Any trailer over 750kgs MAM must have brakes.
Quite true, but how does this work for tow trucks then? 
dennisw1:
Any trailer over 750kgs MAM must have brakes.
Quite true, but how does this work for tow trucks then?
Iām not sure, but do they have a very long red and yellow line to connect up to the trailer when moving artics? Donāt know how it works with rigids though.
Those vehicles are specifically designed for moving that kind of stuff about though, so perhaps they have uprated brakes?
Marlowās isnāt rigged up for that, but as heās openly admitted to running about with defective brakes before in the past, then that will have been the least of his worries. 
Driveroneuk:
As oddsodz said, ( & iām suprised nobody mentioned it sooner) my first thoughts were lights & brakes
Any trailer over 750kgs MAM must have brakes.
A towed vehicle is not a trailer. And his lighting board would sort the first bit out.
dennisw1:
Any trailer over 750kgs MAM must have brakes.
Quite true, but how does this work for tow trucks then?
most tow trucks connect an airline between the tower and towed,this wont help the brakes work but it will keep the air up thus stopping the brakes on the towed coming on,most towerās must suspend tow,those that dont and use a solid bar will usualy have a driver in the towedā¦
What marlow done was way over the top and shouldn,t have been allowedā¦
Quite true, but how does this work for tow trucks then
special vehicle rules apply to tow trucks,by the way if you ran down the motorway like that,that becomes another offence
Never a copper about when you need one eh Jim? These cowboy outfits should be ousted out.
Rob K:
Never a copper about when you need one eh Jim? These cowboy outfits should be ousted out.
they should rob,this is the sort of thing that gives this profession of ourās a realy bad name,.complete lack of h&s rules and a complete lack of thought for other road userās and there safety,remember a bit back when a digger arm took out a car and itās passengerās
Heavy Recovery vehicles have airline connection points at the rear.
Not sure if its still the case, but years back trucks used to have airline connector points behind the grill specifically for use when being towedā¦& they were always seized due to lack of use.
We have an active member on Tnet who is a recovery man, (sorry mr beacons, canāt remember your screen name) Iām sure heāll be along soon to put us all right.
only way i could justify that would have been to get it back from somewhere remote (e.g siberia!) - far too much to go wrong with the setup pictured, can you imagine the aftermath and consequences at 40-50mph down the M6? 
Iāve done my share of recovery work and as said above the towed vehicle doesnāt usually have the benefit of braking [there is a device that can be rigged up to operate the brake pedal but its not widely used]. The casualties brakes are normally just held off by running a constant air supply into the air system [often a valve near air tanks]. If this isnāt possible due to RTA damage etc. the alternative is to crawl underneath and wind the brakes off.
When towing an artic they usually rig the tractor as above then connect normal [but longer] air and electrcal lines to the trailer so they get the trailer brakes and lights working with the recovery trucks.
I think taking the truck down the road on the hiab was wrong and could of caused a lot of trouble for the sake of avoiding a recovery bill.
Someone should send the picture to AVRO [association of vehicle recovery operators] a group that have strived for decades to make heavy recovery safer and more proffessional.
Hell fire, just give me a minute to pick up my tin hat, think itās a waste of time though as itās that bashed about I donāt reckon it will fit amore, been under a bit of attack, in case you hadnāt noticed 
.
Right hereās my counter attack, no guns firing just a bit of logical debate. (when in a hole before stop diggingā¦ Iāll call in a JCB.)
First things first, Iām not against H&S, but neither am I risk averse. As with everything in life, it was a risk, but was it a risk worth taking? Iām a firm believer in the old adage of never take a risk without a return, and you canāt do enough for a good gaffer.
However, isnāt this the same bloke who was driving round with defective brakes for months on end?
Marlowās isnāt rigged up for that, but as heās openly admitted to running about with defective brakes before in the past, then that will have been the least of his worries.
To clear this up Rob. It wasnāt for months on end it was for 4 miles. Yes the brakes were defective, the feed from the compressor to the air tank had ruptured. I had low air pressure but with my limited amount of mechanical knowledge I know that if the air pressure had got to low in the wagon the brakes would have applied. The worse that could have happened is that I would have been stranded across a junction. With a bit of forward planning and defensive driving I was confident that the vehicle could be moved 4 miles. My return to the risk (from the authorities no Safety) on this occasion was that I could spend a few hours packing for an extended holiday.
are the back axleās of the towing vehicle overloaded?
the tare weight on the unladen vehicle is 15500kgs as explained before my main problem is excessive weight on the front axle. The total unladen weight on the rear bogie is 7 tons, 8 with the arm on the bed. The permissible weight is 18 ton. Using the formula (payload X distance from centre of load to rear axle) / wheelbase then the weight imposed on each axle would be as followed
payload ā 3.5 tops
distance from centre of load to rear axle ā 5
wheelbase ā 6.5
in effect as the distance to centre of load to rear axle is a negative amount so I estimate the weight on the front axle would be down to 5.3 ton and the load on the bogie would be 13.7 ton, well within the permissible 18 ton like I said
quite possibility the only time that any 6x2 rigid with an arm in excess of 30t/mtr has run well balanced
Do we get paid enough to do that?.
whatās that to do with anything I thought your concerns were to do with safety 
are the brakes on the towed vehicle working?
NO, and that would have been a concern had it not been from my experience with a tow truck who recovered me from Hyde last year. It would appear that the only way that any suspended tow can be braked is by use of the yellow line to the trailer brakes. Itās not possible to brake a rigid on suspended tow. Itās for this reason that recovery firms prefer heavy haulage tractor units although this one sent from a main ādafā dealer was a stretched stranded 6x2 daf 95 310.
I would have thought a HiAb was solid enough.
thatās what I thought too, itās certainly stronger than the scaffold pipe normaly used. 
if your boss had said do it!! ,would you do it??..
if my boss told me to do anything I think heād be disappointed. The trust we have is second to none, if I had thought for a minute that it was unsafe I would have shouted and he would have foot the bill.Heās certainly no cowboy
A towed vehicle is not a trailer. And his lighting board would sort the first bit out.
thanks for that although Iāve got to admit my lighting board wouldnāt reach. Happen as well I had the other guy in the FL10 watching my back end. No defence I know, but at least it reduced any unnecessary risk.
Never a copper about when you need one eh Jim? These cowboy outfits should be ousted out.
Heās certainly no cowboy, however maybe your right Rob, then we can all drive for major PLCās trundling along at 40mph under your feet.
remember a bit back when a digger arm took out a car and itās passengerās
surly this was the result of a driver not assessing the risks and securing the bucket, maybe he was so risk averse heād forgotten how to asses his own risk because he never seen it written down on a risk assessment and laminated by some bod in the office.
As I have said before I was nipping it as I passed Beatock, having said that I was confident that it was both safe and secure.
The one thing I have to hold my hand up to and say guilty as charge isā¦ā¦ā¦ā¦
ā¦ā¦ā¦ā¦
ā¦ā¦ā¦.
ā¦ā¦ā¦
donāt know weather I should post this now that someone posted this
ā¦
ā¦
ā¦
Someone should send the picture to AVRO
I thought it was just wagon drivers who read this now that the hwa have recruited most of the dead wood.
ā¦ā¦ā¦.
ā¦ā¦ā¦.
Sod it, here goes
ā¦
I need to come clean
The guilt if killing me
I had a ā ā ā between somewhere Moffet and Gretna Green ā guilty as charged
Suppose I better look on the bright side and have a little chuckle at this comment
mechanic77:
Iāve done my share of recovery work and as said above the towed vehicle doesnāt usually have the benefit of braking [there is a device that can be rigged up to operate the brake pedal but its not widely used].the alternative is to crawl underneath and wind the brakes off. [/size]
[/size]
glad I didnāt say that, theyāll hang you on ere for that. Look on the bright side fellor if we both go down for it and end up sharing a cell at armley, at least I can give it as well as take it (donāt forget your Vaseline and a file if youāre a mechanic)
Someone should send the picture to AVRO [association of vehicle recovery operators] a group that have strived for decades to make heavy recovery safer and more proffessional.
[/quote]
I guess your gaffers a memberthe alternative is to crawl underneath and wind the brakes off.
cu on d wing
You seem to have not understood what I had said in your haste to quote half of one of my sentances.
The referance to winding brakes off [if you go back and read it] was in relation to rigging up a suspended tow where it isnāt possible to hold the brakes off using air pressure. The example I gave was after an RTA where the air pipes/tanks may be punctured another example would be fire damage.
As you know no air pressure means brakes locked on. How else would you think the truck could be moved?
so, for how many miles and what type of roads did you drive this on?
As you know no air pressure means brakes locked on. How else would you think the truck could be moved?
there is no other way
sorry to use you as a scape goat fellor but you emphasise perfectly the point I was making to Rob regarding defective brakes.
But as youāre a recovery man, can you explain how you would rig the brakes on a long haul recovery with a rigid
Other than pressurising the red line to the tanks
As I expained before, if air is not an option the method is to wind off the brakes by turning the bolt in the middle of the brake chamber only on the axle that need to freewheel.
Of course this doesnāt mean the truck should be dropped off the other end without making sure the its known whats been done.
Just read the original post. Didnāt realise youāve driven it like that for 250 miles . A couple of miles down the road maybe, but not all the way from Falkirk to W Yorks .
Unbelievable. All to save a couple of hundred quid. 
I donāt know what the big deal is, theyāve both got amber flashing lights on them as well. Proffesional recovery sometimes isnāt any more than that. Not much different than towing a car on a rope!!
The big differance from towing a car on a rope is that the rear of the truck is lifted off the ground, therefore imposing weight onto the hiab and the towing truck.
Quote:
Never a copper about when you need one eh Jim? These cowboy outfits should be ousted out.
Heās certainly no cowboy, however maybe your right Rob, then we can all drive for major PLCās trundling along at 40mph under your feet
certainly proved he was a cowboy for allowing you to do it !!
Sorry to but into this debate on the rights and wrongs but would it of not been easier to lift the broken down truck on the back of the towing wagon?
Looks like it would fit just,