIFT5:
FodenS80:
Caterpillar used the spacer plate to avoid the counterbore in the top of the block an the potential for cracks in the corners.
There was a mod on the 300 HP 3306B engine which involved drilling down in the head to link water galleries and provide better cooling to 5&6. They also changed the exhaust manifold studs, they used to snap like carrots. Levertons were kept busy.
We used both in AWD Multidrives. The 425 3406B was a phenomenal engine. It’s ability to hang on down to 1200 revs was nothing short of amazing, it’s abilty to pop ZF MPM 3rd diffs was also pretty good.
AWD used the same Covrad setup that Foden used, it was impossible to get anything bigger in. From memory there was not much head. If you lost a bit of coolant it was soon down to Cyl head level.
As said earlier, I think they were happier at constant temperature, pulling hard and then coasting down cycled everything and caused problems. If they had all had Jakes fitted it might have been different…Did the 3306 go on to become the C10 ?
I guess so, 3306B was 10L, 3406B 14.6L or 15…
Dan Punchard:
I can’t understand that either Pete ,I’ve seen some c10 s with biscuit tin fixed under the bell housing with sponge in ,Stephen Dale likes his cats although I think he’s cured the end float issues .
I went into Daley’s garage a few years ago now Dan and he had a Cat in (not his) with the bottom end knocked out, in all the time I was at Ballidon I can’t recal a Gardner, Rolls or ■■■■■■■ engine with main or big end end problems like that? It hadn’t run low on oil either, maybe the oil pump drive sheared? Obviously they are a good engine nowadays as there are plenty about.
Pete.
I’ve driven several, the oldest was the first tipper I drove, an F reg Foden 4300, Cat powered. At 30.400 it pulled really well. I moved onto an N reg 6w Foden 3275. That ■■■■■■■ C10 had knackered pistons (a fault that several Smiths 3000s had), I then had a Cat powered 4340 6w (S reg). This was my favourite wagon to date. Pulled like a train, and sounded like one with it’s 3 stage Jake Brake.The only problem was it ate alternators at about 1 a year. I was then given a new Alpha 6w with the 345bhp C12. Pulled brilliantly and was fantastic on fuel (I was averaging 9.8mpg when I was taken off it). On my short lived stint driving a loading shovel, I drove a Cat 972H-basically a 966 with a touch more power and a bigger bucket. Have to say, the tree hugging laws reigned in Cat engines, the 972 wasn’t a patch on one of Smiths late '80s 966s.
The best Cat engined product I’ve ever driven was a Cat 988B loading shovel. An absolute monster, it smoked so much when working the rock face, you’d think it was coal fired. 
Paul Griffiths with their first Cat 300 powered Foden, which was considered very powerful around here in 1986. Can’t remember much wrong with this one.
Cheers Dave.
Depends on what your looking for, and what models you are comparing… We’ve been running both the top end stuff for years, out on the open highway there’s not much in it but when it comes to grunt when you need it ■■■■■■■ has it by a fair margin. The Cat engine brake is a long way short of the ■■■■■■■■ Out in the steep forest we’re all have ■■■■■■■ under the cab… If you want a Cat engine in a truck here you have to buy a Cat truck, they no longer supply to other manufacturers…
That’s the short answer. I’m of to work now so I can’t go to far into it at the moment…
Jeff…
ISHIFT5:
Dan Punchard:
^^ ye this too .I get the vibe Dan that if it has a ■■■■■■■ engine and a Wilcox body fitted then you are happy !!!
Plus a bit of fibreglass a bit from eaton & rockwell
We only had Cats in the diggers,when they were right nothing could touch them,main problems were cracked liners,cyl/heads, injectors.The liners had shims under them at the top ,I think they were set at 0.015 proud.we had no bottom end trouble really,but as stated these are not high revving engines and are happiest at constant speed,hence the fitted balance bars.The injectors were the screw on throw away type like the transit van .Quite a simplistic uncomplicated engine really. 
I had a C15 550hp in a Peterbilt, it was a beast of a thing, pulled like a train, but it was a thirsty thing and not the most reliable and very expensive to repair.