done some driving today only local stuff i forget to swap the mode to break
after 6 hours of work i changed the mode to break at 6 and half hours.
will i get away with this if i get stopped by vosa ?
kentman117:
done some driving today only local stuff i forget to swap the mode to break
after 6 hours of work i changed the mode to break at 6 and half hours.
will i get away with this if i get stopped by vosa ?
No, unless you took a print out straight away and wrote on the back the reason why.
On a plus note a bloke I was talking to today said he was stopped last thursday and the vosa were so nice he got a telling off for infringements but no fine 
what is the world coming to the lads saw sense!
kentman117:
done some driving today only local stuff i forget to swap the mode to break
after 6 hours of work i changed the mode to break at 6 and half hours.
will i get away with this if i get stopped by vosa ?
If it was just the 6 hour work thing for the WTD and you did not go over the 4.5 hours driving limit then you are unlikely to get any grief if stopped.
can I just ask as this feed sort of brushes on my question, is it a 30 minute break within the first 6 hours or can you work say a full 6 hours then take a 30min break before carrying on?
ebabes:
can I just ask as this feed sort of brushes on my question, is it a 30 minute break within the first 6 hours or can you work say a full 6 hours then take a 30min break before carrying on?
15 mins not 30
Example - assume all WORK is a 50/50 mix of driving & other work…
Daily rest
work 6 hours
break 15 mins
work 3 hours
break 30 mins
work 5 hours 15 mins
Daily rest
ebabes:
can I just ask as this feed sort of brushes on my question, is it a 30 minute break within the first 6 hours or can you work say a full 6 hours then take a 30min break before carrying on?
A 15 minute break is required before exceeding 6 hours working time, so yes you can work 6 hours then have a 15 minute break.
thanks for putting me straight on that one, don’t know what made me think it was 30 minutes - cheers
Unless you work for a UK company. I recently got a 3 day ban from Bibby’s for exceeding the 6 hour rule by 8 minutes. 
I explained that it was due to thier route and booking times, and traffic on the M4 near Bristol being heavy and not being able to get to the services in time. i had less than 4 hours driving, so no problem with drivers hours regs.
Now it would be interesting to find out how they would “punish” one of thier own driviers who did the same? As an Agency drver, potentially I could lose 3 days pay if the agency cannot find me any other work, would they suspend a company driver for 3 days with no pay? I think not.
Also, has the WTD changed recently? I was sure that the legal requirement was for a 30 minute break after 6 hours duty, or am I reading this post wrong?
truckerjon:
Also, has the WTD changed recently? I was sure that the legal requirement was for a 30 minute break after 6 hours duty, or am I reading this post wrong?
It never has been 30 mins for 6 hours.
The problem has been when mixing up two different parts of the regs
Not the exact way it’s written in the regs …
No driver may WORK (driving + other work) more than 6 hours without taking a break
Each break must be at least 15 mins
that bit above seems simple enough but then we go onto something else and this is where many mix this bit below with the above
If the total WORK in a shift is between 6 & 9 hours then a total of 30 mins of breaks must be taken which could be 1 X 30 or 2 X 15
OR - another important point as it is EITHER one or the other and not both
If the total WORK in a shift is over 9 hours then a total of 45 mins of breaks must be taken which could be 1 X 45 or 3 X 15 or 1 X 30 + 1 X 15 or 1 X 15 + 1 X 30
Two of those look familiar… I’m sure I’ve seen them in the tacho regs…
Breaks count for both the tacho and RT(WTD)R but the tacho regs regarding breaks take priority
hope that helps even if I have said it my way…
Mr Chekov is letting Captain kirk down on this so perhaps he needs sending back to Starfleet Academy for some retraining “Mr Chekov, are all the tachograph records legal?” asked Kirk. 
truckerjon:
Also, has the WTD changed recently? I was sure that the legal requirement was for a 30 minute break after 6 hours duty, or am I reading this post wrong?
The requirement is for a total of 30 minutes break/breaks if your working time is over 6 hours and no more than 9 hours but this break can be split into segments of at least 15 minutes.
As the regulations do not stipulate the length of break required for the six hour rule it’s assumed to be the smallest break that will count for the WTD which is 15 minutes.
Article 5 - Directive 2002/15/EC:
Member States shall take the measures necessary to
ensure that, without prejudice to the level of protection
provided by Regulation (EEC) No 3820/85 or, failing that, by
the AETRAgreement, persons performing mobile road transport
activities, without prejudice to Article 2(1), in no circumstances
work for more than six consecutive hours without a
break. Working time shall be interrupted by a break of at least
30 minutes, if working hours total between six and nine hours,
and of at least 45 minutes, if working hours total more than
nine hours.Breaks may be subdivided into periods of at least 15
minutes each.
I’m an agency driver. Driving bin wagon for 6 hours. I told the “loader” i had to stop for 30mins. He told me not to. I apologised and siad that it was the law. He called the boss who said i shouldn’t take the break. I respectfully quoted the WTD. He said he’d never heard of it and didn’t accept it. I called my agency and advise him of the situation. He said that in his many years service working on the driver supply side that he had never heard of the WTD and the only breaks needed were the four and a half hours ones. I toldeveryone that I was taking 30 mins and a further 30 mins when my four and a half hours were up. I was moderate in my tone as i am not entirely confident of my position. Was i right? If it comes to pay docking, what action should I take?
Euro:
I’m an agency driver. Driving bin wagon for 6 hours. I told the “loader” i had to stop for 30mins. He told me not to. I apologised and siad that it was the law. He called the boss who said i shouldn’t take the break. I respectfully quoted the WTD. He said he’d never heard of it and didn’t accept it. I called my agency and advise him of the situation. He said that in his many years service working on the driver supply side that he had never heard of the WTD and the only breaks needed were the four and a half hours ones. I toldeveryone that I was taking 30 mins and a further 30 mins when my four and a half hours were up. I was moderate in my tone as i am not entirely confident of my position. Was i right? If it comes to pay docking, what action should I take?
I assume you mean that after 6 hours driving the bin wagon you took a 30 minute break for the WTD regulations 6 hour rule.
Actually you should legally take at least 15 minutes at or before 6 hours working time so you was nearly correct
As for the company and the agency never having heard of the WTD
Here’s some links you may wish to pass onto them:
Road Transport (Working Time) Guidance
The Road Transport (Working Time) Regulations 2005
Article 5 - DIRECTIVE 2002/15/EC OF THE EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT AND OF THE COUNCIL of 11 March 2002
Sorry I can’t answer the question of whether or not you should be paid for the breaks as it depends on what arrangements you have with the agency, generally agency drivers are not paid for the first 45 minutes driving break and as the 15 minutes WTD 6 hour rule will count as the first part of the driver break you could be out of luck I’m afraid.
Euro:
I’m an agency driver. Driving bin wagon for 6 hours. I told the “loader” i had to stop for 30mins. He told me not to. I apologised and siad that it was the law. He called the boss who said i shouldn’t take the break. I respectfully quoted the WTD. He said he’d never heard of it and didn’t accept it. I called my agency and advise him of the situation. He said that in his many years service working on the driver supply side that he had never heard of the WTD and the only breaks needed were the four and a half hours ones. I toldeveryone that I was taking 30 mins and a further 30 mins when my four and a half hours were up. I was moderate in my tone as i am not entirely confident of my position. Was i right? If it comes to pay docking, what action should I take?
This depends on whether you are under EU or domestic driving regs
The answers in the post above are correct if under EU regs as it comes under RT(WTD)R rules
If on domestic regs it comes under the basic WTD rules which do recommended breaks and not compulsory breaks
From VOSA GV262-2 pages 43 + 44
Working time rules
The working time rules that apply to you depend on whether you drive a vehicle in scope of the EU or GB domestic drivers’ hours rules.If you drive a vehicle subject to the GB domestic drivers’ hours rules or are an occasional mobile worker (see text box opposite), you are affected by four provisions under the 1998 Regulations. These are:
- weekly working time, which must not exceed an average of 48 hours per week over the reference period (although individuals can ‘opt out’ of this requirement if they want to);
- an entitlement to 4.8 weeks’ paid annual leave (increased to 5.6 weeks from 1 April 2009);
- health checks for night workers; and
- an entitlement to adequate rest.
VOSA enforces the working time limits and the requirement for health checks for night workers under the 1998 Regulations for drivers operating under the GB domestic drivers’ hours rules
I could be wrong but I think you’ll find bins wagons usually run to EU regulations especially as Euro mentioned the break at 4.5 hours which presumably is the driver break.
tachograph:
I could be wrong but I think you’ll find bins wagons usually run to EU regulations especially as Euro mentioned the break at 4.5 hours which presumably is the driver break.
Door to door household rubbish collections are under domestic regs but commercial rubbish collections are under EU regs
ROG:
tachograph:
I could be wrong but I think you’ll find bins wagons usually run to EU regulations especially as Euro mentioned the break at 4.5 hours which presumably is the driver break.Door to door household rubbish collections are under domestic regs but commercial rubbish collections are under EU regs
Yep you’re right if it’s door to door household collections it’s domestic rules.
Does the driver have a choice of following either set of regs if doing something like door to door household bin collections ■■?
ROG:
Does the driver have a choice of following either set of regs if doing something like door to door household bin collections ■■?
No the employed driver does not have a choice.
tachograph:
ROG:
Does the driver have a choice of following either set of regs if doing something like door to door household bin collections ■■?No the employed driver does not have a choice.
Interesting … I asked because I could not see anything in the regs that stated it MUST be one or the other - I probably didn’t look in the right place…
ROG:
tachograph:
ROG:
Does the driver have a choice of following either set of regs if doing something like door to door household bin collections ■■?No the employed driver does not have a choice.
Interesting … I asked because I could not see anything in the regs that stated it MUST be one or the other - I probably didn’t look in the right place…
The point I was making ROG is that it would not be for the driver to choose
Whether or not the transport undertaking could choose to work to EU regulations even though the vehicle is exempt I don’t know, but in the case of a bin wagon that’s designed for and has the sole purpose of doing door to door household collections I wouldn’t of thought it would be fitted with a tachograph which kind of settles the question