Bit worrying !

[k5project]

Same I passed on Wag and drag but I didn’t have a problem changing across as its the same principle whist hooking up you have to make sure the jaws are open before you back up to trailer, then once your clicked you need to check if the pin although,all the same principle as a 5th wheel is just a more open version in fact I find it alot easier to hook up a artic then I do a wag and drag as your not crawling under a rigid to hook up.

What bothers me more is drivers who passed on a artic and don’t lift or lower suspension when hooking up or dropping off
and that big wedge of fifth wheel grease smeared on the front on the trailer or as above who put it in the lowest position so you have to jack it up all the time.

I think for the C+E test dcpc rather then the searching the vehicle for drugs test like you have to do it would be better do like the demonstrating you know how to use chains, straps and rope, You should have to do that with a fifth wheel and wag and drag so they test you’ve got a basic understanding of coupling systems because that stands more chance of killing someone or yourself then searching your truck for drugs or immigrants like you have to do.
Saying that both systems are in the books when learning also there’s videos on line so no real excuse for anyone with a c+e not knowing how to couple either.
People getting on there high horse saying wag and drag can’t drive artic’s well vise versa goes a couple of you said you’ve got no idea how to couple up a wag and drag so in reality and to your logic you shouldn’t have a C+E for everything Most of it is willing to learn people will just get there licence and that’s it I know it all, Where as real drivers will pay for extra training or seek out extra training ie books, videos, asking another driver before taking on a job

[brucewillis]

Even now at nights if I change trailers I still shine a light into the 5th wheel to make sure it’s secure. Other drivers take the mick but it’s water off the preverbial.
[/quote]
I do this, became a habit after I overshot the 5th wheel a few years ago. Better safe than sorry!

[santa]

Yeah - that first time…

I went for a job at Brown and Poulson in North London. I had never driven an artic but one licence did all in those days. The job was to drive a van delivering to shops, but I had seen this diddy little artic in the yard, so when they gave me a form to fill in, I ticked the experience box for artic as well.

Each morning, there was a big artic parked in the yard, that had come down from Paisley overnight. One morning I got called into the office. “You’ve driven an artic haven’t you,” the boss says. I, thinking of the diddy one, say I have. “Right then,” he says, giving me some keys. "Take that down to Boots The Chemist in Southwark.

“That”, was of course the big truck - four axles, and fully loaded with Gerber baby food. I had plenty of front then, so I climbed in and was relieved to find that there was not all that much difference. Eight gears instead of four, but otherwise…

I had to reverse it a bit to get out, but that was OK, and I just set off into London Traffic. It took me a while, and a few clipped kerbs, but I soon got the hang of it. Not so many bikes in those days thank God. When I got to Boots yard, my problems started. It was a small yard with a gate onto a narrow road. To get on a bay, I had to do a 180, through the gate, and between two other trucks.

After several attempts, one of the watching drivers wandered over, and after establishing that I was a novice, he talked me through it. Took me maybe half-an-hour, but I was never scared of a tight yard since.

I had to take a class 1 test in the 80s, and I am sure there was no coupling up in that. We had to know the theory, and what the different lines were, but never actually did it.

[martinviking]

waynedl:

martinviking:
The original story continues-
Just checked the trailers down the yard & WHB22 had got a rear mudguard hanging off/actually rubbing on the wheel, I was told by the fitter that they knew about it on Monday. Mr Agency from yesterday took it out after he managed to hook it up without even reporting the defect.
Poor bloke needs some Intense Training !

Surely it should’ve been VOR’d with a sign on the suzi connectors or a salvo lock or something to say “don’t take this trailer”

Don’t be silly Wayne ! That would be the correct way to deal with it ! (But our fitters won’t even give me a spare bulb or fuse without a defect report)
Then discipline the culprits for not reporting the defects. Eventually leading to dismissal if the correct procedures are not carried out in future.

But we’ve got a culture of not reporting defects because it costs bonus & home time, there’s only two of us that regularly report defects (I reported 3 today on 3 different trailers) & as I’ve said before it ■■■■■■ me off no end when I come in at 04.00 & they’ve hooked my tractor up to a trailer with mudguards hanging off, punctures or even knackered back doors. Then they want me to be in Manchester for 08.00.

WTF am I, a ‘Magician’ ? NO, I’m a Bloody Lorry Driver & I wish some of the other ‘People’ I have to work along side would be Lorry Drivers as well. Grrrrrr !

[juddian]

Regarding picking up trailers violently, if you’ve got a Daf (especially) with satans auto-ish-box, the one with the on/off switch clutch pedal, then unless you pick it up without lifting…possibility of straining the landing legs…then an almightly whack is gunna happen.
Comet ran a good number of Daf’s with that box, and the evidence was plain from the damage to their double deckers when the Daf’s rammed them into the loading docks whilst the poor sod behind the wheel was genuinly trying to feather what was laughingly called the clutch.

Anecdote warning…

Around 35 years ago i went into Castrol’s at Ellesmere for a load, and witnessed the worlds most hapless shunter in action, IIRC he had a Leyland or Mandator, well something with the ergomatic cab.

He’d pull in front of the trailer he was picking up, loaded or empty, and take a run up to it absolutely flat out in reverse…seriously he’d be doing something like 10mph when he hit the trailer, it was like a bloody earthquake the ground shook and the sound a minor explosion, never seen anything like it before or since …if he’d missed the pin i reckon the front of the trailer might well have pierced the cab and killed him, how the king pin didn’t snap clean off is mystery and quite how an empty didn’t skip up the ramps and fly over the 5th wheel entirely is another mystery.

Regarding the agency driver the subject of this thread…there are some people who really shouldn’t drive lorries, not cos they’re not decent blokes and not cos they’re not experienced, but you need some basic common bloody sense and aptitude to do this job properly, its not for everyone.

Whats worrying is that someone has continued, despite surely their gut instinct, to train someone obviously unsuited, and to compound that an examiner has passed them as competent.

There must come a point in training when its time to call a halt, its not right to keep taking someone’s money to train them when its blindingly obvious they just haven’t got it.

[albion1971]

Juddian your last sentence caught my eye! Have to say working as an Instructor in civvy st and in the military they are entirely different when it comes to who passes their test or not.
With the military especially in latter years it does not matter whether the person has no driving ability at all and never will he or she will still gain a license.
Again latterly some students(not mine I might add) may take 6 or 7 tests and eventually through luck they somehow manage to pass because of circumstances.
In the real world(civvy st.) in my view it is highly unlikely a totally incompetent driver will pass although it is not impossible as we see everyday.
The main problem as I have said before is the test itself is too easy and an awful lot of passing is down to luck(busy traffic…light traffic etc.)
Working for the military I had plenty students come back with a clean sheet.In the real world I only ever had 2.
By the way an examiner does not have to minor faults on the sheet or did not then.

[milkchurns]

albion1971:

milkchurns:

albion1971:
u know what sicken’s me…we are all made to do the ■■■ of a DCPC to make us better drivers…in all the painful hours we have to sit and listen to someone talking stuff theres no where in it that tells a newbie where or how to lift a trailer or drop a trailer.

Hang on a minute milkchurns…Why would the DCPC include connecting and dis connecting a trailer…YOU are taught that when you do your LGV training and you have to pass a test to show you are competent…Wake up…
[/quote

not when i done my training but that was back when god was a boy…from what that young fella told me he was never shown how to connect to a trailer and what the OP said i wouldnt think the person he met was showned how to do it…maybe they were and it was in 1 ear and out the other…by the way i am fully awake and in tip top form

Sorry but coupling and uncoupling a trailer was part of the test when they first introduced the HGV test.
You must have forgotten!

let me asure u my friend that when i or any of my friends did the HGV test we were NOT shown nor was it question any where in th lessons or test was hooking up to a trailer ever talked about or asked about.i’ve 2 brothers,3 cousins and many friends did the test.now that was anything from 10 to 16 years ago…so the only thing that is forgot is ur manners.do u like to try and undermine folks every day or is it just the odd day??

[ramon123]

Brucewillis:
Even now at nights if I change trailers I still shine a light into the 5th wheel to make sure it’s secure. Other drivers take the mick but it’s water off the preverbial.

I do this, became a habit after I overshot the 5th wheel a few years ago. Better safe than sorry!
[/quote]
I do the same,piece of mind and all that.Not ar$ed what anybody else thinks.

[muckles]

milkchurns:

albion1971:

milkchurns:

albion1971:
u know what sicken’s me…we are all made to do the ■■■ of a DCPC to make us better drivers…in all the painful hours we have to sit and listen to someone talking stuff theres no where in it that tells a newbie where or how to lift a trailer or drop a trailer.

Hang on a minute milkchurns…Why would the DCPC include connecting and dis connecting a trailer…YOU are taught that when you do your LGV training and you have to pass a test to show you are competent…Wake up…
[/quote

not when i done my training but that was back when god was a boy…from what that young fella told me he was never shown how to connect to a trailer and what the OP said i wouldnt think the person he met was showned how to do it…maybe they were and it was in 1 ear and out the other…by the way i am fully awake and in tip top form

Sorry but coupling and uncoupling a trailer was part of the test when they first introduced the HGV test.
You must have forgotten!

let me asure u my friend that when i or any of my friends did the HGV test we were NOT shown nor was it question any where in th lessons or test was hooking up to a trailer ever talked about or asked about.i’ve 2 brothers,3 cousins and many friends did the test.now that was anything from 10 to 16 years ago…so the only thing that is forgot is ur manners.do u like to try and undermine folks every day or is it just the odd day??

I passed my HGV test, straight to arctics in those days, over 20 years ago, on the test we didn’t have to do a practical uncoupling, coupling test. However they did used to ask us to tell them how we’d do it.

During my training we did go through it and we also had a run with a full length loaded trailer on one of the days training, but I think that was down to the training school.

I was luckier than many as the first time I drove a truck after passing, was double manning with my brother, this gave me the practical, real world training that so many don’t get.

I do think those first days on your on are daunting anyway regardless of how much training you get, that’s one of the reasons I’ll always try to take time to help an inexperienced driver, the other reason is I’m a bloody nice bloke and modest with it.

[truckman20]

truckyboy,you should look into that a bit more,personally i think it is a ■■■■ good idea,would not hurt to approach a few companies and offer your services in teaching young new drivers the ropes,there are plenty of assesors out there who teach newbies about the health and safety side and who then take them out for the dreaded driving assesment,but teaching them the basics they do not,could be a good little business

[ajt]

milkchurns:
u know what sicken’s me…we are all made to do the ■■■ of a DCPC to make us better drivers…in all the painful hours we have to sit and listen to someone talking stuff theres no where in it that tells a newbie where or how to lift a trailer or drop a trailer.

Depends what course you’re doing but one of them i did covered it.

milkchurns:
yea i have them all done he said.that poor lad paided £1000’s on lessons and driving test and £100’s on DCPC and no where along the line was he shown how to hook or unhook up to a trailer

Drop and catch (hooking and unhooking to a trailer) is part of the test for C+E. This driver you met must have also passed on a drawbar.

[muckles]

I’ve just read Truckboys post, I agree with pretty much all of it. It’s what I hoped the DCPC was going to be.
I did get something like that training whilst working for an agency, they sent me on a long term contract with the USAF at Mildenhall. When I got there they gave me a USAF driving licence, and before I could drive any of their vehicles I had to be cleared by the trainer and the vehicle type was put on the licence.

[juddian]

albion1971:
The main problem as I have said before is the test itself is too easy and an awful lot of passing is down to luck(busy traffic…light traffic etc.)

Now that i couldn’t agree more with, and the gradual dumbing down of testing isn’t improving things, mainly controlled stop, gearchanging exercise and the soon to be automatic pass for manual ticket…Jesus wept.

We need hands on lorry drivers, not box tickers, who a skilled examiner can feel totally confident that the driver is in absolute control in all circumstances, not that the driver happened to do the test route well on the day in question without crossing hands and moved his head from side to side enough times to show all round observation.

I’m not a trainer (would drive me to drink), but i did train a number of transporter drivers, from my limited experience doing that you’ve only got to travel a couple of miles including a few roundabouts with a driver and you know whether the driver is in complete control or simply steering the thing.

Going back to the trailer drop/pick up…what are some of these new drivers on?..why did they become lorry drivers at all, got made redundant from the hairdressers? not a smidgen of interest before?
Would any of one of us here not find out or go somewhere and watch others changing trailers in order to see it being done before we even contemplated taking our tests, i could not and would not have the gall to go somewhere to work as a paid lorry driver without the basic knowledge (even if its all theoretical) of what is entailed in the job, and trailer changing is just about the most basic requirement of an artic driver.
No boy scouts any more?

[albion1971]

milkchurns:

albion1971:

milkchurns:

albion1971:
u know what sicken’s me…we are all made to do the ■■■ of a DCPC to make us better drivers…in all the painful hours we have to sit and listen to someone talking stuff theres no where in it that tells a newbie where or how to lift a trailer or drop a trailer.

Hang on a minute milkchurns…Why would the DCPC include connecting and dis connecting a trailer…YOU are taught that when you do your LGV training and you have to pass a test to show you are competent…Wake up…
[/quote

not when i done my training but that was back when god was a boy…from what that young fella told me he was never shown how to connect to a trailer and what the OP said i wouldnt think the person he met was showned how to do it…maybe they were and it was in 1 ear and out the other…by the way i am fully awake and in tip top form

Sorry but coupling and uncoupling a trailer was part of the test when they first introduced the HGV test.
You must have forgotten!

let me asure u my friend that when i or any of my friends did the HGV test we were NOT shown nor was it question any where in th lessons or test was hooking up to a trailer ever talked about or asked about.i’ve 2 brothers,3 cousins and many friends did the test.now that was anything from 10 to 16 years ago…so the only thing that is forgot is ur manners.do u like to try and undermine folks every day or is it just the odd day??

Well let me assure you it was part of the syllabus of the LGV test 10-16 years ago.What company did you and your 2 brothers and 3 cousins use?
I was not undermining anyone.It was part of the test…100%

[milkchurns]

i did mine in rep of ireland and 2 cousins did theirs in northern ireland.your comments got the better of me so i phoned around a few of my friends and i’m told that none of them had to hook or un hook to trailers in their test.however i’m told that it did change when the theory test came in but so far i cant comfirm that nowadays its a part of the test to hook up to a trailer.my brother in law did his test about 4 years ago and at this min i’m awaiting him to text me back.my father and us 3 sons r drivers,my uncle and 2 of his sons are drivers,his 3rd son is a recoverly driver,my wife’s 4 brothers r driver.(i know its hard to belive)and none of us ever had to to the trailer test

[muckles]

Juddian:

albion1971:
The main problem as I have said before is the test itself is too easy and an awful lot of passing is down to luck(busy traffic…light traffic etc.)

Now that i couldn’t agree more with, and the gradual dumbing down of testing isn’t improving things, mainly controlled stop, gearchanging exercise and the soon to be automatic pass for manual ticket…Jesus wept.

Has test been dumbed down or is just more reflective of what a driver might expect these days?

I passed mine over 20 years ago, driving a 6 speed Ford Cargo with a 30" empty flatbed trailer. Ok I did have to do a braking exercise and double de-clutch and a gear change exercise.

I didn’t have to hook and unhook a trailer, I didn’t have to drive with high sided trailer, I believe in the future they are also going to be loaded. I didn’t have to take a theory test or a rigid test first, I didn’t have to show I understood how to use various load restraint systems, or how to do a daily walk round check.

The test isn’t perfect and no test really is, and I don’t think a test will ever turn out the truck driver you want.
Maybe the only way would be for truck driving to have a proper apprenticeship, years of initial training instead of weeks, it would be to expensive for most individuals, so companies would have to take on the apprentices and due to the cost and time scale they’d get rid of any drivers that weren’t up to the job.

[own_account_driver]

What’s interesting, as far as training by companies goes, is do they have as much responsibility to train agency drivers, particularly if they have self-employed status? Point being, if you had a self-employed electrician round you wouldn’t be expected to train them on how your ring main is installed.

[own_account_driver]

Juddian:
Regarding picking up trailers violently, if you’ve got a Daf (especially) with satans auto-ish-box, the one with the on/off switch clutch pedal, then unless you pick it up without lifting…possibility of straining the landing legs…then an almightly whack is gunna happen.
Comet ran a good number of Daf’s with that box, and the evidence was plain from the damage to their double deckers when the Daf’s rammed them into the loading docks whilst the poor sod behind the wheel was genuinly trying to feather what was laughingly called the clutch.

Anecdote warning…

Around 35 years ago i went into Castrol’s at Ellesmere for a load, and witnessed the worlds most hapless shunter in action, IIRC he had a Leyland or Mandator, well something with the ergomatic cab.

He’d pull in front of the trailer he was picking up, loaded or empty, and take a run up to it absolutely flat out in reverse…seriously he’d be doing something like 10mph when he hit the trailer, it was like a bloody earthquake the ground shook and the sound a minor explosion, never seen anything like it before or since …if he’d missed the pin i reckon the front of the trailer might well have pierced the cab and killed him, how the king pin didn’t snap clean off is mystery and quite how an empty didn’t skip up the ramps and fly over the 5th wheel entirely is another mystery.

Regarding the agency driver the subject of this thread…there are some people who really shouldn’t drive lorries, not cos they’re not decent blokes and not cos they’re not experienced, but you need some basic common bloody sense and aptitude to do this job properly, its not for everyone.

Whats worrying is that someone has continued, despite surely their gut instinct, to train someone obviously unsuited, and to compound that an examiner has passed them as competent.

There must come a point in training when its time to call a halt, its not right to keep taking someone’s money to train them when its blindingly obvious they just haven’t got it.

I have to say the one’s that take umpteen goes to pass do worry me. I would favour a test extension of 30 mins for every time they’ve had a go and failed before.

[albion1971]

milkchurns:
i did mine in rep of ireland and 2 cousins did theirs in northern ireland.your comments got the better of me so i phoned around a few of my friends and i’m told that none of them had to hook or un hook to trailers in their test.however i’m told that it did change when the theory test came in but so far i cant comfirm that nowadays its a part of the test to hook up to a trailer.my brother in law did his test about 4 years ago and at this min i’m awaiting him to text me back.my father and us 3 sons r drivers,my uncle and 2 of his sons are drivers,his 3rd son is a recoverly driver,my wife’s 4 brothers r driver.(i know its hard to belive)and none of us ever had to to the trailer test

Ok fair enough it is obviously different to the UK.Just to make it clear though it was not a practical test but the examiner would ask the procedure usually at the start of the test.Maybe things have changed in more recent years but I find it ludicrous if there is nothing about it in the test now.
Military drivers actually had to couple and uncouple as part of their test.

[albion1971]

muckles:

Juddian:

albion1971:
The main problem as I have said before is the test itself is too easy and an awful lot of passing is down to luck(busy traffic…light traffic etc.)

Now that i couldn’t agree more with, and the gradual dumbing down of testing isn’t improving things, mainly controlled stop, gearchanging exercise and the soon to be automatic pass for manual ticket…Jesus wept.

Has test been dumbed down or is just more reflective of what a driver might expect these days?

I passed mine over 20 years ago, driving a 6 speed Ford Cargo with a 30" empty flatbed trailer. Ok I did have to do a braking exercise and double de-clutch and a gear change exercise.

I didn’t have to hook and unhook a trailer, I didn’t have to drive with high sided trailer, I believe in the future they are also going to be loaded. I didn’t have to take a theory test or a rigid test first, I didn’t have to show I understood how to use various load restraint systems, or how to do a daily walk round check.

The test isn’t perfect and no test really is, and I don’t think a test will ever turn out the truck driver you want.
Maybe the only way would be for truck driving to have a proper apprenticeship, years of initial training instead of weeks, it would be to expensive for most individuals, so companies would have to take on the apprentices and due to the cost and time scale they’d get rid of any drivers that weren’t up to the job.

Yes I was the same,a Leyland Chieftan with a flat trailer.Were you not asked the coupling procedure by the examiner?
I think some of the changes are adavantageous, eg not using a flat trailer.I can also understand why they have now left the gear changing exercise out but why they stopped the breaking exercise baffles me.
As far as the theory test goes it is a complete waste of time.Candidates used to have to learn the highway code but now they learn what they need to learn for the theory test to pass and after that they seem to forget it all! Random questions from the HC were far better in my opinion.
Apart from all the exercises as I said the whole test is far too easy.I have done an examiners course and after doing that it is hard to believe how anyone can fail.I have also known examiners pack the job in because they despised having to pass incompetent drivers.
Rather than have a test they should have an ongoing assessment that involves all different types of roads and loads and the candidate has to cover so many miles to prove he or she is competent.
Of course this would never happen as the cost would be astronomical.
Looks like standards will not be improving in the near future!