COUNTABLE NOUN
An egomaniac is someone who thinks only of themselves and does not care if they harm other people in order to get what they want.
[disapproval]
Adam is clever enough, but he’s also something of an egomaniac.
ADJECTIVE [usually verb-link ADJECTIVE]
If you are oblivious to something or oblivious of it, you are not aware of it.
She lay motionless where she was, oblivious to pain. [+ to/of]
Llewelyn appeared oblivious of his surroundings.
I know how some struggle with definitions, you’re welcome
Now I’m confused -
Who’s Adam ? (tell me he’s the passenger we are all so worried about )
Yorkshire Tramper:
Well hopefully that puts an end to that saga. I think it is quite clear that unless you are a solicitor the rules are very difficult to understand for your average driver to fully understand. I think we have to resign ourselves to either accepting infringements without fully understanding that we have done anything wrong or possibly go down the route of learning the rules into plain english that are not open to interpretation. Once you are interpreting the rules of driving that is where the water muddys. Applying common sense is the only thing that most of us can do.
Got to add…, I really don’t give a flying one if I get an infringement, life is too short to worry about unimportant things., it’s if it leads to any sort of fine I’m concerneded about, and that is why I keep a balance of trying to do things legal. but if circumstances prevail.whereby I inadvertantly do not, I ain’t too bothered either.
I’ve seen drivers acting if it’s the end of their world if they are approached by the office on all this. ,.which was part of my original point in the first place.
robroy:
Got to add…, I really don’t give a flying one if I get an infringement, life is too short to worry about unimportant things., it’s if it leads to any sort of fine I’m concerneded about, and that is why I keep a balance of trying to do things legal. but if circumstances prevail.whereby I inadvertantly do not, I ain’t too bothered either.
I’ve seen drivers acting if it’s the end of their world if they are approached by the office on all this. ,.which was part of my original point in the first place.
Indeed robroy I wonder what some on here would make of some of the things we used to get up to many years ago . . I had many a run in with the Vosa/ DVSA / Ministry in my time - couldn’t say I was ever treated unfairly -if I was wrong I explained why I’d done what I had and took my punishment , many times I got away with a warning and a few times the person interviewing me agreed that although I’d broken the law I’d done the right thing and no further action was taken it is what it is / was . I don’t care how ■■■■ anyone is about following the rules if you get the right VOSA person they will dig and dig until they find something wrong its the attitude of the driver that determines the outcome of a pull at a VOSA station .
robroy:
Got to add…, I really don’t give a flying one if I get an infringement, life is too short to worry about unimportant things., it’s if it leads to any sort of fine I’m concerneded about, and that is why I keep a balance of trying to do things legal. but if circumstances prevail.whereby I inadvertantly do not, I ain’t too bothered either.
I’ve seen drivers acting if it’s the end of their world if they are approached by the office on all this. ,.which was part of my original point in the first place.
Indeed robroy I wonder what some on here would make of some of the things we used to get up to many years ago . . I had many a run in with the Vosa/ DVSA / Ministry in my time - couldn’t say I was ever treated unfairly -if I was wrong I explained why I’d done what I had and took my punishment , many times I got away with a warning and a few times the person interviewing me agreed that although I’d broken the law I’d done the right thing and no further action was taken it is what it is / was . I don’t care how ■■■■ anyone is about following the rules if you get the right VOSA person they will dig and dig until they find something wrong its the attitude of the driver that determines the outcome of a pull at a VOSA station .
Got pulled at the local VOSA weighbridge about 5 yrs after I’d finished with my own motors.
Guy saw my face, looked at my name.,.realised who I was,.smiled and said …''Ahh yes, Rob ######, that name rings a bell,.you’re the guy who ‘‘had the fire’’ ,.a few years ago, conveniently the day before we were due to come and check all your records. .
Another time,.a few years later got stopped same place, local weighbridge. driving a lhd Belgian regd motor,.VOSA guy spoke to me as all.English people speak to foreigners,.shouting and in ‘broken English’ …a bit like Fools and Horses , Uncle Albert to the German girl ‘Vot ist your name ‘’ type of way , thinking they’ll understand better.
‘‘Good Morning to you,.how are you’’ …
His face was a picture when I answered in the same obvious local accent as him.
.’‘Aye I’m spot on mate, how are you’'.
I was double manning on Thursday and at Caen when booking in they want to check drivers licence now for UK drivers. I only had my passport in my pocket so said the other guy who had his licence was the driver, after waiting 40mins to book in after getting my passport stamped I wasn’t going back to the truck to fetch it. Lucky they didn’t ask who was in slot 1 or 2
robroy:
I’ve seen drivers acting if it’s the end of their world if they are approached by the office on all this. ,.which was part of my original point in the first place.
I know it was, and I fully agree with you btw. I just sign infringement notices without giving too much thought process into it. It really isnt the end of the world and nothing serious enough to lose any sleep over. The rules are not straight forward and not easy to navigate, therefore it is inevitable at some point the odd infringement will happen and does.
stevieboy308:
You’re conflating 2 different things, a driver running out of time say an hour from the yard who doesn’t want to night out and a driver who’s broken down, the truck needs recovering
The point stands, once you’re out of duty time, your only option is rest, if it’s impossible for you to comply because of exceptional unforeseen circumstances, then it’s impossible for you to comply and the legislation makes provisions for that so you’re not prosecuted.
I’m not conflating anything. Your comment was that a driver who runs out of duty time cannot be recovered under any circumstances. I simply pointed out that in my scenario, the driver can effectively be recovered since he’s not driving the broken down truck.
stevieboy308:
You’re conflating 2 different things, a driver running out of time say an hour from the yard who doesn’t want to night out and a driver who’s broken down, the truck needs recovering
The point stands, once you’re out of duty time, your only option is rest, if it’s impossible for you to comply because of exceptional unforeseen circumstances, then it’s impossible for you to comply and the legislation makes provisions for that so you’re not prosecuted.
I’m not conflating anything. Your comment was that a driver who runs out of duty time cannot be recovered under any circumstances. I simply pointed out that in my scenario, the driver can effectively be recovered since he’s not driving the broken down truck.
stevieboy308:
You can’t be rescued by any means if you’re out of duty time
Please point out where I stated under any circumstances?
"Article 8
A driver shall take daily and weekly rest periods.
Within each period of 24 hours after the end of the previous daily rest period or weekly rest period a driver shall have taken a new daily rest period."
Is the legislation wrong to not state there at the end of that unless of exceptional unforeseen circumstances? No, it deals with it as a separate issue as that’s what it is!
No you simply added an a scenario of an exceptional unforeseen event that made it impossible for you to comply with the 561/2006 legislation, so yes you are conflating 2 separate things to try and score a point, but you don’t!
stevieboy308:
You’re conflating 2 different things, a driver running out of time say an hour from the yard who doesn’t want to night out and a driver who’s broken down, the truck needs recovering
The point stands, once you’re out of duty time, your only option is rest, if it’s impossible for you to comply because of exceptional unforeseen circumstances, then it’s impossible for you to comply and the legislation makes provisions for that so you’re not prosecuted.
I’m not conflating anything. Your comment was that a driver who runs out of duty time cannot be recovered under any circumstances. I simply pointed out that in my scenario, the driver can effectively be recovered since he’s not driving the broken down truck.
stevieboy308:
You can’t be rescued by any means if you’re out of duty time
Please point out where I stated under any circumstances?
"Article 8
A driver shall take daily and weekly rest periods.
Within each period of 24 hours after the end of the previous daily rest period or weekly rest period a driver shall have taken a new daily rest period."
Is the legislation wrong to not state there at the end of that unless of exceptional unforeseen circumstances? No, it deals with it as a separate issue as that’s what it is!
No you simply added an a scenario of an exceptional unforeseen event that made it impossible for you to comply with the 561/2006 legislation, so yes you are conflating 2 separate things to try and score a point, but you don’t!
It is quite obvious that you have a good grasp and possibly an expert understanding of the rules and regs. I would like to see you put a post up on your knowledge of this topic as I am certain that you could enlighten us and possibly help a few of us out explaining the rules in simplified terms. Petty bickering and trying to score points is not the way in my opinion. Not suggesting you are doing that btw, but I like to read posts on here that are factural and informative. I feel you have the knowledge to help a lot of puzzled drivers out which would be appreciated. Just an idea thats all.
stevieboy308:
You can’t be rescued by any means if you’re out of duty time
You’ve got to be kidding! How can such idiocy be justified?
So if a driver arrives back at the yard, as he runs out of hours, he can’t drive home, or be picked up?
ROBROY FOR PM. Get some common sense into the legislation.
The rate you lot are turning over PMs, you could do it on your days off, mate.
Oh, hang on, you’d have to do a manual entry when you got back to your real job.
stevieboy308:
You can’t be rescued by any means if you’re out of duty time
You’ve got to be kidding! How can such idiocy be justified?
So if a driver arrives back at the yard, as he runs out of hours, he can’t drive home, or be picked up?
ROBROY FOR PM. Get some common sense into the legislation.
The rate you lot are turning over PMs, you could do it on your days off, mate.
Oh, hang on, you’d have to do a manual entry when you got back to your real job.
No.
Simply, ignoring breakdowns, accidents etc.
If a driver runs out of hours the yard can`t send out a van ,and have the van and driver return to the yard while another bod drives the truck.
If a driver runs out of hours away from home, her husband can collect her, and run her back to the same place to collect truck in the morning. That can take hours but is legal.
If a driver gets to depot on the hours limit, then they lock the truck up, and then can do most anything. Go home or hike 25mls or whatever.
stevieboy308:
You can’t be rescued by any means if you’re out of duty time
You’ve got to be kidding! How can such idiocy be justified?
So if a driver arrives back at the yard, as he runs out of hours, he can’t drive home, or be picked up?
ROBROY FOR PM. Get some common sense into the legislation.
The rate you lot are turning over PMs, you could do it on your days off, mate.
Oh, hang on, you’d have to do a manual entry when you got back to your real job.
No.
Simply, ignoring breakdowns, accidents etc.
If a driver runs out of hours the yard can`t send out a van ,and have the van and driver return to the yard while another bod drives the truck.
If a driver runs out of hours away from home, her husband can collect her, and run her back to the same place to collect truck in the morning. That can take hours but is legal.
If a driver gets to depot on the hours limit, then they lock the truck up, and then can do most anything. Go home or hike 25mls or whatever.
Could he be driven back in the van, as a passenger?
stevieboy308:
You can’t be rescued by any means if you’re out of duty time
You’ve got to be kidding! How can such idiocy be justified?
So if a driver arrives back at the yard, as he runs out of hours, he can’t drive home, or be picked up?
ROBROY FOR PM. Get some common sense into the legislation.
The rate you lot are turning over PMs, you could do it on your days off, mate.
Oh, hang on, you’d have to do a manual entry when you got back to your real job.
No.
Simply, ignoring breakdowns, accidents etc.
If a driver runs out of hours the yard can`t send out a van ,and have the van and driver return to the yard while another bod drives the truck.
If a driver runs out of hours away from home, her husband can collect her, and run her back to the same place to collect truck in the morning. That can take hours but is legal.
If a driver gets to depot on the hours limit, then they lock the truck up, and then can do most anything. Go home or hike 25mls or whatever.
Could he be driven back in the van, as a passenger?
No. (Quick version again) Not if he is out of working time.
Possible if out of driving time, but still with work time left.
Leave depot at 06hr00. Run out of drive time at 16hr00. Lift back, for 18hr00, no problem.
Leave depot at 06hr00. Run out of work time at 21hr00. Back t depot for 23hr00, and start at 06hr00 the next day! No way.
If youre in a work vehicle youre at work. (Exceptions may apply, quick version only)
That way the company is extending the drivers working day.
Get back to depot 16hrs or more after leaving it?
stevieboy308:
You can’t be rescued by any means if you’re out of duty time
You’ve got to be kidding! How can such idiocy be justified?
So if a driver arrives back at the yard, as he runs out of hours, he can’t drive home, or be picked up?
ROBROY FOR PM. Get some common sense into the legislation.
The rate you lot are turning over PMs, you could do it on your days off, mate.
Oh, hang on, you’d have to do a manual entry when you got back to your real job.
No.
Simply, ignoring breakdowns, accidents etc.
If a driver runs out of hours the yard can`t send out a van ,and have the van and driver return to the yard while another bod drives the truck.
If a driver runs out of hours away from home, her husband can collect her, and run her back to the same place to collect truck in the morning. That can take hours but is legal.
If a driver gets to depot on the hours limit, then they lock the truck up, and then can do most anything. Go home or hike 25mls or whatever.
Could he be driven back in the van, as a passenger?
No, the rule is from when you start a shift you have a max of 24 hours (30 if multi Manning just to deflect a shot someone might want to take!) To complete the shift and have the required rest, so once you’ve done 13/15 hours your only option is rest, (unless exceptional unforeseen circumstances!)
And when traveling to take charge or from a truck that’s under the EU regulations that’s not at the driver’s home or operational center where they are normally based, then this time can’t be rest or break (unless on a ferry or train with access to a bed) it’s irrelevant what mode of transport is used or if the driver gets paid etc. As it’s basically part of the work journey.
You can’t take a rest period in a moving vehicle, but you can take a break.
On a rest period you are free to dispose of your time as you wish, so you could go where you want and so long as you start the the next shift where you finish the last it’s all legal.
If this wasn’t the case you would have the extreme example again of starting on the south coast, drive 10 hours north in the truck, be rescued back to the south coast and repeat
Star down under.:
ROBROY FOR PM. Get some common sense into the legislation.
No chance, ■■■■ that… I’d make Liz Truss look like Winston Churchill.
Definitely with you on the ‘‘common sense side of things,…I ain’t talking about blatant fiddling or fraud in order to make your boss or yourself richer by getting through more work either , those days have gone in most cases and rightly so…but some of these rules are just ■■■■ ridiculously stupid, but none of them are carved in stone nor written in blood…
So to simplify things as to the way I see things, …
Where you are facing the choice of either ‘‘suffering’’ or an easy time/life , like my scenario of either getting a lift off a colleague or walking home in the ■■■■■■■ rain, only an idiot (or a terminally obsessed serial conformist ) would take the latter choice for the reason of…’‘It’s the law’’.
That’s the type of scenario where common sense would kick in for me personally.and for most on here I would hazard a guess.
Still say that ‘‘they’’ gave succeeded in making some drivers into ‘‘neurotic nervous wrecks’’ with a lot of this stuff…but after all,that was the aim.
Another daft one on my ‘‘Aye and ■■■■ that list’’ …not being alllowed now to kip in your ‘‘luxury toplinegiggatrotter cab’’ after a certain period (can’t be arsed to look it up) if weekended abroad say, …ok, I’l sleep under the trailer, or pitch my tent outside, that’ll be legal.
‘‘Common sense’’.
We used to have three modes, Work, Driving and Rest. Now we have two, Work and Rest.
Depending upon the scheme under which a driver is working, they can work 12 hours (Standard), 14 hours (Basic), 15.5 hours (Advanced).
Basic and Advanced are attained by completing a half day course. The course is a total waste of time, simply a money making scheme for more of the parasites that make a greater fortune out of the industry than transport companies or owner drivers.
Companies have to send a representative to complete a supervisor course, to gain accreditation and be able to take advantage of accredited drivers.
If a driver runs out of hours, he can drive a company vehicle, provided the vehicle is below 12.5 tonne GVM.
To get back on track, we can carry genuine passengers, without issue.
Star down under.:
ROBROY FOR PM. Get some common sense into the legislation.
No chance, [zb] that… I’d make Liz Truss look like Winston Churchill.
Definitely with you on the ‘‘common sense side of things,…I ain’t talking about blatant fiddling or fraud in order to make your boss or yourself richer by getting through more work either , those days have gone in most cases and rightly so…but some of these rules are just [zb] ridiculously stupid, but none of them are carved in stone nor written in blood…
So to simplify things as to the way I see things, …
Where you are facing the choice of either ‘‘suffering’’ or an easy time/life , like my scenario of either getting a lift off a colleague or walking home in the ■■■■■■■ rain, only an idiot (or a terminally obsessed serial conformist ) would take the latter choice for the reason of…’‘It’s the law’’.
That’s the type of scenario where common sense would kick in for me personally.and for most on here I would hazard a guess.
Still say that ‘‘they’’ gave succeeded in making some drivers into ‘‘neurotic nervous wrecks’’ with a lot of this stuff…but after all,that was the aim.
Another daft one on my ‘‘Aye and [zb] that list’’ …not being alllowed now to kip in your ‘‘luxury toplinegiggatrotter cab’’ after a certain period (can’t be arsed to look it up) if weekended abroad say, …ok, I’l sleep under the trailer, or pitch my tent outside, that’ll be legal.
‘‘Common sense’’.
Yeah mate, on the common sense thing, working out of Brisbane, on a week (6 day) run return, day one will get me 10/15 minutes short of a place where I can park in the shade, have access to toilet, shower, internet and all the amenities provided by a roadhouse.
If I run the extra ten minutes, to get a decent rest, instead of parking on a gravel pad beside the highway, without any facilities, I risk a fine of over a grand.
Yep, I take the punt; it’s okay to bend the rules, just don’t break them, or get caught.
^^^^^^^
Yep that is what I always say on here,.and get stick for off the self righteous and the borg like conformists …
Whether it be anybody between Boris and his parties and me on a dodgy night out,…
It ain’t the ‘‘crime’’ that’s the fault, it’s getting caught.
I’ll guarantee some absolute ball bag is thinking of putting a reply post along the lines of…‘‘Does that include murder’’.
robroy:
^^^^^^^
Yep that is what I always say on here,.and get stick for off the self righteous and the borg like conformists …
Whether it be anybody between Boris and his parties and me on a dodgy night out,…
It ain’t the ‘‘crime’’ that’s the fault, it’s getting caught. Then there’s other stuff like putting your card in slot 2 when you’re required too, or not moving within a break anymore despite the tacho looking like it’s just recorded it all as break, no leeway on that, so the risk:reward just doesn’t stack up for me.
I’ll guarantee some absolute ball bag is thinking of putting a reply post along the lines of…‘‘Does that include murder’’.
You might be confusing explaining what the rules are so people can decide what to do given the information on what they are supposed to do and what the possible consequences are if they don’t and religiously following following everything to the N’th degree.
But I certainly don’t give them any open goals to give me a fine, as that’d be just
Daft!
And when you know what you can actually do before you’ll get fined, which in a lot of cases most people wouldn’t believe how much over you can be, then you know there’s nothing to stress about anyway.
Then there’s other stuff like putting your card in slot 2 when you’re required too, or not moving within a break anymore despite the tacho looking like it’s just recorded it all as break, no leeway on that, so the risk:reward just doesn’t stack up for me.
You just come across as anti everything just for the sake of it.
Like is it a crazy idea to say you can’t spend 45 hours or more on rest in the truck and the firm must pay for suitable accommodation instead?
,.which was part of my original point in the first place.
. I had many a run in with the Vosa/ DVSA / Ministry in my time - couldn’t say I was ever treated unfairly -if I was wrong I explained why I’d done what I had and took my punishment , many times I got away with a warning and a few times the person interviewing me agreed that although I’d broken the law I’d done the right thing and no further action was taken it is what it is / was . I don’t care how ■■■■ anyone is about following the rules if you get the right VOSA person they will dig and dig until they find something wrong its the attitude of the driver that determines the outcome of a pull at a VOSA station .
No chance, ■■■■ that… I’d make Liz Truss look like Winston Churchill. 
