Bit worrying !

I know we’ve all got to start learning somewhere, but-

Just filled up with diesel & an agency driver came over to me & asked why he couldn’t pull away from a trailer ?

I asked if he’d pulled the brake on ? “What brake” was the answer !

Now I’m concerned.

He’d managed to drop the legs, remove the number plate & pull all the Suzies off, but that was it !

He didn’t know about the brake or how to pull the pin !

I checked what he’d done so far then showed him the brake & how to pull the pin (letting him do it for himself)
I didn’t have time to go through everything/hooking up with him (it was 07.30 & I was supposed to be in Magna, Lutterworth at :sunglasses:

He did the right thing in asking but the concerning thing is-why do the agency send drivers in who need training, they charge top dollar for ‘Experienced’ drivers but then expect the companies to invest in training ‘Their’ Drivers.

Surely it would be better for the agency to double up for a shift when new drivers are taken on, agreeing it with the company’s first, how else do they get the proper training before doing any damage !
But I suppose that would cost the agency ?

To top it all, he was given a 16ft high cube trailer to play with for the day, another fact that I pointed out to him as well & told him to be carefully with bridges !

Could it be he learnt in a drag and draw and has never seen a 5th wheel? This is why drag/draw class 1 training is a bugbear of mine.

m1cks:
Could it be he learnt in a drag and draw and has never seen a 5th wheel?

That was my thought as well

And how many drivers have the faintest idea how a 5th wheel operates?
Now thats a little worrying as well dont you think.

Good point, didn’t think of that.

I’ve never driven a wagon n drag, so wouldn’t have a clue how to drop one or hook it up. But if that was me I’d ask for some basic training or even half a day with someone just to learn the ‘Ropes’.
(Even for free !) shock horror !

It’s alright people saying ‘I’m not working for nowt’ but some times you’ve got to invest in yourself occasionally.

Me too, never driven W+D and have no experience of hooking one up other than reading a textbook about it. I’d rather do a few hours free training instead of trying to guess and possibly have something bad happen because I didn’t know what I was doing.

Well if he`d been on wagon and drags, he would know that even they have to be dropped, and even they have a pin to pull, or locking device, so either way he should ( with half a brain ) know that something holds it all together. Even if he was on either, and never had to drop a trailer, should have been able to fathom it out, must have been a half wit.

martinviking:
Good point, didn’t think of that.

I’ve never driven a wagon n drag, so wouldn’t have a clue how to drop one or hook it up. But if that was me I’d ask for some basic training or even half a day with someone just to learn the ‘Ropes’.
(Even for free !) shock horror !

It’s alright people saying ‘I’m not working for nowt’ but some times you’ve got to invest in yourself occasionally.

For a newbie to go out WITH an experienced driver for a shift is always a good idea whether paid or unpaid

Bking:
And how many drivers have the faintest idea how a 5th wheel operates?
Now thats a little worrying as well dont you think.

Got to admit, never took one to bits (that’s why I’m a driver & not a mechanic/fitter) but I know it clamps around the pin on the trailer & the Dog Clip stops the handle from jumping out & releasing the clamp & I always check that the bar is across the pin as well as the tug test. Also try not to wake the dead when I hook up (why do so many drivers try to recreate the ‘Big Bang’ /start of the universe,when they hook up ?) all you need is a gentle click ! Lol.

Well thats the problem, agencies nowdays advertise for drivers with a tag " Newbies welcome " so there goes Mr Newbie, with his shiny new licence, whos been trying various companies to gain employment, but is always turned down because lack of experience ( see on another post of mine ) because there is no constructive training for new drivers, about the various trailers, units, straps, chains, ropes, how to contain various types of equipment EG, how to rope drums for example…
Anyway, this Mr Newbie, sees an add in his local rag, sees the wording, and gives them a ring, goes off for an interview, and basically doesnt give a monkeys ( its money in their pocket ) doesnt worry about image ( cos ol Joe in the office doesnt care either ) so long as the jobs covered, theres always a driver in the yard who can help, so off goes Mr Newbie.
But Mr Newbie, could also be someone who has been driving for 30 years, but has never encountered a certain situation, never pulled a fridge, a taut, a tilt, a tanker, a flat, a low loader, or whatever we all have encountered a new type of job or its equipment, but for the more experienced, we can fathom it out, and that brings me round to another post of mine:
There is not, has never been, facilities for drivers to train on the various pieces of equipment, thats around in the transport industry, very few companies have in house facilities, very few drivers need to re train, as they are settled within their own environment, but i believe that as there will be a need for new drivers, those drivers should have more than just a licence, that piece of plastic, doesnt give you the right to call yourself a driver, you have to earn that, and with proper training, you can achieve it. Which brings me to my point, there are many drivers like myself, who have spent years in the industry, who have been there, done it, got the T shirt have so much knowledge, theyve forgotten more than most people know ( just kidding ) a cliche i know, but what does this industry do when we get older, put us on the scrap heap, there is no step up, not even an inkling of an opportunity, no where to pass on our vast knowledge, it will all be lost, some of it, some will be used with the new instructors, who are spilling facts that are not true ( DCPC ) There is an opportunity for people like me to take an active role in the training of new drivers, to give them the tools of the trade so that when they get their shiny new licence, they are in fact equipped and ready for work, the minute they step from the `Training Academy so if anyone wants to loan me a few million, i will set up this academy, and make this industry something to be proud of.

martinviking:

Bking:
And how many drivers have the faintest idea how a 5th wheel operates?
Now thats a little worrying as well dont you think.

Got to admit, never took one to bits (that’s why I’m a driver & not a mechanic/fitter) but I know it clamps around the pin on the trailer & the Dog Clip stops the handle from jumping out & releasing the clamp & I always check that the bar is across the pin as well as the tug test. Also try not to wake the dead when I hook up (why do so many drivers try to recreate the ‘Big Bang’ /start of the universe,when they hook up ?)all you need is a gentle click ! Lol.

Hah! Tell that to an inexperienced driver stuck in a MAN auto box for the first couple of times, you got to operate that pedal with a feather.

Even if he was trained on a W&D he should have known about a trailer brake.

Agencies don’t care about whether people can do the job or not they’re only interested in making money out of them.

One agency I phoned about registering with them, wanted to send me out on jobs before they’d met me and before I’d even registered with them, I told them on the phone what experience I’d got and they just accepted it, in the end I never registered with them and never worked for them.

Ryy86:

martinviking:

Bking:
And how many drivers have the faintest idea how a 5th wheel operates?
Now thats a little worrying as well dont you think.

Got to admit, never took one to bits (that’s why I’m a driver & not a mechanic/fitter) but I know it clamps around the pin on the trailer & the Dog Clip stops the handle from jumping out & releasing the clamp & I always check that the bar is across the pin as well as the tug test. Also try not to wake the dead when I hook up (why do so many drivers try to recreate the ‘Big Bang’ /start of the universe,when they hook up ?)all you need is a gentle click ! Lol.

Hah! Tell that to an inexperienced driver stuck in a MAN auto box for the first couple of times, you got to operate that pedal with a feather.

Well actually what you’ve got to do is select reverse crawler :wink:

This time of year is all about arms and legs to put in the truck. :wink:

Training and familiarisation with the equipment to be used doesn’t come into it.

Jobs got to be done don’t you know?!

I read your post with interest truckyboy and tend to agree with what you are saying however can I ask what training you got all these years ago?
I passed my HGV test in 1977 and spent quite a few years learning for myself.The only job I ever did where I received some training was driving petrol tankers but most jobs(agency work) it was just get on with it and learn yourself and I never came unstuck.(luckily)
Later I trained military drivers in many driver related subjects which were certainly far from perfect but it did give drivers an insight into different types of vehicles and loading etc.something that does not really happen in civvy street.
I honestly think there is probably more training available now than there ever was but it just depends if a driver wants to do it or for that matter can afford it.
DCPC was definitely needed it is just a pity there is not more hands on stuff included.

truckyboy:
Well thats the problem, agencies nowdays advertise for drivers with a tag " Newbies welcome " so there goes Mr Newbie, with his shiny new licence, whos been trying various companies to gain employment, but is always turned down because lack of experience ( see on another post of mine ) because there is no constructive training for new drivers, about the various trailers, units, straps, chains, ropes, how to contain various types of equipment EG, how to rope drums for example…
Anyway, this Mr Newbie, sees an add in his local rag, sees the wording, and gives them a ring, goes off for an interview, and basically doesnt give a monkeys ( its money in their pocket ) doesnt worry about image ( cos ol Joe in the office doesnt care either ) so long as the jobs covered, theres always a driver in the yard who can help, so off goes Mr Newbie.
But Mr Newbie, could also be someone who has been driving for 30 years, but has never encountered a certain situation, never pulled a fridge, a taut, a tilt, a tanker, a flat, a low loader, or whatever we all have encountered a new type of job or its equipment, but for the more experienced, we can fathom it out, and that brings me round to another post of mine:
There is not, has never been, facilities for drivers to train on the various pieces of equipment, thats around in the transport industry, very few companies have in house facilities, very few drivers need to re train, as they are settled within their own environment, but i believe that as there will be a need for new drivers, those drivers should have more than just a licence, that piece of plastic, doesnt give you the right to call yourself a driver, you have to earn that, and with proper training, you can achieve it. Which brings me to my point, there are many drivers like myself, who have spent years in the industry, who have been there, done it, got the T shirt have so much knowledge, theyve forgotten more than most people know ( just kidding ) a cliche i know, but what does this industry do when we get older, put us on the scrap heap, there is no step up, not even an inkling of an opportunity, no where to pass on our vast knowledge, it will all be lost, some of it, some will be used with the new instructors, who are spilling facts that are not true ( DCPC ) There is an opportunity for people like me to take an active role in the training of new drivers, to give them the tools of the trade so that when they get their shiny new licence, they are in fact equipped and ready for work, the minute they step from the `Training Academy so if anyone wants to loan me a few million, i will set up this academy, and make this industry something to be proud of.

Great idea, I love passing on my knowledge, thats how I learnt & I used to be a depot based trainer, getting paid to teach new & new to the industry drivers.
But the Bosses know that Muppets like Me will always put some one right or help them out for no extra money, so why should they pay some one to teach Newbies how to look after their kit, after all these tractor & trailers only cost around £100,000+.

u know what sicken’s me…we are all made to do the ■■■ of a DCPC to make us better drivers…in all the painful hours we have to sit and listen to someone talking stuff theres no where in it that tells a newbie where or how to lift a trailer or drop a trailer…i also meet a young fella a few months ago,he came into moypark to hook up to his trailer(fridge)backed the whole way in.this fella was a big guy.u would want to of seen him trying to get his lines on with the small space…next he went to the legs of the trailer.he tryed and he tryed to get the handle to turn.he just couldnt do it.now i had enough of watching this fella so out i get.poor lad hadnt a clue so i gave him a few tips about hooking up to a fridge.he also knew nothing about a trailer brake.and this fella was heading for a boat to go to sittingbourne.thankfully for his sake i knew where in sittingbourne he was going and wrote all down for him and showed him the slow gear on the legs and whatever else i could think of.i gave him my phone no and told him to ring me at any time if he was unsure of anything…before he left i asked him if he had any of his DCPC done…yea i have them all done he said.that poor lad paided £1000’s on lessons and driving test and £100’s on DCPC and no where along the line was he shown how to hook or unhook up to a trailer

u know what sicken’s me…we are all made to do the ■■■ of a DCPC to make us better drivers…in all the painful hours we have to sit and listen to someone talking stuff theres no where in it that tells a newbie where or how to lift a trailer or drop a trailer.

Hang on a minute milkchurns…Why would the DCPC include connecting and dis connecting a trailer…YOU are taught that when you do your LGV training and you have to pass a test to show you are competent…Wake up…

albion1971:
u know what sicken’s me…we are all made to do the ■■■ of a DCPC to make us better drivers…in all the painful hours we have to sit and listen to someone talking stuff theres no where in it that tells a newbie where or how to lift a trailer or drop a trailer.

Hang on a minute milkchurns…Why would the DCPC include connecting and dis connecting a trailer…YOU are taught that when you do your LGV training and you have to pass a test to show you are competent…Wake up…[/quote

not when i done my training but that was back when god was a boy…from what that young fella told me he was never shown how to connect to a trailer and what the OP said i wouldnt think the person he met was showned how to do it…maybe they were and it was in 1 ear and out the other…by the way i am fully awake and in tip top form

HI Albion, in answer to your question, like i said in the post, back in the 60s you could blag your way in to a job, just tell them you been working for so and so, ( a company who had gone bankrupt and they would believe you ) today they would want to phone everyone up whos on your cv. So for example when i first started i approached the transport office ( even back in those days, there was a little window where you had to speak through ) so as i asked them if they need any drivers, a guy asked how old i was , so when i said 17, he said if you told me 19 you could have a job, then quickly closed the window, so thinking what an ignorant barstewardand nearly walked away, the window suddenly opened again, and the same guy asked what i wanted, i could have answered, but suddenly grasped what he was saying, so after giving him the right answers, gave me a form to fill in, and told me to start 0700 the following monday. I started, had a choice of a Thames trader, or a tk Bedford, so seeing as it was winter, and seeing as the TK had better heaters, thats what i got, so after a 2 minute induction, like heres the diesel pump, that was about it, so i followed another driver over to Rainham in kent, and was onShip to Shore, which meant stacks of timber, straight off the boat, and taking them a few miles, into the storage area, i hadnt a clue about roping, dollies, or whatever, you was shown, or you had to ask, and no one minded, they were glad to show you, today, they frown upon it, I DONT, I help anyone if i can is my motto, but i learned over the years many aspects of this industry, sometimes there was no one to help, just work it out yourself, routes, or how to do this, how to do that. I happened to be in the yard, when drivers were talking in a group, amongst them was a bod from the office, so as each driver asked the other Can you drive an artic and each answered yes or no but when they asked me, i said yes, mainly to sound a bit big headed, well i was the youngest there, and the greenest, but thought it would give me some standing, anyway, all was forgotten, until a few weeks later, there i was standing nattering in the yard, when this bod came out of the office Hey Chalkyyou can drive artics cant ya i couldnt say no, so i answered yes, Well, take that Maggie over there, get yourself a trailer, and come and see me, Maggie, looking at the front grille, soon taught me why it was called a maggie, well that was the easy part, hooking up, plugging in the lines was easy too, obviously forgot to take off the trailer brake ( which was a ratchet type back then ) And eventually got told to go to Croydon and load 2 machines ( they were car wash machines ) and i was going to Liverpool ( wherever that was ) no night out gear, no money, ( well how was i to know ) just thinking about it now, brings a smile to my face, had a huge problem in Croydon, it was the main A23, and i eventually found the company i wanted, and it was the rush hour, so i waited for a gap in the traffic, indicators on, pulled across the road, past the entrance, and thought i had cracked it, now i had to reverse in, oh my god, and it was only a 27ft trailer, and a single one at that, well there wasnt many twin axles on general haulage, or even longer ones, only low loaders, anyway, after about 20 minutes, motorists were getting, fed up, impatient, and one old boy started walking towards the cab, after parking his morris 8, Been driving long drive he asked, No first time ok then, dont worry, move over ( into the passenger seat ) and he got in, Now watch me , and i did, every move, and we had a good chin wag whilst loading, and he told me he was a lorry driver too, and we all have to start somewhere, i learnt a lot, over the next few hours, knots, dollies, double dollies, transport cafes, en route, headlight flashes, how to say thank you, and most of it learned from listening, from asking, but i got through it, the same as International work, been to spain on holiday, so at my first interview, told them the truth, been to France, Spain ( didnt tell them on holiday ) and those days your passport was stamped ) so theres the proof, all i wanted was a foot in the door, which i certainly got, then the confidence grew with every job, and talking to other drivers you soon learn, there was quite a bit to learn, how to fiddle ( plus ) how to do this, do that, T forms, T1 T2 and later Carnets, ATA, TIR, Open TIR/Closed, Borders, who wanted what, what forms, what windows, etc, etc, but we learned as we went along, even asking foreigners what we have to do, and getting help as we needed it, so im not going to talk anymore, its time to wrap it up, but hope ive answered your question…ha ha