Is it correct that a well known haulier that supplies Morrisons in Gibraltar,would not allow a probational,or new driver to cross the Carolinas mountains,until after gained experience.When wet,that pass is very dangerous,and many trucks have gone down the side of the mountains,including Colin,an owner driver who had 2 Ford Transcons with Euro PSL,who lost control at road works.The Guarda Civil could not find his head,due to being decapulated by the accident,for a few days,but found his remains eventually.The Gib company was Continental Express.Apart from the old IP5,Villa Formoso to Guarda in Portugal,this must be one of the dangerous routes in Spain.What are the other routes where one mistake can be fatal,and has high accident rates,especially for trucks,in Europe?
Yep thats what iv heard. There is a lead driver who will do the mountain passes so as the second man just sit back relax and take in the views… We are talking about the same company right… mainly Scanias in the fleet
Well if that is true it is the most pathetic thing that I have heard in my life.
How the hell do they expect them to learn then ?
The roads in Spain have improved a hell of a lot since I first drove down here and all these “mountain passes” were a lot worse than they are now.
And look I am still alive must be a bloody miracle heh ?
Think the mountain pass you are referring to is “El Desfiladero de Despeñaperros” and if treated with respect is no big deal.
IMHO a greater danger lies about 240 K’s further down the road, Malaga hill, simply due to it being 20+ K’s and all down hill with a few fast bits and a few tight bends to catch you out if you’ve cooked your brakes.
Even with modern trucks its not unusual to see someone on their side or through the barrier, especially in the wet.
Vascoingles:
Well if that is true it is the most pathetic thing that I have heard in my life.
How the hell do they expect them to learn then ?
The roads in Spain have improved a hell of a lot since I first drove down here and all these “mountain passes” were a lot worse than they are now.And look I am still alive must be a bloody miracle heh ?
does sound abit daft. they should make the drivers aware, that you have too be abit more careful on this stretch, but that should be enough. can be a tricky stretch, especially in the wet, but, even fully freighted, plod down, and you’ll be fine. i normally get passed by lots on the way down, but the amount i’ve seen gone over, or smashed up, on that stretch, is enough too make me think, my normal approach works well enough.
i’m with vascoingles and square peg, the roads have improved so much over the last few years, compared too the “good ol days”, god, i sound old 
the old n2, and the old road, up turel, and onto zarragoza, miguels anyone 
even better onesif you take the old national road across the mountains from Oviedo towards Leon or from Ciudad Real to Zamora
Yes.It is the “Despenapparros”.Agree on Granada to Motril hills,can overheat brakes on that long stretch.Would have thought once got a LGV licence,that Cont.Express would think thats enough without a co pilot checking you out on the way to Gibraltar.Miguels is still in operation,huge liver meal,theyhave knocked down the hotel/restaurant that was on your right,going towards Vitoria,next stop after is Miguels.What about the long hard climb before they put the tunnels in from Irun to Pamlona.Lot of trucks went over the side of the mountain in the 90``.Didnt one of Ing`s transport get killed that way,guy with long hair and glasses,was a bit mad.And a driver that was in an agents car,and a motorbike hit the side of the car and killed him.Might have been a PJK or Davies driver,in the Madrid area.Do miss clearing customs,waiting at Alverca(Smelly sewer,big mosquitoes),and Ter Tir,Porto.International restaurant opposite.Beach at weekends.
toby1234abc:
Yes.It is the “Despenapparros”.Agree on Granada to Motril hills,can overheat brakes on that long stretch.
Road I was meaning was Granada to Malaga, N113 I think (not got a map to hand at the moment)
Wasn’t one of mine. All my lot came back alive, one or two without the truck but that’s another story. You might be thinking of Reg Irwin who i heard came to a sticky end down there. He worked for me for a while but we had a parting of the ways long before he went to meet his maker.
There’s nothing dangerous about the two roads you mentioned toby, only the drivers are dangerous. Ones bendy, the other’s steep that’s all. I’ve used both many a time and not had any problems. Can’t speak for the idiots that come blasting passed me though.
Low gear and exhaust brake.
toby1234abc:
Yes.It is the “Despenapparros”.Agree on Granada to Motril hills,can overheat brakes on that long stretch.Would have thought once got a LGV licence,that Cont.Express would think thats enough without a co pilot checking you out on the way to Gibraltar.Miguels is still in operation,huge liver meal,theyhave knocked down the hotel/restaurant that was on your right,going towards Vitoria,next stop after is Miguels.What about the long hard climb before they put the tunnels in from Irun to Pamlona.Lot of trucks went over the side of the mountain in the 90``.Didnt one of Ing`s transport get killed that way,guy with long hair and glasses,was a bit mad.And a driver that was in an agents car,and a motorbike hit the side of the car and killed him.Might have been a PJK or Davies driver,in the Madrid area.Do miss clearing customs,waiting at Alverca(Smelly sewer,big mosquitoes),and Ter Tir,Porto.International restaurant opposite.Beach at weekends.
roads arn’t dangerous, just some road users. Neville ? went over on the old pamplona rd, he used to drive for John Nicholls (RIP), this was a 1st & last trip for some one else, cant remember details but a sad loss, nice guy.GBE had an incident too.
toby1234abc:
Yes.It is the “Despenapparros”.Agree on Granada to Motril hills,can overheat brakes on that long stretch.Would have thought once got a LGV licence,that Cont.Express would think thats enough without a co pilot checking you out on the way to Gibraltar.Miguels is still in operation,huge liver meal,theyhave knocked down the hotel/restaurant that was on your right,going towards Vitoria,next stop after is Miguels.What about the long hard climb before they put the tunnels in from Irun to Pamlona.Lot of trucks went over the side of the mountain in the 90``.Didnt one of Ing`s transport get killed that way,guy with long hair and glasses,was a bit mad.And a driver that was in an agents car,and a motorbike hit the side of the car and killed him.Might have been a PJK or Davies driver,in the Madrid area.Do miss clearing customs,waiting at Alverca(Smelly sewer,big mosquitoes),and Ter Tir,Porto.International restaurant opposite.Beach at weekends.
The unfortunate driver highlighted above was one of BKG,s from Soton.
george3:
There’s nothing dangerous about the two roads you mentioned toby, only the drivers are dangerous. Ones bendy, the other’s steep that’s all. I’ve used both many a time and not had any problems. Can’t speak for the idiots that come blasting passed me though.Low gear and exhaust brake.
Thank god somebody as got some sense. I go through there 4 times a week.
- Its one way traffic no chance of something coming the opposite way in the middle of the road. There as been road works just lately with two way traffic on the southbound carriageway.
- Its not that particularly steep especially with modern trucks, power steering, exhaust, brake retarder disc brakes, etc
- I myself think there should be a ban on trucks overtaking but if they do at even the sharpest bend there is still enough room for two trucks wide.
If anybody is familiar with the Woodhead or the Snake Pass in Derbyshire I wouldn’t mind betting there are more accidents on there, its two way traffic when two trucks pass on the apex of a bend you’ve got your heart in your mouth its that tight, there’s a lot more traffic with cars quiet regularly overtaking and coming face to face with on coming vehicles. Of course the Woodhead and Snake are not half as exotic as the despenaperros.
I wouldn’t worry to much about continental express because they are half way through building a nice, new, straight dual carriageway. Photos to follow when I figure out how to down load them.
Was that the john nicholls that had a myacardial infarction on the road in portugal on way to villa formosa,saw the road barrier where he went thruogh,had a few wagons on portugal.
True or otherwise, I too have heard tha same story, and it is called “Despenapparros”, La Carolina is the town just to the south of the pass.
As for it being dangerous, if treated with respect like all mountain passes and hills should be then there shoulfnt be a problem. Most accidents in there have been caused by drivers simply going too fast both up and downhill and losing it on the bends.
If the story is true regarding the said company then as Vascoingles says its “pathetic”, there are far more dangerous roads in Europe, try driving an artic around Gibraltar without squashing an impatient scooter rider or car driver for a start.
peter mill:
Was that the john nicholls that had a myacardial infarction on the road in portugal on way to villa formosa,saw the road barrier where he went thruogh,had a few wagons on portugal.
Yep Thats john quite a mild mannered bloke til he got stuck behind you!! You couldnt see him■■?!!Had some laughs with John, There s a pic onhere somewhere of his lorry, Nicost Transport. RIP
Have to agree with Yuppie,John was a smashing bloke. With reference to the GBE having a bit of trouble on Los Desprenapparros ,I cant recall anything about that,the only one I can remember was that dopey Gerrard Lissenberg loosing his brakes ( which he always drove on, no down changing or exhauster )on Migeauls and having to rest the front of his unit against the rear of another GBE trailer to slow him down, result a very bent Picasso Troner cab.
langp29:
- Its one way traffic no chance of something coming the opposite way in the middle of the road.
wasn’t always like that it used to be a lot more interesting 
Hombre:
try driving an artic around Gibraltar without squashing an impatient scooter rider or car driver for a start.
now that is real entertainment 
Gibraltar used to have boy racers in new and flash cars,young kids,bought with tobacco smuggling,guarda civil with helicopters and high powered speed boats running the gauntlet,dont seem to see that now.Compounded all the speed boats,and nicking truckers for diesel tank limits.