Franglais:
Why would anyone introduce the idea of “dry ice” when even a child can have the idea of clouds explained to them and the way steam comes out of their mouth on a cold day?
And especially why would a “fridge man” who claims expertise in cold and chill stores as well as fridge transport? Why especially them? Because Carbon Dioxide is really used in that industry and introducing points of misunderstanding defies all logic or common sense that I can see. Imagining a group of competent engineers or mechanics using such loose language is difficult.
…
P.S.
Saying you use the “least text rich format” is classic!
This is merely knit picking now for the sake of it. Sorry but at first I thought that you actually might have understood refrigeration but can now see that what you have actually done is looked everything up that I have said and simply repeated sections that give you the actual terminology and compared it to mine. I specialise in the industrial sector, refrigeration engineers are split into areas of specialism. from air conditioning & domestic to commercial & supermarkets. Then there is the medical sector, The top of the tree is Industrial which is mainly food and RDC which attached to this has refrigerated transport including shipping. Each system of these sectors use very different systems and gases, that is why you don’t get domestic air con men doing industrial and commercial doing domestic refrigerators. Only a trained Industrial engineer does industrial as it is totally different in both the equipment, pipe work, complexity and different gases. Ammonia systems that I deal with has another set of rules attached to it also.
My certifications allow me to work on all systems and that is why I understand refrigeration to such levels. It isn’t the same for other areas of refrigeration, they deal with different systems and are trained on those specifically. It comes down to licences also. Commissioning once again is totally different, once again my area. You have to test all areas of the system including the balancing of valves, compressors etc. Industrial condensers and evaps are huge in comparison to the other types and so bring their own specialties with them, you would be very surprised at how loose terms we engineers use, quite frequently we use terms of items we mix up with the wrong name, however this is because we all understand what we are talking about and so it really is irrelevant. We often use the term of dry ice because the fog is basically the same as dry ice albeit not actually in formula. You would not know the difference by looking at the fog which it is, it layers exactly the same and a visual aid of the term dry ice is easier to understand.
C02 is used in industrial refrigeration but more common in supermarket refrigeration, small industrial sections utilise C02 for the use of spirals and very rapid freezing, this is not common though. The term put the fridge in a deep freeze, any fridge man uses this term, it simply means put the fridge into a deep freeze cycle meaning turn it down to the lowest possible temp that you can achieve. You could also pick out my saying turn it down. You don’t turn industrial refrigeration up and down by a thermostat, we use pressures and adjust valves and compressors to do this, however it is a term we use even though you would pick it up, as I say it all comes down to understanding, if you understand something then you don’t question it. If you don’t understand it then you only have the correct terminology to go by which is what you have read. It still doesn’t make you understand it regardless.
My level of refrigeration is on the level I could speak with anyone and understand what they are saying without having to constantly stop them and query the terminology. A bit like an interpreter doesn’t have to repeat word by word to tell you what someone is saying. I am sure you use incorrect terminology all day long, do you say a vacuum cleaner or refer to it as a hoover. That is picking words and terms for the sake of it, which is exactly what you have done. Then you quote to me what refrigeration is as though you are some expert? My qualifications are for all to see, they are genuine as to be honest I have never known there were such things as false ones? All numbered and licensed with the correct bodies. Check out how you get a gold refrigeration card for example. You might then realise it is not an easy thing to obtain.
the maoster:
I’m sure you remember Dave the fun we used to have when purging Co2 tankers and scooping up the dry ice and slipping it into someone’s pocket or cup of tea? 
Indeed!!
I heard that people did that kind of thing. 
CO2 was an easy job, most of the time we just filled until it overflowed through the try-■■■■, then you were good to go as long as you purged your own pipework quickly.
I never did any of the cryo’s, but I wish I had though. 
As Roymondo has pointed out to you Franglais, you have just done the exact same thing as what I had done. You have used the incorrect terminology, I cannot believe it, Steam coming out of your mouth, surely not, it is arguable that you especially do indeed blow hot air out of your mouth but surely not steam? Amazing.
Roymondo:
Franglais:
Why would anyone introduce the idea of “dry ice” when even a child can have the idea of clouds explained to them and the way steam comes out of their mouth on a cold day?
But it isn’t steam that comes out of your mouth (unless you have a very strange metabolism…). It’s not dry ice, nor is it steam - I think youve just out-pedanted yourself
Sent from my VOG-L09 using Tapatalk
Are you sure?
Look at “steam” in Wikipedia.
“visible mist or aerosol…water vapour condensates”
Of you’re thinking that steam only occurs above 100deg C, maybe that’s an error?
Franglais:
Roymondo:
Franglais:
Why would anyone introduce the idea of “dry ice” when even a child can have the idea of clouds explained to them and the way steam comes out of their mouth on a cold day?
But it isn’t steam that comes out of your mouth (unless you have a very strange metabolism…). It’s not dry ice, nor is it steam - I think youve just out-pedanted yourself
Sent from my VOG-L09 using Tapatalk
Are you sure?
Look at “steam” in Wikipedia.
“visible mist or aerosol…water vapour condensates”
Of you’re thinking that steam only occurs above 100deg C, maybe that’s an error?
What’s wikipedia?? Where whatever you say comes from? Did you also get the term “condenses out” from there too, I don’t think I will bother.
Franglais:
Roymondo:
Franglais:
Why would anyone introduce the idea of “dry ice” when even a child can have the idea of clouds explained to them and the way steam comes out of their mouth on a cold day?
But it isn’t steam that comes out of your mouth (unless you have a very strange metabolism…). It’s not dry ice, nor is it steam - I think youve just out-pedanted yourself
Sent from my VOG-L09 using Tapatalk
Are you sure?
Look at “steam” in Wikipedia.
“visible mist or aerosol…water vapour condensates”
Of you’re thinking that steam only occurs above 100deg C, maybe that’s an error?
Nope its definitely not steam, it is actually condensate which is the moisture of your warm breath hitting the cold air. I wouldn’t bother with Wikipedia if I were you. It is too easy to misinterpret if you do not understand the subject. Steam is generated by heat but here is another definition for you.
It’s not "STEAM " it is water vapor. You may already know that when you breathe in, your body takes in oxygen from the air. When you breathe out, your lungs expel carbon dioxide back into the air. But the breath you breathe out contains more than just carbon dioxide. So are you still saying it is steam?
Franglais:
Roymondo:
Franglais:
Why would anyone introduce the idea of “dry ice” when even a child can have the idea of clouds explained to them and the way steam comes out of their mouth on a cold day?
But it isn’t steam that comes out of your mouth (unless you have a very strange metabolism…). It’s not dry ice, nor is it steam - I think youve just out-pedanted yourself
Sent from my VOG-L09 using Tapatalk
Are you sure?
Look at “steam” in Wikipedia.
“visible mist or aerosol…water vapour condensates”
Of you’re thinking that steam only occurs above 100deg C, maybe that’s an error?
Steam is the gas formed when water passes from the liquid to the gaseous state. At the molecular level, this is when H2O molecules manage to break free from the bonds (i.e. hydrogen bonds) keeping them together. Steam does not come out of your mouth, I thought you understood hydrogen bonding?
UKtramp:
Franglais:
Roymondo:
Franglais:
Why would anyone introduce the idea of “dry ice” when even a child can have the idea of clouds explained to them and the way steam comes out of their mouth on a cold day?
But it isn’t steam that comes out of your mouth (unless you have a very strange metabolism…). It’s not dry ice, nor is it steam - I think youve just out-pedanted yourself
Sent from my VOG-L09 using Tapatalk
Are you sure?
Look at “steam” in Wikipedia.
“visible mist or aerosol…water vapour condensates”
Of you’re thinking that steam only occurs above 100deg C, maybe that’s an error?
Steam is the gas formed when water passes from the liquid to the gaseous state. At the molecular level, this is when H2O molecules manage to break free from the bonds (i.e. hydrogen bonds) keeping them together. Steam does not come out of your mouth, I thought you understood hydrogen bonding?
Last point first,
Why do you say “steam does not come out of your mouth”?
UKtramp:
Franglais:
We’ve had hydrogen fusion, warm gases flowing through both coils, fridges put inside freezers, and now we have dry-ice inside a trailer!
This thread is wonderful!
And you are very much mistaken if you think any different. I may not have explained it all in the terms that you understand. Dry ice fog is the white like smoke that you see (in your terms). Hydrogen bonding is what happens at +4 degrees. A difficult subject matter if you are not a fridge man. It is Hot gas not warm gas that flows through the evap coils on defrost and is also known as a hot gas defrost cycle. It uses the discharge pressure from the compressor and super heats the refrigerant into a super heated vapour that we call hot gas. Fridges put inside of freezers?? Sorry you have lost me there.
A reefer is actually a heat pump as it can heat as well as cool between a range of temperatures. It uses a reversing valve to do this, That’s how you reverse which coils you want to defrost utilising the hot gas. Anything else I can help you with understanding just ask away, I can tell that you view this all as codswallop, however you do not have to get too concerned over the technical issues as you do not need to know about such things. Just set the temp and drive, I think why drivers are no longer trained in reefer operation like they used to be is that of the attitude of drivers nowadays both for the job and possible lack of understanding in the first place. It is a shame really as we did at one time have some really good fridge drivers. Ask anyone who drives a fridge if they see dry ice coming out the back doors when they open them. That is what causes your icing up problem in the reefer. I have tried to explain all of this in very simplicit terms in order to help those that would like a deeper understanding of the reefer other than just set the temp and go. I hope the majority who have read my posts have understood better and lets be honest here, you don’t get taught this stuff anymore so people like me giving out this info is probably as close as you will ever get to any official training. It is all good advice, take it or leave it.
Methinks there could be a potential opening for a ukt frigo consultancy academy in the offing.Sounds like a plan. 
UKtramp:
Franglais:
Roymondo:
Franglais:
Why would anyone introduce the idea of “dry ice” when even a child can have the idea of clouds explained to them and the way steam comes out of their mouth on a cold day?
But it isn’t steam that comes out of your mouth (unless you have a very strange metabolism…). It’s not dry ice, nor is it steam - I think youve just out-pedanted yourself
Sent from my VOG-L09 using Tapatalk
Are you sure?
Look at “steam” in Wikipedia.
“visible mist or aerosol…water vapour condensates”
Of you’re thinking that steam only occurs above 100deg C, maybe that’s an error?
Steam is the gas formed when water passes from the liquid to the gaseous state. At the molecular level, this is when H2O molecules manage to break free from the bonds (i.e. hydrogen bonds) keeping them together. Steam does not come out of your mouth, I thought you understood hydrogen bonding?
Secondly,
What has hydrogen molecular bonding to do with a liquid’ s molecules achieving sufficient kinetic energy to become a gas?
IE what has “Hydrogen bonding” to do with anything here?
Franglais:
But it isn’t steam that comes out of your mouth (unless you have a very strange metabolism…). It’s not dry ice, nor is it steam - I think youve just out
What has hydrogen molecular bonding to do with a liquid’ s molecules achieving sufficient kinetic energy to become a gas?
IE what has “Hydrogen bonding” to do with anything here?
tlv.com/global/UK/steam-the … steam.html take a read here, you may find out that you actually are not the expert that you profess. You started so I will finish. It is just blatantly obvious to me but if you need to read it up, there is the link for you. Crack on drive. You may have to read up on what I have been talking about but mine comes from knowledge within. Don’t sound so surprised that you may have got something wrong, you have never heard of Hydrogen bonding before I brought it up, you cannot become an expert by merely reading a few lines from Wikipedia. As I stated before it is very easy be an expert so long as you have an internet connection.
Don’t bother answering back as I cannot now believe you actually understand refrigeration at all. You had me fooled for a brief moment but then quickly realised you were merely repeating what you have read. You are the one quoting steam coming out of your mouth and I knew full well it isn’t steam but you have keep going and going. If I were you I would report me for impersonating a refrigeration engineer. I wouldn’t bother though, as you would be wrong again.
UKtramp:
dieseldog999:
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
your predictable reply really only confirms that you have absolutely no comprehension whatsoever of normal tactics to lift and deliver a frozen load in a trailer with a dodgy fridge motor.
as per usual all your going to do now is defend by attacking,deny,ignore,and bring in the jake type clones in a vain attempt to waffle through another load of pish until once again the inevitable lock comes along.
isnt it funny how all the posts regarding how you were proved to be a fraud and ousted several times seem to be ignored?
your just flogging another dead horse and yet again making a bigger fool of yourself,but dream on regardless.
Yes in you’re real world of driving substandard equipment and unlicensed food carriers is miles away from my world, you are right there. I wouldn’t lower myself to such antics. If I were paid 3 times as much as what I am paid now I wouldn’t be interested. But then I am more qualified and professional to make that decision than having to sink to such depths. You’re examples given are an absolute disgrace and disgusting to even consider. You must be very desperate for work is all that I can say. Now I am going to pop you on ignore as I find you the lowest of the low, I do not or cannot accept what you have stated goes on and certainly if it did would need be stamped out very quickly. I will be reporting you’re antics and comments in hoping that you are traced and prosecuted for these deliberate actions. You really are a disgrace.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
well seeing as these practices have been happening as long as fridge trailers were invented for road haulage and it appears to be outside of your remit to comprehend,then please do whatever you like,and along those lines il take it as a win win for me…though no doubt you wont be able to reply to this as im now on your ignore list?? ( apparently)… 
I think we can call it game, set and match to me Franglais. I was playing with you nicely and like a cat patting a mouse backwards and forwards without completely killing it. I think it is evident that whilst I was genuinely trying to help people out on here with educated and professional advice, you sort of set yourself up for me. I won’t apologise for this as I didn’t have to do too much really as when you know you’re stuff on a subject, the person who doesn’t really know it just stands out like a sore thumb. Bit of a life lesson learnt here, don’t run you’re mouth off without any real knowledge, Wikipedia doesn’t have all of the answers as you have clearly found out, there is no substitute for actual knowledge gained through the correct training from the people that know. That is what I gave out on here, good solid advice on how to correctly defrost and pull a reefer to get the least problems. See ya.
UKtramp:
Franglais:
But it isn’t steam that comes out of your mouth (unless you have a very strange metabolism…). It’s not dry ice, nor is it steam - I think youve just out
What has hydrogen molecular bonding to do with a liquid’ s molecules achieving sufficient kinetic energy to become a gas?
IE what has “Hydrogen bonding” to do with anything here?
tlv.com/global/UK/steam-the … steam.html take a read here, you may find out that you actually are not the expert that you profess. You started so I will finish. It is just blatantly obvious to me but if you need to read it up, there is the link for you. Crack on drive. You may have to read up on what I have been talking about but mine comes from knowledge within. Don’t sound so surprised that you may have got something wrong, you have never heard of Hydrogen bonding before I brought it up, you cannot become an expert by merely reading a few lines from Wikipedia. As I stated before it is very easy be an expert so long as you have an internet connection.
Don’t bother answering back as I cannot now believe you actually understand refrigeration at all. You had me fooled for a brief moment but then quickly realised you were merely repeating what you have read. You are the one quoting steam coming out of your mouth and I knew full well it isn’t steam but you have keep going and going. If I were you I would report me for impersonating a refrigeration engineer. I wouldn’t bother though, as you would be wrong again.
Interesting link. Thanks.
I didn’t find it that helpful of itself, but it did spur me to look further.
UKtramp:
I think we can call it game, set and match to me Franglais. I was playing with you nicely and like a cat patting a mouse backwards and forwards without completely killing it. I think it is evident that whilst I was genuinely trying to help people out on here with educated and professional advice, you sort of set yourself up for me. I won’t apologise for this as I didn’t have to do too much really as when you know you’re stuff on a subject, the person who doesn’t really know it just stands out like a sore thumb. Bit of a life lesson learnt here, don’t run you’re mouth off without any real knowledge, Wikipedia doesn’t have all of the answers as you have clearly found out, there is no substitute for actual knowledge gained through the correct training from the people that know. That is what I gave out on here, good solid advice on how to correctly defrost and pull a reefer to get the least problems. See ya.
I’m glad my ignorance of, and questioning you about hydrogen bonding has given your ego such a boost. Must be nice for you to take such joy in putting someone down.
.
Now if you could please explain the difference between water vapour and steam, you could feel smart and superior all over again!
.
UKtramp:
eurotrans:
put the fridge on defrost when fully loaded because I was told that running it whilst loading in hot weather caused a lot of condensation in and around the freezer unit and this could freeze up causing the rear pallets to cook due to having no airflow and the front ones to be too cold
Frost will develop on the condenser coils when loading in the summer, they should not ice up enough to stop airflow though unless you are at minus temps. Not a great idea to put a fridge on defrost when fully loaded unless you have a serious problem. Under normal circumstances you should only ever defrost the reefer before or after the load.
Just to clarify I’m not a highly qualified refrigeration engineer nor did I ever have a load of fruit rejected but we used to have the pleasure of sitting in a field all day in 90 degree heat while most of our load was still hanging on the vines. During that day we had to run the fridge but probably opened the doors 30 or 40 times hence the condensation,as I said I never lost a load nor did I have any problems with the fridge unit so i don’t see why I shouldn’t have done a manual defrost
Although I know nothing about fridges from what I can deduce is that some don’t like being told they are wrong. They have been doing it a certain way for years and it worked so it must be right.
Nobody can tell them how to suggest a better way or how to improve. Seen it now and then when training older experienced drivers.
It can be a typical human trait with some and is blatantly obvious with bad driving also. Been doing it for years, never has an accident so I must be good. Then one day it all goes wrong.
Some seem to learn the hard way.
eurotrans:
Just to clarify I’m not a highly qualified refrigeration engineer nor did I ever have a load of fruit rejected but we used to have the pleasure of sitting in a field all day in 90 degree heat while most of our load was still hanging on the vines. During that day we had to run the fridge but probably opened the doors 30 or 40 times hence the condensation,as I said I never lost a load nor did I have any problems with the fridge unit so i don’t see why I shouldn’t have done a manual defrost
As I stated, there is a time and a place for doing a manual defrost, they are not to be done in certain circumstances as per my example. The situation that you are describing lends the phrase of the right time and the right place. Providing that your doors are closed on the reefer then if you are seeing a temperature issue in the field through icing of the coils, a manual defrost may well be advantageous to do. If you was not seeing any temperature issues then a defrost could be creating more of a problem . All depends on outside temp (when you open the doors) and the inside temp and your set point. Each introduces it’s own problems and a balancing act is required. One thing to realise is that you can create more of a problem by having too many defrosts, not enough and same again, under normal circumstances the auto defrost cycles will be enough but this isn’t a one size fits all.
Franglais:
UKtramp:
I think we can call it game, set and match to me Franglais. I was playing with you nicely and like a cat patting a mouse backwards and forwards without completely killing it. I think it is evident that whilst I was genuinely trying to help people out on here with educated and professional advice, you sort of set yourself up for me. I won’t apologise for this as I didn’t have to do too much really as when you know you’re stuff on a subject, the person who doesn’t really know it just stands out like a sore thumb. Bit of a life lesson learnt here, don’t run you’re mouth off without any real knowledge, Wikipedia doesn’t have all of the answers as you have clearly found out, there is no substitute for actual knowledge gained through the correct training from the people that know. That is what I gave out on here, good solid advice on how to correctly defrost and pull a reefer to get the least problems. See ya.
I’m glad my ignorance of, and questioning you about hydrogen bonding has given your ego such a boost. Must be nice for you to take such joy in putting someone down.
.
Now if you could please explain the difference between water vapour and steam, you could feel smart and superior all over again!
.
No pleasure taken from pulling anyone down. I don’t do that. Yes I could very easily explain to you the difference between water vapour and steam, but lets not go there again, cannot take another 10 pages of explanation for you to analyse and question. In a nutshell and really quick for you, the big difference is temperature. I don’t mind any questioning if it is genuine questioning, but when someone gives you an answer either accept it or go find out yourself before telling them that they are wrong. Hence if I were now to give you the difference between water vapour and steam, no doubt you would be arguing with me that I am wrong, btw it is such an easy question that you are asking.
jakethesnake:
Although I know nothing about fridges from what I can deduce is that some don’t like being told they are wrong. They have been doing it a certain way for years and it worked so it must be right.
Nobody can tell them how to suggest a better way or how to improve. Seen it now and then when training older experienced drivers.
It can be a typical human trait with some and is blatantly obvious with bad driving also. Been doing it for years, never has an accident so I must be good. Then one day it all goes wrong.
Some seem to learn the hard way.
Nail on the head there Jake. I gave up teaching because you get this all of the time, even with 18 yr olds too. It is as you say like a personal thing to some who just will not be told. I am now writing rather than teaching, as anyone who buys it either takes it for gospel or argues with others about it. To be fair though, in my industry I am so well known that I don’t get that much questioning.