If i was to buy an old unit purely to take to shows, would i be able to tax it private / light goods, if the fifth wheel was removed. Also what would be the position with getting it plated, would it still have to go to a ministry test centre, or would it come under MOT. Also what would be the position with insurance, would a classic insurance company cover it ?
Just a dream at the moment, but i would just like your views on it and if anybody has done this.
Many thanks
hi woodyr
i have had several tractor units that i have restored and used on road runs and shows.in a nut shell you can tax them private/hgv,they need a full mot/plating,though there are some exemptions you can use.with regard to insurance there are several out there that will give fully comprehensive cover for a year depending on certain conditions for around £100-£150.good luck.
regards andrew
Hi Andrew, Thank you for your reply. Not sure yet what unit i would buy, where is the best place to look, i look on ebay, but they don’t tend to have older ones on there.
Also can you give me any details of insurance companies, that would cover it please.
Many thanks
hi,classic and vintage commercials magazine is as good a place to start as any.you will also find the insurers advertise in there.towergate,nfu and footman james are just three insurers who could help you.it’s all a fairly simple process.
regards andrew
WOODY R:
If i was to buy an old unit purely to take to shows, would i be able to tax it private / light goods, if the fifth wheel was removed. Also what would be the position with getting it plated, would it still have to go to a ministry test centre, or would it come under MOT. Also what would be the position with insurance, would a classic insurance company cover it ?Just a dream at the moment, but i would just like your views on it and if anybody has done this.
Many thanks
I have had several too (and am still involved) - no need to mess around removing turntables. MOT as per normal, for both unit and trailer, unless the vehicle was registered before 1/1/1960, in which case it is exempt provided it is used unladen. Historic vehicle tax (i.e. free!) applies the same as cars, again, provided it is used unladen. If used to carry anything non-commercially, this is allowable, but you must tax at PLG.
As Pete359 says, adverts in C&VC, but also look in Heritage Commercials. I currently have a pair of Atkinson tractors insured with NFU Mutual.
WOODY R:
if the fifth wheel was removed.
I see this old MYTH has come back again !!
Good luck with your plan 
ROG:
WOODY R:
if the fifth wheel was removed.I see this old MYTH has come back again !!
But quickly dispelled 
ROG:
WOODY R:
if the fifth wheel was removed.I see this old MYTH has come back again !!
Good luck with your plan
It’s a myth in the context of this thread Rog but there just might be some older drivers on here who can remember when it was ok to drive a 38 tonne wagon and drag on a class 3 licence using a 2 axle rigid pulling a 3 axle trailer but you could only drive an artic tractor unit running solo on a class 1 unless you took the fifth wheel off.
Thank you for all your replies, some helpful and some confusing. Could someone please explain to me what the MYTH is regarding removing the fifth wheel. The only reason i thought that this would need to be done, was for the purpose of the tax and insurance. I was under the impression that if the fifth wheel was still in place, then it would still come into the category of being a goods vehicle, therefor would still have to be taxed and insured and ministry plated as a goods vehicle and not for private use. I had driven artic’s for over twenty five years.
WOODY R:
Thank you for all your replies, some helpful and some confusing. Could someone please explain to me what the MYTH is regarding removing the fifth wheel. The only reason i thought that this would need to be done, was for the purpose of the tax and insurance. I was under the impression that if the fifth wheel was still in place, then it would still come into the category of being a goods vehicle, therefor would still have to be taxed and insured and ministry plated as a goods vehicle and not for private use. I had driven artic’s for over twenty five years.
There’s an ongoing discussion on here which needs some clarification of the old HGV licencing regs and so far we have’nt been able to find the original wording in which as I remember it an artic tractor unit was considered an artic from the point of view of the HGV licencing conditions because the fifth wheel rendered it designed and constructed to be used as an articulated vehicle regardless of wether it was running with a semi trailer coupled up or not.It therefore needed a class 1 to drive it.Rog and many others seem to be under the impression that the regs then were as they are today in which it would only have needed a class 1 licence to drive it if it’s actually running with a semi trailer coupled up.That’s what the argument concerning the myth or otherwise is all about in that context.However there’s no doubt that under the old HGV licence regs that a rigid could be driven with a drawbar trailer with just the category of licence required for the rigid prime mover of the outfit.Which meant that a class 3 could be used to drive a 38 tonne drawbar outfit if the if the prime mover was a 4 wheeler.But a class 2 would have been needed for a 6 wheeler+ prime mover drawbar outfit.But an artic tractor unit needed a class 1 licence to drive it wether it was running solo or not??.But a fifth wheel would’nt make any difference as to wether it’s considered a ‘goods vehicle’ or not as even an artic outfit with a trailer coupled up can be used without carrying any load.The ‘myth’ is an old HGV driving licence question.The modern day C+E licence category has removed most of the confusion concerning artic and rigid/drawbar licence entitlement regs.
Carryfast, Thank you very much for your detailed explanation, i am sorry if i have fueled any on going arguments/ debates, i also realise it is not straight forward to get an answer from the DVLA.
So bottom line is, i can still tax and insure it for private use with the fifth wheel still in situ.
Many thanks for your help
WOODY R:
Carryfast, Thank you very much for your detailed explanation, i am sorry if i have fueled any on going arguments/ debates, i also realise it is not straight forward to get an answer from the DVLA.
So bottom line is, i can still tax and insure it for private use with the fifth wheel still in situ.Many thanks for your help
I queried this with the D.V.L.A about 18 month’s ago and that is exactly what they told me
in the last 13 years i have owned,fully restored and rallied all over the uk and into france and belguim:
1.1974 a series erf
2.1974 volvo f88
3.1989 volvo f16
4.1983 peterbilt 359
all of these trucks mostly pulling trailers with sheeted dumy loads,so obviously with the fifth wheel attached.fully legal
regards andrew
There was a story going around in the early 70’s that you could drive a unit without a turntable on a car licence. This was in the days before DVLC as it started out.
In 2002 I bought a Bedford YMT 57 seat coach to take my class d test. I have kept it for shows etc. and eventual restoration to its original livery etc.
When I bought it I went to the local DVLA and taxed it as PLG and awaited the arrival of the V5.
After six weeks I contacted DVLA and spent the next two months convincing their staff that it was not an HGV and should not be taxed as such.
Eventually and I think reluctantly they conceded that it was a PLG.
The problem with them is, that they are always right, even when they are wrong, as in disputing what is written in their own publications. They will also argue about information given to you by their local offices.
The answer is just keep on till you get what you want.
Woody, there are plenty of units for sale in Classic and Commercial Vehicle mag, just depends what breed you prefer.
Insurance wise, NFU do a policy for any driver over £25 fully comp with £5 million publicliability for shows too for about £85.
If you want an Idea of cost you could get an old leyland or ERF for around £2500 - £3000 for one in reasonable nick, plus your £165 private HGV tax and £85 for your insurance.
Not that expensive really, just need plenty of space if like me you are keeping it at home!
Mike
Thank you all again, for your very helpful and encouraging replies. I have ordered classic commercial and heritage commercial mags, to see what is available, then look for somewhere to store it, but will not rush into buying one, will look at several first, to see what is good and what is bad, as i would think most older ones will be suffering from the dreaded brown stuff.
WOODY R:
Thank you all again, for your very helpful and encouraging replies. I have ordered classic commercial and heritage commercial mags, to see what is available, then look for somewhere to store it, but will not rush into buying one, will look at several first, to see what is good and what is bad, as i would think most older ones will be suffering from the dreaded brown stuff.
When I bought my coach I went through the various magazines and found nothing I liked.
Then one day I was talking to a fellow coach owner who suggested that as a local operator had lost some school contracts they might be reducing their fleet. I contacted them and bought one of their older coaches, some were £45000, I paid £500 for mine
If you are an active driver and visiting RDC’s etc ask other drivers if their company has any redundant vehicles in their yard, you never know what’s lurking about. Also the scrappage scheme hasn’t arrived for LGV’s.
Good luck with your search
Waddy, Thank you for your advice. It looks like you got a good buy then £500 sounds like a good result.
One other problem i have just thought of, is the LEZ, as i live within the area that this will affect. Will this only affect working vehicles, or will it affect privately owned vehicles, as if this is the case it would not be a viable proposition to have a vehicle in which i will be fined every time i go into the LEZ. I would imagine the cost to have the vehicle converted would be astronomical. After thinking about this, it might seem my dream is not a good idea after all.
Hi Woody Yes that lez will affect you as it bans my campervan in 2012 and thats only 6 years old.As I go to the inlaws at south woodham but drive around while iam down visiting.I will not be able to nip through Blackwall tunnel to miss the hold ups at the Q E 2 Bridge going to Dover if its windy.Maybe if your truck was pre 1960 its ok. A friend of mine from Chatam cannot go to Scania agent on the old A13 with his B reg V8 143.Unless you fit that gaget on the exhaust.
John.