Has any one or does anyone use biodiesel on its own or mixed with derv? I’ve been running my van on it for about 4 years now, the guy I buy it off supplies a couple of the bus and delivery companies and other domestic users like me. He produces his own commercially out of waste veg oil from all the hotels/chippies locally. i think he must make 1000’s of litres a week, all legit too. I just wondered does anyone or would anyone consider using it as a cheaper fuel? I was just thinking of the savings for operators.
There is a bus company local to me which runs a few buses on biodiesel as part of a ‘publicity stunt’ (the buses are painted green to differentiate them) and for which they got some local enterprise grant funding.
Having spoken to a couple of the fitters, they are seeing a lot of problems with the fuel pumps and injectors on these vehicles as well as poor fuel returns - I think they are built on a Dennis chassis, not sure what engine is in them though.
FH16Globetrotter:
There is a bus company local to me which runs a few buses on biodiesel as part of a ‘publicity stunt’ (the buses are painted green to differentiate them) and for which they got some local enterprise grant funding.
Having spoken to a couple of the fitters, they are seeing a lot of problems with the fuel pumps and injectors on these vehicles as well as poor fuel returns - I think they are built on a Dennis chassis, not sure what engine is in them though.
Yep, I’ve head alot about fuel pump worries etc, I think that VW and Mercedes both accepted biodiesel compatability with their cars, I read something a while ago on it, but I’ve not heard on the truck side. Some German service stations started to sell it on the forecourt some years ago. I suppose one thing to remember is there is already a 5% ( I think) bio additive to normal derv.
My missus’s peugeot 406 is fine with it too, even with the engine management system, my Mazda van has a mechanical fuel pump, so it will burn anything! One point to remember is Rudolf Diesel designed his engine to used nut oil and veg derived oil. I haven’t heard of any bus calamities yet, so I reckon their running ok. As for fuel mpg returns, I haven’t noticed any difference at all and I am a real miser with fuel! Thanks for the response,
Bio-diesel okayish in old style TDI engines. Bio-diesel very NOT okay with any common rail engine, eg. all modern diesel engines, unless you want very big bills for new injectors and pumps.
In cold weather it also waxes up your fuel filter because of all the ■■■■■ in it. We had to get an additional filter fitted to our fuel pump in the yard to take some of the crap out of it. 2 winters ago 18 motors from 2 different sites broke down in the same night all had waxed filters
We had the experts in from shell saying ‘‘that shouldn’t really happen’’
The additional filter on the pump seems to have cured this problem for us.
merc0447:
In cold weather it also waxes up your fuel filter because of all the [zb] in it. We had to get an additional filter fitted to our fuel pump in the yard to take some of the crap out of it. 2 winters ago 18 motors from 2 different sites broke down in the same night all had waxed filters
We had the experts in from shell saying ‘‘that shouldn’t really happen’’
The additional filter on the pump seems to have cured this problem for us.
What was that with merc0447?, pure bio or diesel/bio mix? I know bio can wax at a higher temperature if the mix is too great, also clogs filters because it purges fuel lines and tanks, hence the crap caught in filters, shame that a modern engine as rob k says can’t seem to handle it though, imagine running your motor with fuel at 60p a litre! I’m not sure on the ages of our local busses etc running on it, what engines are you running with it?
where I used to work we had one yard where all the trucks except for 2
ran on Bio-diesel, these were a Iveco,s and there had to have there service
done more frequently than the other vehicles, also they were lacking in power
…
i also have a friend who drives a truck whicj is powered by ■■■■ seed oil he has
a 900liter + tank and also has a small 300 liter diesel tank in case he runs out and
can not get any more ■■■■-seed , they go all over Germany and also into
the UK and Ireland, with these vehicles,
brit pete:
where I used to work we had one yard where all the trucks except for 2
ran on Bio-diesel, these were a Iveco,s and there had to have there service
done more frequently than the other vehicles, also they were lacking in power
…
i also have a friend who drives a truck whicj is powered by ■■■■ seed oil he has
a 900liter + tank and also has a small 300 liter diesel tank in case he runs out and
can not get any more ■■■■-seed , they go all over Germany and also into
the UK and Ireland, with these vehicles,
Thanks brit pete, what motor and age is your friends’ truck? Interesting to know people are using it, it just never really occured to me with an HGV, but the savings in money must be pretty substantial for him?
the firm uses brand new trucks no second-hand ones as its a
very big transport company whose work is with delivering
Furniture, all over, Mercedes and MAN all are serviced
direct by the trucks manufactures workshops,
We used to convert about 4-5 trucks per month in our workshop to Bio diesel up until about 12 months ago,at a cost of about 2500€ but this was at a time when bio diesel was about 20% cheaper than diesel.The Geman Goverment decided to raise the duty on Bio Diesel and it is now only about 3 % cheaper than Diesel, with the cost of 2500€ and filter changes evry 30000km instead of 90000km its not worth it unless you are going to run the the truck well over the Million kms.
Bio desel, even if mixed as low as 5% is a total PITA, it can get algae growing in it and that plays havoc with your fuel lines, filters and filter housings, a few states and Canadian provinces have gone over to a blend and Oil Additive companies like Lucas (the mob who make the oil stabiliser with the two sets of gears in the display model, found on parts dept counters) make a cleaner, I recently had an algae issue and after cleaning out my lines with the Lucas stuff I picked up .7mpg and a lot of performance, sad thing was, we spent over 2 grand trying to find the problem before I cut a fuel filter in half and found the problem
Cooking oil should be used to cook chips, it shouldn’t get any closer to a diesel engine than giving you a heavier foot to hit the throttle with
Over here in Germany we have not had that problem at all, this may be
because they refine or mix it differently to else where , yes one suffers
a power loss, but thats all I will ask my mate if they had any problems
with their trucks running on ■■■■ -seed (RAPS-ÖL),but he has never said
any thing when we have talked about this,
newmercman: Bio desel, even if mixed as low as 5% is a total PITA, it can get algae growing in it and that plays havoc with your fuel lines, filters and filter housings, a few states and Canadian provinces have gone over to a blend and Oil Additive companies like Lucas (the mob who make the oil stabiliser with the two sets of gears in the display model, found on parts dept counters) make a cleaner, I recently had an algae issue and after cleaning out my lines with the Lucas stuff I picked up .7mpg and a lot of performance, sad thing was, we spent over 2 grand trying to find the problem before I cut a fuel filter in half and found the problem
Cooking oil should be used to cook chips, it shouldn’t get any closer to a diesel engine than giving you a heavier foot to hit the throttle with
Mark, standard diesel in the UK now contains 8% bio-diesel. There’s a sticker saying so on the diesel pumps at the garages.
I run mine on V-Power which doesn’t have any in it. Granted it’s 7-8ppl more than standard derv, but I get about 2-3% better mpg which balances out the extra cost, but it also has additional benefits of smoother power delivery as well as keeping the internals of the engine all clean and shiny.
brit pete:
Over here in Germany we have not had that problem at all, this may be
because they refine or mix it differently to else where ,
I think you’re right brit pete, to get rid of the algae and crud from used and straight (unused) veg oil, it has to be refined. This is done by heating the oil and mixing methanol to it. This separates the glyserol (soaps) and trans-fats from it. These are the problem for clogging filters, blocking injectors, “gumming” pistons and waxing in the colder weather.Once these are removed, the mixture is literally “washed” in a fine waterspray, the water is drained off with any residue and the end product is bioderv. If it’s done thoroughly and properly you should have a good quality “burn” and no problems. It should also have a similar viscosity level as standard diesel. Carbon emissions levels are about 60% lower, this is why it’s being sneaked into diesel, it’ll be heading towards 11% in the next few years. I MOT’d my van last year on standard derv, it was a borderline pass on soot levels, this year a mix of both and it was 40% lower!! I only use waste oil biodiesel through principal. I await the flack!!
Do yourself a favour & leave the ■■■■ alone brookie its a complete waste of time & rob k is right at least 5% of our fuel now has it mixed in which most lorries cope with but you start upping the % firstly your night heaters will start playing up and your on your way to spending fortunes. As Mark says you get bugs growing in it which if you buy in bulk & don’t turn the fuel round quickly these bugs breed & before you know it its in your fuel tanks on your lorries & its tanks off, fuel lines need purging, fuel pumps usually get ruined by it, its the biggest mother ■■■■■■■ nightmare you’ll have seen. It happened at the yard I park in his fleet of 12 trucks mostly MANs was completely out of action for weeks on & off & he’s even having aggro now as the cold nights draw in. It cost him 10’s of thousands & was a massive mistake on his part for listening to the goons who sell the ■■■■.
Rob, well I never, I’d do the same as you, especially with a small diesel in a car, far less BTUs in biocrap, ergo less performance and worse economy, what’s the point of the diesel car then? Typical government interference making a pigs ear of things, you can guarantee it wasn’t the oil company’s idea, they make money from extracting dead dinosaur juice from the ground, not from growing fields of hayfever inducing yellow crap
John, you’re spot on too, diesel is not just pulled from the ground, the refining process adds many additives which are there to lubricate the fuel system, provide protection from the cold to avoid gelling etc, chip fat has none of this and dilutes the additives in the diesel, after a while you end up just like your mate
fly sheet:
Do yourself a favour & leave the [zb] alone brookie its a complete waste of time & rob k is right at least 5% of our fuel now has it mixed in which most lorries cope with but you start upping the % firstly your night heaters will start playing up and your on your way to spending fortunes. As Mark says you get bugs growing in it which if you buy in bulk & don’t turn the fuel round quickly these bugs breed & before you know it its in your fuel tanks on your lorries & its tanks off, fuel lines need purging, fuel pumps usually get ruined by it, its the biggest mother [zb] nightmare you’ll have seen. It happened at the yard I park in his fleet of 12 trucks mostly MANs was completely out of action for weeks on & off & he’s even having aggro now as the cold nights draw in. It cost him 10’s of thousands & was a massive mistake on his part for listening to the goons who sell the [zb].
Fly sheet
point taken fly sheet! As for me, I’m off to the kitchen to cook some chips… I just wonder if there will be any opposition to the adding of more bio to diesel?
fly sheet:
Do yourself a favour & leave the [zb] alone brookie its a complete waste of time & rob k is right at least 5% of our fuel now has it mixed in which most lorries cope with but you start upping the % firstly your night heaters will start playing up and your on your way to spending fortunes. As Mark says you get bugs growing in it which if you buy in bulk & don’t turn the fuel round quickly these bugs breed & before you know it its in your fuel tanks on your lorries & its tanks off, fuel lines need purging, fuel pumps usually get ruined by it, its the biggest mother [zb] nightmare you’ll have seen. It happened at the yard I park in his fleet of 12 trucks mostly MANs was completely out of action for weeks on & off & he’s even having aggro now as the cold nights draw in. It cost him 10’s of thousands & was a massive mistake on his part for listening to the goons who sell the [zb].
Fly sheet
point taken fly sheet! As for me, I’m off to the kitchen to cook some chips… I just wonder if there will be any opposition to the adding of more bio to diesel?
thanks for your comments guys,
regards,
Mark.
Unlikely. The average Joe won’t care. All they want is diesel for their car/truck as cheap as possible and that’s what they’ll get. Ultimately though, increasing the bio-diesel content in normal pump diesel will make diesel vehicles even more unreliable and the garages will be rubbing their hands with glee at all the extra ££££££ they’re gonna make replacing gunged up injectors when the warranty runs out.
My lot run about 800 trucks (mainly Scania at the mo) oldest being the odd Y reg up to 09. All are run on (i think) a 70/30 diesel/bio mix. When we first changed to it, all the wagons had to have the filters changed after 1000ks and then again after 2000ks. Consumption is no better but the power loss was noticable on a 220hp Scania rigid. My 530hp Actros is ■■■■’ing gutless now, pulls like a 400…no,make that a 240! It smokes like a trooper too
I have been away from the site for some time now, in that time i find myself working as a transport manager for such an oil collection firm.
We collect all the waste oil from large Multi-National concerns right down to the small cafe arrangements. This oil is then refined to make bio diesel. There are varying grades of refinery for various fuel specs, the majority of the issues in crap within the system come from purchasing of cheap, bad refined, often tax avoided bio fuel.
The varied price is crazy too as the ppl of refined soya and ■■■■ oil fluctuates along with the purchase price of the clean fresh stock - which is all imported these days.
I’m not sure on the ages of our local busses etc running on it, what engines are you running with it?
