AndieHyde:
Sorry, but which coils?
Our man was clearly talking about the inside of the trailer which wouldn’t be the condenser but that other major component that even a mere mortal can differentiate between.
Evidently not!!!
UKtramp:
Thats exactly why you don’t run a manual defrost!!!
Then why…
Is there a manual defrost button fitted on the control panel in the first place?
Please don’t say it’s only for fitters. If that were the case it would be accessed using codes and reasonably driver proof.
I could childishly put four exclamation marks here.
yourhavingalarf:
UKtramp:
Thats exactly why you don’t run a manual defrost!!!Then why…
Is there a manual defrost button fitted on the control panel in the first place?
Please don’t say it’s only for fitters. If that were the case it would be accessed using codes and reasonably driver proof.
I could childishly put four exclamation marks here.
Your load is temperature controlled, by using a MANUAL defrost cycle which takes around 45 mins to complete will blow warm air through the trailer. and effect the trailer temperature. Along with this warm air will be a high content of water vapour which once the trailer goes back into refrigeration mode will freeze up and form ice. If an automatic defrost then takes place because the sensors are detecting ice forming it will go into a defrost a second time giving a further 45 mins of warming the trailer again thus affecting the temperature graphs from the stored data which would show a temperature spike twice.
There are so many other reasons why you should not initiate a manual defrost just for the sake of it, it would take up way too many lines to write. Not trying to be clever over this like some snide replies. There are much better ways of avoiding ice build up whilst loading in the first place, a manual defrost is really a last resort. Not saying it shouldn’t be performed in some circumstances but certainly not as a routine for loading. The prevention is far better than the cure, hence anyone who drives reefers should in my opinion undertake training on temperature control. This is very evident by some of the questions and replies, Your safest bet is to just check your temp gauges regularly and leave the unit too look after the defrost cycles.
By interfering with the defrost cycles and not knowing what you are doing by initiating one without proper advice you are risking the load. As I say there is a procedure for loading and unloading of temperature controlled goods, I know this better than most because I am a fridge engineer to begin with and understand these cycles and problems. I used to train reefer drivers on the various methods of avoiding manual defrosting, this practice has sadly been dropped from most firms because of cost issues and the dumbing down of the job, at one time a reefer driver was trained and this should be brought back, possibly on the cpc as a module would be a very good step forward. Most transport companies TM also have no idea of refrigeration and the critical control of these goods, it is left up to the drivers like you with no real knowledge of refrigeration and the transportation of these goods and there is a lot of hear say involved, someone tells you to do something so you just do it without reason. Understandable as I say, not patronising anyone for it as it is probably the way it is nowadays. Minimum training to do the job to achieve a minimum cost.
I am not here to train you or tell you anything but I am telling you that there are much better ways to avoid the manual defrost button being pressed. Already I seem to have hijacked this thread and answered a lot of questions, if you read my replies you will see that I am only trying to help and not actually argue or patronise anyone. Just point out facts and try to disperse any rumours or misinformation circulating amongst drivers with regards temp transport. My expertise is RDC large complex refrigeration, I sit on many crises teams for such centers so I know my stuff when it comes to food and refrigeration.
Ask nicely and I will help you out with any questions you may have, act like a prat and I will not. Why should I pass my knowledge on too anyone who is simply not willing to listen or learn, makes no difference to me if anyone gains additional and factual knowledge or just continues to have their own opinion and way of doing things. This thread is not mine, I didn’t start it so I think it only right that if you have any specific question to start a new thread to ask on that, I will answer any sensible question and give you valuable advice which will be factual. If you would like proof to see if I am an industrial refrigeration engineer who specialises in this field, I can even supply that. Don’t think I can be fairer than that.
…
UKtramp:
AndieHyde:
Sorry, but which coils?
Our man was clearly talking about the inside of the trailer which wouldn’t be the condenser but that other major component that even a mere mortal can differentiate between.Evidently not!!!
No, evidently not at all.
As someone who claims to have written the book on refrigeration I am holding you to a higher scrutiny.
So condenser coil outside of the insulated space.
Evaporator on the inside of insulated space.
Not only its position in the system should tell you what it is called but the advanced understanding of how it achieves its function, evaporation being fundamentally the principle of closed loop refrigeration.
As I read eurotrans comment of being inside the trailer and you seemingly agreeing with that, the only time I have seen a condenser ice up is when there was a fault with that particular system.
Evaps, however I have seen plenty freeze up, usually because of a defective defrost cycle or production personal introducing too much water into the insulated space.
So no more with the flippant comments. Present you evidence.
AndieHyde:
I am holding you to a higher scrutiny.
Really, You’re holding me to a higher scrutiny? You’re higher than me, then you explain it yourself, You tell us all why you feel the need to initiate a manual drefrost, what are your reasons for doing so and what problems are you going to introduce by doing so. You can do a much better job of it I am sure.
AndieHyde:
UKtramp:
AndieHyde:
Sorry, but which coils?
Our man was clearly talking about the inside of the trailer which wouldn’t be the condenser but that other major component that even a mere mortal can differentiate between.Evidently not!!!
No, evidently not at all.
As someone who claims to have written the book on refrigeration I am holding you to a higher scrutiny.So condenser coil outside of the insulated space.
Evaporator on the inside of insulated space.Not only its position in the system should tell you what it is called but the advanced understanding of how it achieves its function, evaporation being fundamentally the principle of closed loop refrigeration.
As I read eurotrans comment of being inside the trailer and you seemingly agreeing with that, the only time I have seen a condenser ice up is when there was a fault with that particular system.
Evaps, however I have seen plenty freeze up, usually because of a defective defrost cycle or production personal introducing too much water into the insulated space.So no more with the flippant comments. Present you evidence.
Just for the record and to clear up any confusion to you Andy, the evaps icing is more of a problem in the summer months, in the winter time then the problem reverses to the condenser coils. Either of the coils icing will produce the same effect, the effect you will see first is temperature issues. The defrost cycle of hot gas obviously runs through both sets of coils regardless. We see the effect of condenser coils icing quite regular throughout the winter but even in the summer it an be a problem and especially so if the condenser is not kept clean.
Just making a…
A post lunch G&T.
Which I’m gonna quaff in the garden on this glorious sunny day (furlough inc).
As Arnie said once, I’ll be back.
I’m not trying…
To be clever, I’d just like an answer as to why reefer manufacturers fit a clearly marked defrost button to activate defrosts on command when, according to you in so many words, you don’t ever need to manual defrost.
It won’t take up many lines to write the answer if you put the words ‘to be fair Mr Larf, I don’t know why they put a defrost button on the control panel’.
UKtramp:
AndieHyde:
I am holding you to a higher scrutiny.Really, You’re holding me to a higher scrutiny? You’re higher than me, then you explain it yourself, You tell us all why you feel the need to initiate a manual drefrost, what are your reasons for doing so and what problems are you going to introduce by doing so. You can do a much better job of it I am sure.
Spent the majority of my truck driving career doing fridges and it’s safe to say I don’t think I have ever done a manual defrost. I know you can and how just never have or see any reason why anyone would. Switch fridge on, set temp, set constant or stop start according to customer instructions and leave the ■■■■ thing alone to do what it does has always been my tactic
yourhavingalarf:
I’m not trying…To be clever, I’d just like an answer as to why reefer manufacturers fit a clearly marked defrost button to activate defrosts on command when, according to you in so many words, you don’t ever need to manual defrost.
It won’t take up many lines to write the answer if you put the words ‘to be fair Mr Larf, I don’t know why they put a defrost button on the control panel’.
The reason for putting the option for you to initiate a manual defrost is to enable you to do one when it is necessary of course. If you read my post through then you will clearly see that in some instances this can be a very useful thing to do. It is not to be used under normal circumstances, the auto defrost will take care of that. The auto defrost frequency need to be restricted to the minimum amount of times to happen, therefore by adding manual defrosts to the already scheduled defrosts whenever the unit is full and loaded increases the temperatures of both the product and trailer unnecessarily. I have already explained all of this in previous posts. If you want to keep doing manual defrosts then go ahead. Someone will pick this up somewhere along the temp trail and ask questions as to whether there a problem somewhere in the refrigeration unit or are the door seals perished etc, etc. If you follow a proper procedure for transporting refrigerated goods then you will find that you wouldn’t really ever need to initiate a manual defrost in the first place. It is either a problem with the reefer or just user error that causes ice issues. If you are finding yourself having to initiate manual defrosts regularly then something is clearly wrong with one or the other. A good fridge driver will probably never have done one. FACT.
switchlogic:
Spent the majority of my truck driving career doing fridges and it’s safe to say I don’t think I have ever done a manual defrost. I know you can and how just never have or see any reason why anyone would. Switch fridge on, set temp, set constant or stop start according to customer instructions and leave the ■■■■ thing alone to do what it does has always been my tactic
You are obviously an experienced fridge driver that knows what he is doing, that is evident in your comment and exactly my point. Drivers who drive fridge units should be better trained to know how to avoid icing and not add to the existing defrost cycles which are set into the unit.
Spent the majority of my truck driving career doing fridges and it’s safe to say I don’t think I have ever done a manual defrost. I know you can and how just never have or see any reason why anyone would. Switch fridge on, set temp, set constant or stop start according to customer instructions and leave the ■■■■ thing alone to do what it does has always been my tactic
Nice to hear someone that knows what they are talking about.^^^^^^^
How do you have the patience UKT?
UKtramp:
AndieHyde:
UKtramp:
AndieHyde:
Sorry, but which coils?
Our man was clearly talking about the inside of the trailer which wouldn’t be the condenser but that other major component that even a mere mortal can differentiate between.Evidently not!!!
No, evidently not at all.
As someone who claims to have written the book on refrigeration I am holding you to a higher scrutiny.So condenser coil outside of the insulated space.
Evaporator on the inside of insulated space.Not only its position in the system should tell you what it is called but the advanced understanding of how it achieves its function, evaporation being fundamentally the principle of closed loop refrigeration.
As I read eurotrans comment of being inside the trailer and you seemingly agreeing with that, the only time I have seen a condenser ice up is when there was a fault with that particular system.
Evaps, however I have seen plenty freeze up, usually because of a defective defrost cycle or production personal introducing too much water into the insulated space.So no more with the flippant comments. Present you evidence.
Just for the record and to clear up any confusion to you Andy, the evaps icing is more of a problem in the summer months, in the winter time then the problem reverses to the condenser coils. Either of the coils icing will produce the same effect, the effect you will see first is temperature issues. The defrost cycle of hot gas obviously runs through both sets of coils regardless. We see the effect of condenser coils icing quite regular throughout the winter but even in the summer it an be a problem and especially so if the condenser is not kept clean.
“The defrost cycle of hot gas obviously runs through both sets of coils regardless.”
Fascinating stuff…
jakethesnake:
Spent the majority of my truck driving career doing fridges and it’s safe to say I don’t think I have ever done a manual defrost. I know you can and how just never have or see any reason why anyone would. Switch fridge on, set temp, set constant or stop start according to customer instructions and leave the ■■■■ thing alone to do what it does has always been my tacticNice to hear someone that knows what they are talking about.^^^^^^^
How do you have the patience UKT?
My point of a good fridge driver will never need to do manual defrosts in the first place, if you are doing manual defrosts regularly then either the unit has a fault or the driver is not adequately trained to be towing a reefer. the driver should check and report only. I have tried so hard to get this point across but as you can clearly read from certain members, it is difficult to drive this point home. You don’t get tanker drivers or car transport drivers just hopping into the cab and driving off with no training, at least I would hope not, but reefers seem to be an exception to training now. My opinion is drivers should not be allowed to tow reefers without knowing something about temperature control.
Franglais:
“The defrost cycle of hot gas obviously runs through both sets of coils regardless.”
Fascinating stuff…
Yes it is easily done, just reverse from heat to cool once again a good driver knows this trick, you don’t need to be an engineer to do this. During winter months we often defrost coils with either hot gas or by putting the fridge unit into a deep freeze. This will send super heated gas through the condenser coils.
Iv been using fridges now for 4 years, can honestly ssy nothing has frozen in the trailer.
We have 2 compartments, +3 and -25. Quite often these do a d.f by themselves i have found .
Been interesting reading some of stuff on here, learn somthing everyday 
UKtramp:
jakethesnake:
Spent the majority of my truck driving career doing fridges and it’s safe to say I don’t think I have ever done a manual defrost. I know you can and how just never have or see any reason why anyone would. Switch fridge on, set temp, set constant or stop start according to customer instructions and leave the ■■■■ thing alone to do what it does has always been my tacticNice to hear someone that knows what they are talking about.^^^^^^^
How do you have the patience UKT?
My point of a good fridge driver will never need to do manual defrosts in the first place, if you are doing manual defrosts regularly then either the unit has a fault or the driver is not adequately trained to be towing a reefer. the driver should check and report only. I have tried so hard to get this point across but as you can clearly read from certain members, it is difficult to drive this point home. You don’t get tanker drivers or car transport drivers just hopping into the cab and driving off with no training, at least I would hope not, but reefers seem to be an exception to training now. My opinion is drivers should not be allowed to tow reefers without knowing something about temperature control.
I agree completely re training. It’s frankly insane that drivers can just hitch up and go with no training or experience. I’ve lost count of how many times a driver has asked me advice on how to work the fridge they are pulling. Absolutely ridiculous when you think of how important what they carry and it’s condition is, I.e food. I’ve NEVER been asked if I know how work a fridge before I’m asked to pull one and only know from my childhood going with Dad and him showing me how
Where did I say…
I press the defrost button?
I load set the temp according to what my gaffer wants and go and do the job. A well maintained reefer will defrost as and when required.
After driving reefers all over Europe carrying chill, frozen, hot and medical supplies, I’ve had no rejections on temperature.
I know what I’m doing.
I can’t be bothered to trawl through your endless drivel any longer. You contradict yourself as usual like you always do and then wonder why people call you out. Also I find it hard to have any real interest when the person doing the typing has been caught out here twice as a liar.
Putting the word FACT at the end of things doesn’t make it a fact.
yourhavingalarf:
Where did I say…I press the defrost button?
I load set the temp according to what my gaffer wants and go and do the job. A well maintained reefer will defrost as and when required.
After driving reefers all over Europe carrying chill, frozen, hot and medical supplies, I’ve had no rejections on temperature.
I know what I’m doing.
I can’t be bothered to trawl through your endless drivel any longer. You contradict yourself as usual like you always do and then wonder why people call you out. Also I find it hard to have any real interest when the person doing the typing has been caught out here twice as a liar.
Putting the word FACT at the end of things doesn’t make it a fact.
Bizarre to say the least. I think your average person who have followed these posts could certainly deduce that you are the opposite of what you say, I don’t think you have actually driven with a reefer all over Europe or you would not be initialising defrosts and telling others that if you set the temp to +4 deg then the air blows out at +4 deg. I am sorry but you clearly do not know anything about refrigerated transport. You have never received any training on the subject yet you state here that you know what you’re doing? Evidently not. Good day to you.