switchlogic:
robbo99.:
BoJo looking like a winner, Raab & McVey proposing to shut down the zoo for the time it takes to get a no deal through. If nothing else that would put the arrogant, back stabbing, non democratic, anti no deal & remoaner merchants in their place.
Yup a stroke of ‘genius’, put the ‘non democratic’ remainers in their place by suspending democracy. Welcome to the banana republic that is the UK
Democracy was suspended the moment they ignored the results of the democratic referendum to leave the EU.
How on earth can you think that any of those [zb]wits are better than any of the others is s mystery to me. The whole political system is nothing more than a farce.
Grumpy Dad:
Franglais to be totally honest, I couldn’t give a flying fig about all this now, it’s a total and utter farce made worse by people complain about the fairness or lack of it in proceedings.
Just ask yourself wether it would be fair and non biased for a remainder to vote for a leader of the opposition ?
Bearing in mind that there’s a greater percentage of remaining Tory party members than leavers who could quite easily damage the vote when it’s finally whittled down to 2.
Would you like to revise this post?
newmercman:
Democracy was suspended the moment they ignored the results of the democratic referendum to leave the EU.
+1…And there it is. 
…Again!
The main point and detail which makes any debate and argument on the subject totally pointless.
(But is constantly revived and done to death by those who did not get their own way. 
)
robroy:
newmercman:
Democracy was suspended the moment they ignored the results of the democratic referendum to leave the EU.
+1…And there it is. …Again!
The main point and detail which makes any debate and argument on the subject totally pointless.
(But is constantly revived and done to death by those who did not get their own way. )
The cries of the result being unjust would be non existent if they’d have won, but they didn’t so we must continue to listen to the pathetic bleating for some time yet.
As an aside…
There are 9 (NINE!!!) people, that think Esther McVey would have made a good Prime Minister…
Let that sink in for a minute…
Darkside:
As an aside…
There are 9 (NINE!!!) people, that think Esther McVey would have made a good Prime Minister…
Let that sink in for a minute…
The in house voting at this stage doesn’t really stand for anything, last time this happened and was seen all the way through was when Cameron won the leadership, the first 2 stages he wasn’t in the top 3 and Micheal Portillo was looking favourite.
This time it’s not only who can regain credibility for the party but who will bring closure to Brexit wether it’s a no deal or an appeasing take it up the arris for years to come deal.
newmercman:
switchlogic:
robbo99.:
BoJo looking like a winner, Raab & McVey proposing to shut down the zoo for the time it takes to get a no deal through. If nothing else that would put the arrogant, back stabbing, non democratic, anti no deal & remoaner merchants in their place.
Yup a stroke of ‘genius’, put the ‘non democratic’ remainers in their place by suspending democracy. Welcome to the banana republic that is the UK
Democracy was suspended the moment they ignored the results of the democratic referendum to leave the EU.
How on earth can you think that any of those [zb]wits are better than any of the others is s mystery to me. The whole political system is nothing more than a farce.
Let’s be fair, you can’t polish a turd, a turd will be voted in come what may!
robbo99.:
newmercman:
switchlogic:
robbo99.:
BoJo looking like a winner, Raab & McVey proposing to shut down the zoo for the time it takes to get a no deal through. If nothing else that would put the arrogant, back stabbing, non democratic, anti no deal & remoaner merchants in their place.
Yup a stroke of ‘genius’, put the ‘non democratic’ remainers in their place by suspending democracy. Welcome to the banana republic that is the UK
Democracy was suspended the moment they ignored the results of the democratic referendum to leave the EU.
How on earth can you think that any of those [zb]wits are better than any of the others is s mystery to me. The whole political system is nothing more than a farce.
Let’s be fair, you can’t polish a turd, a turd will be voted in come what may!
You can’t polish a turd, but you can roll it glitter
robbo99.:
newmercman:
Democracy was suspended the moment they ignored the results of the democratic referendum to leave the EU.
How on earth can you think that any of those [zb]wits are better than any of the others is s mystery to me. The whole political system is nothing more than a farce.
Let’s be fair, you can’t polish a turd, a turd will be voted in come what may!
Ignoring Cameron’s bs referendum is a double edged sword.When the real issue is and will become increasingly so for future generations,that no one,including MP’s,has the right to vote a de Facto Nation State out of existence and into Federal vassalage.Nor does the head of state have the right to sign the nation’s sovereignty away in the form of assent to any such vote.
Grumpy Dad:
Franglais:
Grumpy Dad:
Franglais to be totally honest, I couldn’t give a flying fig about all this now, it’s a total and utter farce made worse by people complain about the fairness or lack of it in proceedings.
Just ask yourself wether it would be fair and non biased for a remainder to vote for a leader of the opposition ?
Bearing in mind that there’s a greater percentage of remaining Tory party members than leavers who could quite easily damage the vote when it’s finally whittled down to 2.
Would you like to revise this post?
Not particularly.
So, you think people complaining about lack of fairness make things worse?
And, think we should question fairness?
And
Why “damage the vote”? Do you mean only one type of candidate is suitable? Should only one sort of the already small group of possible voters (Tory members) get a vote?
@Franglais
When a general election comes around, we all get the chance to vote for the PARTY we believe can fulfil the day to day agendas that affect us, wether is social housing, employment, interest rates, NMW increases, pensions the list is endless.
Each party is made up of mp’s from various constituencies again voted in by the public who they believe can do the best for their individual communities.
Some of the public become so passionate about a certain party wether it’s they’ve always delivered or nepotism, and they join the party giving them certain member privileges, one of these is being allowed to vote for the person they believe is best to lead the party.
How is it fair ( yes that word again ) to allow staunch labour supporters to vote for the leader of an opposition party ?
The problem we have here is that, today we see the Tory party in turmoil, Brexit is a mess, because it’s been handled incorrectly, and the remainers see everything as unfair.
Within the Tory party leadership candidates there’s some who will fail to deliver a Brexit without tying us to EU legislation and financial penalties for decades, and there’s BoJo who is leaning towards a no deal exit.
BoJo was lucky enough to gain 114 votes, well ahead of second place who only managed 40, but the voters who cast their votes on the losers, get the chance to vote again and if they follow their instincts it won’t be for BoJo.
Look back at the last time this happened ( not May ) , when Cameron gained leadership, the first 2 stages he wasn’t in the top 3 and Portillo looked favourite, but Cameron wiped the floor.
There’s a lot of public Tory party members who wish to remain, and its those who will choose the new leader of their party, it just so happens it’s at a time when the Tories are in power.
It’s not that it’s unfair to the remainers or opposition party members, it’s politics and it’s how it’s done in a fair and just way.
Franglais:
Why “damage the vote”? Do you mean only one type of candidate is suitable? Should only one sort of the already small group of possible voters (Tory members) get a vote?
Strange how we hear no complaints by remainers regarding Heath,Thatcher and Major etc being imposed on the country under exactly the same system.Like the referendum vote it’s obviously only ok if it’s ( perceived as being ) in the EU’s favour.
Dunno why everyone’s so enchanted, or wary, of Johnson.
Till 5 minutes ago he was a died in the wool EU cheerleader, wants amnesty for illegal immigrants, this winded candle is no more likely to deliver a meaningful Brexit than any other Tory contesting this present event.
I hope in some ways they do ruin Brexit, that’ll put the final nails into the Tory coffin and we can start to sort out our political system, which is as said many times here, a complete proven farce now.
Even if we do leave, Italy is likely to default and the euro crashes, it may happen so quickly we will still be in and liable for picking up the EU bankruptcy costs.
The irony of all this is that Labour should be wiping the floor with the Tories now, if Corbyn had grown a pair and stayed true to his anti EU beliefs and championed Brexit, he could have moved Labour to its old stomping ground of the party of the British working class and all that entails, bringing in huge swathes of the working classes who have been deserted by Labour and who have learned the hard way over the last decades what the Tory party thinks of them too, there would have been no Brexit Party because Corbyn would have sewn the Brexit movement up when it became apparent (two days after the May’s appointment) that the Tories had no intention of honouring the leave vote.
Unfortunately, the Labour party is lacking in genuine working class supporting MP’s, when Dennis Skinner retires will they have a single one left, and the Tories have but a handful of genuine conservative MP’s, none of which are standing for election as leader.
Thank the good lord Farage has chucked his BP spanner in the works, you’ve got to hand it to the bugger he has impeccable timing.
Interesting developments at Peterborough too, some bod has been boasting (now deleted) on a closed faceache group that he burned a thousand BP ballots, old bill investigating…‘nothing to see here move along now’ should be the official verdict about 30 seconds before they start.
Grumpy Dad:
we all get the chance to vote for the PARTY
No, its the prospective MP we vote for.
Look at Chuka Umunna: he stays MP for although he has changed parties. Unusual but far from unique.
Maybe it used to be otherwise, when cabinets were stronger, and PMs less so, but a PM is a powerful figure. Some say they would vote Labour if it had a different leader. Some are saying theyll leave the Tories if Johnson chosen. {And this morning it is reported (BBC 06hr00 news) that the whips may want only one name to go forward for selection by the members, Johnson or no-one.} A change of PM mid term, is less than democratic. If it was only a party leader being voted on then fine, but it isnt, and it`s disingenuous to pretend otherwise.
Grumpy Dad:
How is it fair ( yes that word again )
“Fair”, good keep discussing fairness, please don`t repeat:
Grumpy Dad:
made worse by people who complain about the fairness or lack of it in proceedings.
,
Grumpy Dad:
It’s not that it’s unfair to the remainers or opposition party members, it’s politics and it’s how it’s done in a fair and just way.
It is how its done, and has been done for ages, that does not make it fair nor just.
Carryfast:
Franglais:
Why “damage the vote”? Do you mean only one type of candidate is suitable? Should only one sort of the already small group of possible voters (Tory members) get a vote?
Strange how we hear no complaints by remainers regarding Heath,Thatcher and Major etc being imposed on the country under exactly the same system.Like the referendum vote it’s obviously only ok if it’s ( perceived as being ) in the EU’s favour.
OK. Mid-term changes of PM, (apart from death maybe?), are wrong and unfair.
Heath, Thatcher, Major, and Blair,Brown. All wrong not to trigger a GE.
Franglais:
Grumpy Dad:
we all get the chance to vote for the PARTY
No, its the prospective MP we vote for.
Look at Chuka Umunna: he stays MP for although he has changed parties. Unusual but far from unique.
Maybe it used to be otherwise, when cabinets were stronger, and PMs less so, but a PM is a powerful figure. Some say they would vote Labour if it had a different leader. Some are saying theyll leave the Tories if Johnson chosen. {And this morning it is reported (BBC 06hr00 news) that the whips may want only one name to go forward for selection by the members, Johnson or no-one.} A change of PM mid term, is less than democratic. If it was only a party leader being voted on then fine, but it isnt, and it`s disingenuous to pretend otherwise.
Grumpy Dad:
How is it fair ( yes that word again )
“Fair”, good keep discussing fairness, please don`t repeat:
Grumpy Dad:
made worse by people who complain about the fairness or lack of it in proceedings.
,
Grumpy Dad:
It’s not that it’s unfair to the remainers or opposition party members, it’s politics and it’s how it’s done in a fair and just way.
It is how its done, and has been done for ages, that does not make it fair nor just.
No, its the prospective MP we vote for.
No in a General Election you get 2 papers one is for your local MP the other is for the PARTY
My dad has voted Labour all his adult life, but since Corbyn has been leader he refuses to vote for them in a General Election, he continues to vote for them in local.
Staunch Labour Alistair Campbell the spin doctor for Blair was booted for voting Lib - dem because he cannot vote for Corbyn.
FAIRNESS :- ever since the Brexit result came in, the remainers have thrown their arms in the air and claimed the unfairness of it. Never have I heard a remainer defend the term DEMOCRATIC.
2004 at the resigning of the Treaty of Rome is was agreed by all leaders that referendums would be given to the people, but had to take place before the end of a 2 year period, Jack Straw informed Britain we would have ours late 2006, it was later announced by the treacherous murdering ■■■■ Blair it would be postponed indefinitely —— please explain the fairness of that decision.
that does NOT make it fair
No it’s only unfair because you disagree with how it’s done, it’s time it was accepted by the remainders the result isn’t going to change and neither are the proceeding of how party leaders are elected
Grumpy Dad:
Franglais:
Grumpy Dad:
we all get the chance to vote for the PARTY
No, its the prospective MP we vote for.
Look at Chuka Umunna: he stays MP for although he has changed parties. Unusual but far from unique.
Maybe it used to be otherwise, when cabinets were stronger, and PMs less so, but a PM is a powerful figure. Some say they would vote Labour if it had a different leader. Some are saying theyll leave the Tories if Johnson chosen. {And this morning it is reported (BBC 06hr00 news) that the whips may want only one name to go forward for selection by the members, Johnson or no-one.} A change of PM mid term, is less than democratic. If it was only a party leader being voted on then fine, but it isnt, and it`s disingenuous to pretend otherwise.
Grumpy Dad:
How is it fair ( yes that word again )
“Fair”, good keep discussing fairness, please don`t repeat:
Grumpy Dad:
made worse by people who complain about the fairness or lack of it in proceedings.
,
Grumpy Dad:
It’s not that it’s unfair to the remainers or opposition party members, it’s politics and it’s how it’s done in a fair and just way.
It is how its done, and has been done for ages, that does not make it fair nor just.
No, its the prospective MP we vote for.
No in a General Election you get 2 papers one is for your local MP the other is for the PARTY
My dad has voted Labour all his adult life, but since Corbyn has been leader he refuses to vote for them in a General Election, he continues to vote for them in local.
Staunch Labour Alistair Campbell the spin doctor for Blair was booted for voting Lib - dem because he cannot vote for Corbyn.
FAIRNESS :- ever since the Brexit result came in, the remainers have thrown their arms in the air and claimed the unfairness of it. Never have I heard a remainer defend the term DEMOCRATIC.
2004 at the resigning of the Treaty of Rome is was agreed by all leaders that referendums would be given to the people, but had to take place before the end of a 2 year period, Jack Straw informed Britain we would have ours late 2006, it was later announced by the treacherous murdering [zb] Blair it would be postponed indefinitely —— please explain the fairness of that decision.
that does NOT make it fair
No it’s only unfair because you disagree with how it’s done, it’s time it was accepted by the remainders the result isn’t going to change and neither are the proceeding of how party leaders are elected
A UK General Election may or may not be held at the same time as a Local Election.
In a General Election you get one polling paper. You get to put one cross against one candidates name. The candidate may be associated with a party. After election the elected candidate can, as weve seen, change parties. I maintain that isn`t fair.
A party equally can change leader mid-term. In this case the Tories. I think that is unfair. I think it unfair whichever party it applies to.
Lets look at your father since youve introduced him:
He likes Labour, but not Corbyn.
Imagine if he had voted for a “Smith” led Labour party who won. We have “Smith” as PM. Now if as a result of internal party disputes Corbyn gets voted in as new party leader, mid-term and becomes PM, would your Dad think that fair? Would you? I wouldn`t.
“No it’s only unfair because you disagree with how it’s done, it’s time it was accepted by the remainders the result isn’t going to change and neither are the proceeding of how party leaders are elected”
Yes, I think its unfair because of how it`s done.
Here you are again telling us to to accept unfairness.
Franglais I really can’t be bothered, this is going around in circles, you’ll never accept that a process that’s been in place since politics began in Britain is fair.
The reality is Britain is under Tory rule, they are set to deliver Brexit regardless this could tie us to the EU for decades which still wouldn’t satisfy the remainers, there’s only one candidate that will deliver a complete no ties no deal Brexit, and at the moment there’s 8 others that will tie us to it in one form or another.
But as I’ve posted the selections at this stage are nothing to go by, Portillo was whitewashed by Cameron and he wasn’t even in the top 3 in the first 2 stages.
Gove is a complete backstabbing thundercnut and if elected will show his true colours and ■■■■ up to the EU.
Hunt a remainer who would back a second referendum although a supposed reborn again leaver
Javid a remainer
Raab the only other leaver
There’s a 50/50 chance you’ll get your wish and a GE is called, it’s time that democracy is used and is upheld, only the remainers see it as a hurdle.
Im done with this topic now, I see it as a pointless exercise.
Grumpy Dad:
Franglais I really can’t be bothered, this is going around in circles, you’ll never accept that a process that’s been in place since politics began in Britain is fair
The length of existence of a system is no measure of its fairness.
Because we have had an unelected second house for centuries it is “fair”? No.
Neither is the current change of PM mid-term.
What was acceptable when our MPs disappeared in a horse drawn carriage to go to Westminster is no longer good enough.
Grumpy Dad:
The reality is Britain is under Tory rule,
Not quite so.
We are, or should be, under the rule of Parliament. The Tories winning the largest number of seats *doesnt* mean they become temporary dictators`. Parliament is Sovereign not a Government.
It is very dangerous to have some prospective PMs even talking of proroguing Parliament to get through one particular issue.
Grumpy Dad:
but it’s time that democracy was used
Grumpy Dad:
one candidate that will deliver a complete no ties no deal Brexit
Remember that although the Referendum was a simple “In / Out” choice, the campaign by Leave about better deals with the EU etc. A “no ties, no deal Brexit”, was hardly mentioned at the time. Where is YOUR democracy here?
A vote based on lies is hardly democratic nor fair, and NO, I wont shut up about it.