OK - I have had a quick look through some of the info on this site to try and answer this for myself. But theres LOADS of stuff thats just way too distracting and I kep getting sidetracked by gearbox diagrams and other goodies
So, I’ll ask here. Sorry if this has been covered before guys.
I work for an agency doing double manned runs. I have been told by a number of the other ‘more experienced’ drivers that so long as we start our drive together within an hour of each other (which we would always do) we can drive as follows:
Is this correct. It’s just that I can’t find out much in the way of concrete facts about rest/breaks etc as everyone seems to give a different answer to the same question. And I am kacking myself every time I drive past a VOSA checkpoint area. At the same time I don’t want to look like a numpty by forcing another driver to take a 45 minute break if it’s not necessary. If that makes sense
The one who is not driving can take a break whilst in the passenger seat whilst the other is driving so looking at that it seems ok if the one not driving recorded a break.
I’m surprised that you actually did it that way - I would have switched drivers every 2 hours or less - that waty the concentration level would be increased.
That is a 21 hour day - not too clued up on double manning hours regs
I’m sure either tachograph, coffeeholic or geebee45, who are the site GURUs on this, will be along soon to give you the definitive answer
I have been double manning for last 18 months until recently. After much the same problem with you we actually contact VOS for the answer which was:
Driver one 4.5
Driver two 4.5
Driver one 4.5
Driver two 4.5
Driver One 1
Driver two 1
Total 20 hous driving, it is also maximun shift allowed and the 8 hour rest period in 30 hours has been upped to 9 hours daily reast period in 30 hours the same as one manning(first minute of 30 hour period starts the second your tacho started).
This is preseuming that you are driving non stop or you run out the maximun shift which together is 20 hours(10 a man)
Your break on a digital tacho graph is counted automatically as POA and it is recognised by VOSA so if and when they ever pulled you up it would not be held against you as it is their own rules that state the first 45 of double manning POA for driver card two will automatically be break and if on a paper chart you will be able to record break by hitting the buttons anyway.
Hope this was clear enough, we were also told many contradictiry pieces of info but this is from the horses mouth so Ihoped it has helped
I work national multi-drop (7-12 drops) delivery for a high street clothing chain. So there’s also 5-20 minutes at each stop too. The hours I quoted were hypothetical as the longest run is in the region of 17.5 hours.
I work national multi-drop (7-12 drops) delivery for a high street clothing chain. So there’s also 5-20 minutes at each stop too. The hours I quoted were hypothetical as the longest run is in the region of 17.5 hours.
We used to run to Aberdeen and Inverness from Nottingham and Aberdeen alone was 800+ mile round trip! If we were doing that in a day plus install jobs on site we could easily run to 20 hours total shift time.
OllieNotts:
Total 20 hous driving, it is also maximun shift allowed
Not correct, maximum shift is 21 hours, as you yourself point out in the next bit
OllieNotts:
and the 8 hour rest period in 30 hours has been upped to 9 hours daily reast period in 30 hours
30 hours - 9 hours rest = 21 hours maximum working time.
OllieNotts:
Hope this was clear enough, we were also told many contradictiry pieces of info but this is from the horses mouth so Ihoped it has helped
If that was from the horses mouth then that horse needs a trip to the glue factory as it is wrong. Get a new horse.
OllieNotts:
…and if on a paper chart you will be able to record break by hitting the buttons anyway.
Not on all analogue tachos, on some you cannot select rest for the second driver while the vehicle is moving so the same assumption regarding the first 45 minutes of POA will apply.
7point5:
I have been told by a number of the other ‘more experienced’ drivers that so long as we start our drive together within an hour of each other (which we would always do) we can drive as follows:
That is legal, but if you want to get finished a bit quicker, the 1 hour break you both take at the same time isn’t required. One driver is taking his legally required break while the other is driving.
Well coffee holic fair points you’ve made. But it does wind me up as what is the point in asking people in authority if they tell us wrong? Unless you have it wrong? Maybe you can find a source to back it up with? And I am not accusing you of lying by the way
OllieNotts:
Well coffee holic fair points you’ve made. But it does wind me up as what is the point in asking people in authority if they tell us wrong? Unless you have it wrong? Maybe you can find a source to back it up with? And I am not accusing you of lying by the way
7point5:
I have been told by a number of the other ‘more experienced’ drivers that …
Could be the problem
If coffeeholic has given incorrect information, which is highly unlikely, then I will be very pleased as I have been waiting ages for a chance to shoot him back
History - I keep trying to give info on this type of thing and keep getting it wrong - so coffeeholic shoots me
Ha ha good for him and us that he is so reliable with the knowledge then I do believe there could be a problem with us being told wrong by so called folk in the know as when I was pulled in Scotland just near the big lay by at Dunbar on A1 the VOSA wouldnt even take our digi cards out as they said we knew more then they did about them Talk about tosh, we explained we had no formal training on them and they said the same and these guys are meant to be making sure we stick to the rules set
OllieNotts:
Ha ha good for him and us that he is so reliable with the knowledge then I do believe there could be a problem with us being told wrong by so called folk in the know as when I was pulled in Scotland just near the big lay by at Dunbar on A1 the VOSA wouldnt even take our digi cards out as they said we knew more then they did about them Talk about tosh, we explained we had no formal training on them and they said the same and these guys are meant to be making sure we stick to the rules set
Dont knock Neil for his understanding and explanation of quite simple rules. It is all in reading them properly, which he is very good at.
Dont worry about VOSA not knowing all about the digi card yet.
I was stopped in France and the bloke took my card out, & put his in the driver slot to try to download driver 1 information. After 3 times, he gave up and breathalised me instead
But after 3 attempts that I failed to blow hard enough with my asthma he just laughed and bid me bon journee
OllieNotts:
Ha ha good for him and us that he is so reliable with the knowledge then I do believe there could be a problem with us being told wrong by so called folk in the know as when I was pulled in Scotland just near the big lay by at Dunbar on A1 the VOSA wouldnt even take our digi cards out as they said we knew more then they did about them Talk about tosh, we explained we had no formal training on them and they said the same and these guys are meant to be making sure we stick to the rules set
Dont knock Neil for his understanding and explanation of quite simple rules. It is all in reading them properly, which he is very good at.
Dont worry about VOSA not knowing all about the digi card yet.
I was stopped in France and the bloke took my card out, & put his in the driver slot to try to download driver 1 information. After 3 times, he gave up and breathalised me instead
But after 3 attempts that I failed to blow hard enough with my asthma he just laughed and bid me bon journee
You are clearly misunderstanding my humour I was not knocking Neil if that is his name I was being serious about it being good for you all AND me ffs I hate message forums as I never get my tone of voice across LOL
Multi-manning’ is the situation where, during each period of driving between any two consecutive
daily rest periods, or between a daily rest period and a weekly rest period, there are at least two drivers
in the vehicle to do the driving. For the first hour of multi-manning the presence of another driver or
drivers is optional, but for the remainder of the period it is compulsory. This allows for a vehicle to
depart from its operating centre and collect a second driver along the way, providing that this is done
within one hour of the first driver starting work.
Vehicles manned by two or more drivers are governed by the same rules that apply to single-manned
vehicles, apart from the daily rest requirements.
Where a vehicle is manned by two or more drivers, each driver must have a daily rest period of at least 9
consecutive hours within the 30-hour period that starts at the end of the last daily or weekly rest period.
Organising drivers’ duties in such a fashion enables their duties to be spread over 21 hours.
This is an example of how the duties of a two-man crew could be organised to take maximum advantage of multi-manning rules:
The maximum driving for a two-man crew taking advantage of this concession is 20 hours before a
daily rest is required (although only if both drivers are entitled to drive 10 hours).
Under multi-manning, the ‘second’ driver in a crew may not necessarily be the same driver for
the duration of the first driver’s shift but could in principle be any number of drivers as long as the
conditions are met. Whether these second drivers could claim the multi-manning concession in these
circumstances would depend on their other duties.
On a multi-manning operation the first 45 minutes of a period of availability will be considered to be a
break, so long as the co-driver does no work.
OllieNotts:
Well coffee holic fair points you’ve made. But it does wind me up as what is the point in asking people in authority if they tell us wrong?
By all means ask them, but double check for yourself. They don’t always know their job and as has been proved on this forum on several occasions they do give out bum information.
OllieNotts:
Unless you have it wrong?
Well there is a first time for everythiong I suppose but it won’t be this occasion. ROG is disappointed again now.
OllieNotts:
Maybe you can find a source to back it up with?
All i know about double manning its hard work i have only done it twice , once Glasgow Stockholm via ferry from Newcastle to Ijmuiden then 19hrs driving time to Stockholm then back via the shuttle ,it was hard work but done by the book
The second time was from Bellshill to Boulogne tip and load then back to Annan in 20 hrs spreadover with 19.5 hours driving time
You have to keep an eye on the hours you are both doing as it get complicated tryin to work out who has done what.
Its explained pretty well in the latest vosa publicationes as below.
Multi-manning
‘Multi-manning’ is the situation where, during each period of driving between any two consecutive
daily rest periods, or between a daily rest period and a weekly rest period, there are at least two drivers
in the vehicle to do the driving. For the first hour of multi-manning the presence of another driver or
drivers is optional, but for the remainder of the period it is compulsory. This allows for a vehicle to
depart from its operating centre and collect a second driver along the way, providing that this is done
within one hour of the first driver starting work.
Vehicles manned by two or more drivers are governed by the same rules that apply to single-manned
vehicles, apart from the daily rest requirements.
Where a vehicle is manned by two or more drivers, each driver must have a daily rest period of at least 9
consecutive hours within the 30-hour period that starts at the end of the last daily or weekly rest period.
Organising drivers’ duties in such a fashion enables their duties to be spread over 21 hours.
This is an example of how the duties of a two-man crew could be organised to take maximum
advantage of multi-manning rules:
The maximum driving for a two-man crew taking advantage of this concession is 20 hours before a
daily rest is required (although only if both drivers are entitled to drive 10 hours).
Under multi-manning, the ‘second’ driver in a crew may not necessarily be the same driver for
the duration of the first driver’s shift but could in principle be any number of drivers as long as the
conditions are met. Whether these second drivers could claim the multi-manning concession in these
circumstances would depend on their other duties.
On a multi-manning operation the first 45 minutes of a period of availability will be considered to be a
break, so long as the co-driver does no work.
Journeys involving ferry or train transport
Where a driver accompanies a vehicle that is being transported by ferry or train, the daily rest
requirements are more flexible.
A regular daily rest period may be interrupted no more than twice, but the total interruption must not
exceed 1 hour in total. This allows for a vehicle to be driven onto a ferry and off at the end of a sea
crossing. Where the rest period is interrupted in this way, the total â– â– â– â– â– â– â– â– â– rest period must still
be 11 hours. A bunk or couchette must be available during the rest period.
- not too clued up on double manning hours regs
Talk about tosh, we explained we had no formal training on them and they said the same and these guys are meant to be making sure we stick to the rules set 
