wake up about 2pm, go to work for 10 pm finish that job at 3am, get home for 4am, sleep till 10am, start shift at 12 noon then finish 1am the following day
now i did that perfectly fine…what would you say to that?
Well done
I dont know why you are taking everything I say so seriously chill winston not easy to put things accross tongue in cheek on here, I can and do sleep 4-6 hours and go to work. I am knackered from it though and in a bad mood from the off
OllieNotts:
It was illegal to walk down the m6 last time I checked
And I didn’t spit my dummy out I gave em plenty of notice before I walked and told them getting a train home was an option before truck was delayed again.
You claim to sleep for 2 hours between shifts and tell me I talk crap LOL
well get in a taxi and bill them for it ffs
and yes so what if i only had 2 hours sleep, i still had my legally required 9 hours between shifts
but as you dont seem to have read i dont sleep much, never have done.
you seem to have balls to say no im going home so why couldnt u just kip in the truck once it was fixed and after you told them that your only driving the truck back to the yard and not doing another days work.
They wanted lorry back on the road, if I wasnt gonna come back to work they were sending someone to fetch it and me and then expected me to get a lift back unpaid. Maybe I should of let em but I am a militant stuborn sod at times and the way they spoke to me, dealt with it and gave no [zb] what so ever I decided to return the favour and will do it again when someone speaks to or treats me like that
well you should have said to them that you wernt putting it back on the road to do a full shift but returning the truck to the yard so somebody else could do it, if they wernt happy with that answer then you walk, you dont just walk you give them a choice first then you phone the agency and if they dont back you up sod them.
wake up about 2pm, go to work for 10 pm finish that job at 3am, get home for 4am, sleep till 10am, start shift at 12 noon then finish 1am the following day
now i did that perfectly fine…what would you say to that?
Well done
I dont know why you are taking everything I say so seriously chill winston not easy to put things accross tongue in cheek on here, I can and do sleep 4-6 hours and go to work. I am knackered from it though and in a bad mood from the off
well you really are in the wrong job then, the majority of drivers dont sleep well and 4-6 hours is the norm then onto a full shift.
And I will learn from this experience, next time I will have more of an idea what to offer etc. I am not gonna keep going on about this now I’m bored of checking it for replies
I never understood how my old man gets by on such little sleep but he says you just get used to it as you get older, good for some and not easy for others. Just because I dont like getting 4 hours sleep doesnt mean I am in the wrong job nor does refusing to sit with the lorry and being out 20 bloody hours this is/was an extreme case I have never come across before and although everyone has a story to tell about a certain situation I doubt it will happen again soon, or indeed regular.
How do you know the majority of drivers dont sleep well? You know the majority of HGV drivers in UK then?
I’ve never been able to get by on less than 8 hours sleep in 24 - even when I worked nights in my late teens
I can manage to do 7 hours sleep a night and then another hour in the truck about half way through a shift - still 8 in 24 though
The original question was “Am I being told to break the law”
Answer…NO!!
What you were asked to do was perfectly legal…if not ethical.
Options were there but you chose not to use them, you just expected the company to drop everything and sort out your problem.
Now I don’t know the company involved, but if they have multiple depots and use agency drivers I am guessing they aint that small. In which case the gaffer (or TM or Planner) will probably be looking after 20, 30 or more motors and drivers.
Henrys cat:
Have read this thread with interest, and the jist I get is, technically they weren’t asking you to do something illegal, maybe not good practice but in the eyes of the law not illegal. The sticking point is access to a bunk, but the only reference I can find is about splitting the rest when the truck needs to be moved on/off a ferry during a daily rest period.
And if you are going to take the rest period in the vehicle you must have access to suitable sleeping facilities. Taking the rest not in the vehicle, which was the suggestion the OP received there is no such requirement.
The thing in this thread I find strange is the unfounded assumption that he might have had to do another 15 hour shift the next day, I see nothing that says the company even suggested that and at no point does it appear the OP questioned what they expected him to do the next day. Personally I would have taken the rest period, it was legal to do so and therefore he wasn’t been asked to break the rules, then driven it back to the yard. It was only a few hours drive as far as I can see and then I would have booked off and gone home. The company get the vehicle back, the job hasn’t been [zb]'d up by walking off it, a long shift, night out money and then more pay the next day, with the agency I used to work for it would have been 8 hours guaranteed minimum, so not to bad cash wise. I’m sure at least a little power nap during the 9 hours would be more than possible, through boredom if nothing else. On returning to the yard, if they wanted you to go out again, politely pointing out you had not slept for X amount of hours and did they really want you to continue driving one of their vehicles may have solved any problems, if not then that would be the time to walk off the job.
Henrys cat:
Have read this thread with interest, and the jist I get is, technically they weren’t asking you to do something illegal, maybe not good practice but in the eyes of the law not illegal. The sticking point is access to a bunk, but the only reference I can find is about splitting the rest when the truck needs to be moved on/off a ferry during a daily rest period.
And if you are going to take the rest period in the vehicle you must have access to suitable sleeping facilities. Taking the rest not in the vehicle, which was the suggestion the OP received there is no such requirement.
The thing in this thread I find strange is the unfounded assumption that he might have had to do another 15 hour shift the next day, I see nothing that says the company even suggested that and at no point does it appear the OP questioned what they expected him to do the next day. Personally I would have taken the rest period, it was legal to do so and therefore he wasn’t been asked to break the rules, then driven it back to the yard. It was only a few hours drive as far as I can see and then I would have booked off and gone home. The company get the vehicle back, the job hasn’t been [zb]'d up by walking off it, a long shift, night out money and then more pay the next day, with the agency I used to work for it would have been 8 hours guaranteed minimum, so not to bad cash wise. I’m sure at least a little power nap during the 9 hours would be more than possible, through boredom if nothing else. On returning to the yard, if they wanted you to go out again, politely pointing out you had not slept for X amount of hours and did they really want you to continue driving one of their vehicles may have solved any problems, if not then that would be the time to walk off the job.
Oh come on Neil, get in the real world. I’d have thought better from you, especially as you’ve done the agency game.
You really think that it’d be as simple as you make out? I’d bet my house on it that there’d be no such agreement with the office that he comes back to the yard after his 9 off. They’d argue that he’s 2 mins from his next drop and then only 30-60 mins from his others in Wales so best to crack on with those instead of [zb]ing up the job further by driving 2 hours back to Belle Aux Park. Furthermore, even if he did decide to return straight back to the yard after his time off, you really think that he’d still get paid? There’s little chance of that as the company will just argue the case as above and refuse to pay on the grounds that they’ve had to hire in another unit/driver to complete the run.
Rob K:
You really think that it’d be as simple as you make out?
Well it would have been that simple in my case because that is what I would have done. They had already said wait, have rest period and then bring it back so where’s the problem?
I actually had something similar when I was on agency and that is what I did and I got paid and continued to work for the company afterwards, in fact I work full time for them now so what I said I would do was based on experiencing a similar situation. It was all sorted out by discussion regarding time and money before any rash decisions were made and I ended up earning nicely from it. If I had walked off the job I would not have the nice easy job I have now.
Rob K:
You really think that it’d be as simple as you make out?
Well it would have been that simple in my case because that is what I would have done. They had already said wait, have rest period and then bring it back so where’s the problem?
I actually had something similar when I was on agency and that is what I did and I got paid and continued to work for the company afterwards, in fact I work full time for them now so what I said I would do was based on experiencing a similar situation. It was all sorted out by discussion regarding time and money before any rash decisions were made and I ended up earning nicely from it. If I had walked off the job I would not have the nice easy job I have now.
Yes but this is DHL who you are on about who are, in general, going to be far more organised than some two bit outfit with only a couple of trucks. DHL are likely to have a spare truck so saying to you to just come straight back to the yard after your 9 off probably isn’t going to inconvenience them too much. When it’s a small outfit with only a handful of customers (I’m guessing here, I don’t know, but that’s the impression I get) then they’ve got to weigh up keeping driver happy vs. possibly losing customer. Anyway, they still had more than enough time to sort something out imho rather than hanging the driver out to dry like they did and I really don’t agree with all the “put up and shut up” comments in this thread.
And as regards to pulling me out the office bod told me I’d be pulled out by a passing driver once I got to the garage as that’s the norm. The tm who took a dislike to me for not filling in paperwork told me I’ll stay there. Then he failed to tell the pm manager till 4pm when he left which afternoon guy wasn’t happy about as he said himself he should of been told earlier so he could sort something out. I couldn’t care any less that so many would do it I acted on it at the time and It’s done now I’m working tomorrow, don’t think I’ll say where though and off Friday to look after my girl so been a good week really
ROG:
I’ve mentioned this twice on this thread but no-one has commented on it…
How many on here could get a full nights kip then be up for a few hours and then get another full kip in readiness for a full or part time shift
as a one off, i reckon most on here could and would do it if something unexpected happened
the way i read it, he started at 5, pulled his card at 1300, waited around till 1700,then went home when he could have stayed there and had a few hours kip till 2200,started a new card and been finished in less than 3 hours
Coffeeholic:
And if you are going to take the rest period in the vehicle you must have access to suitable sleeping facilities. Taking the rest not in the vehicle, which was the suggestion the OP received there is no such requirement.
You have got to be joking? The requirement is if you are away from base and taking rest in the vehicle that you must have access to a bunk or couchette or some such wording. And now, miracoulously, you’re suggesting he can decide that although he’s away from base with the vehicle he can leave it and have a rest without the vehicle, a bunk, couch or whatever nonsense. Infact suggesting a nap in the waiting room will suffice. Thats fine if you’re the type of guy who doesn’t need much sleep.
Now follow that logic through to a guy in a day cab who(for example purpose) decides he can do nights out and doesn’t want to sleep but will stay outside the cab and sit on the grass verge for 9 hours and kick off again,can he say he wasn’t with the vehickle? so he didnt need a bunk, couch or whatever? i do’t think so.
‘daily rest period’ means the daily period during which a
driver may freely dispose of his time
How does that pan out with having to wait for a broken down truck when he really wants to go home and not do a 20 hour stint?
Where a driver chooses to do this, daily rest periods and
duced weekly rest periods away from base may be taken in a
hicle, as long as it has suitable sleeping facilities for each
ver and the vehicle is stationary.
He doesn’t want to do it.Hows it looking now?
A transport undertaking shall organise the work of
drivers referred to in paragraph 1 in such a way that the
drivers are able to comply with Regulation (EEC) No 3821/85
and Chapter II of this Regulation. The transport undertaking
shall properly instruct the driver and shall make regular
checks to ensure that Regulation (EEC) No 3821/85 and
Chapter II of this Regulation are complied with.
They’ve left the problem of him getting a rest down to him, asking him to just sit with it , i wouldn’t describe that by a long chalk as “properley instructing” . Eve in any remote spirit of the law.
It’s one thing for you to say ‘i’d sit with it’, thats fine. Its another thing for the OP to say’ i don’t want to’ , thats fine too. Horses for courses. But don’t try to say its remoteley legal or morally right to do or require that, it certainley isn’t.
Rob K:
Yes but this is DHL who you are on about who are, in general, going to be far more organised than some two bit outfit with only a couple of trucks.
And have just been fined 60 or 80 grand for not instructing drivers properley and allowing a dangerous culture to develop in their workplace.
Infact , according to the reports not only did they know about the slapdash attitude to saftey, they also did nothing about it. Anyway, as you say, they’re more organised than some two bit outfit ?!!! How bad does it have to get, and how bad is a two bit outfit ?
Well the loyalty from some employers is non existent these days, they will happily let you run bent and some even will ask you in a round a bout way to do this, but if you get found by the authorities they will deny all knowledge of it and you would be on your own,
From my past experience when i did euro for one company Went out to Amsterdam (Schiphol) started around 4pm @ the depot after collecting from southhall got to dover around 11pm -12am it was really foggy ended up being stuck a dover port for several hours as the ferries where off ,even though i became tired waiting i could only rest my eyes due to the noise and the not knowing when they were gonna call us to board the ferry, eventually got on the ferry,which took longer to cross to Calais, by the time i got to Antwerp it was rush hour,and daylight lol,so probably around 6am got to the border with the Netherlands meer on the A1/E19 i was out of hours, so i rang the office told them my location(which they knew as vehicle was tracked) all i got was that i couldn’t park up with the load i was carrying and that i would have to go to the delivery address with it, so after covering my ■■■ (tacho wise) i dropped the stuff off ,got kept waiting for the paper work, plus to see if there was a return load,jokers, then asked me to drive to Roermond to pick up a load for Vauxhall Ellesmere port , did that too, got back to into belgie and parked up had 11hrs off and completed the mission, did i get any loyalty in return? no
theres not a chance of that happening to me again the most important thing in any truck is the driver not the load
Rob K:
Yes but this is DHL who you are on about who are, in general, going to be far more organised than some two bit outfit with only a couple of trucks.
And have just been fined 60 or 80 grand for not instructing drivers properley and allowing a dangerous culture to develop in their workplace.
Infact , according to the reports not only did they know about the slapdash attitude to saftey, they also did nothing about it. Anyway, as you say, they’re more organised than some two bit outfit ?!!! How bad does it have to get, and how bad is a two bit outfit ?
Well, you know the point I was trying to get at Mike! ‘Organised’ wasn’t really the word I was looking for, but fact is that large logistics places with a ton of motors and drivers on their hands are gonna be far less worried about bringing a driver back when a breakdown happens and he’s out of hours than some two bit company with only a couple of trucks and a handful of customers.
Coffeeholic:
And if you are going to take the rest period in the vehicle you must have access to suitable sleeping facilities. Taking the rest not in the vehicle, which was the suggestion the OP received there is no such requirement.
You have got to be joking? The requirement is if you are away from base and taking rest in the vehicle that you must have access to a bunk or couchette or some such wording.
Exactly, but he wouldn’t have been taking his rest in the vehicle, in fact wouldn’t even have access to the vehicle, so the bit about having access to suitable sleeping for daily rest or reduced weekly rest if taking it in a vehicle won’t be an issue. When you are not taking the rest in the vehicle the regulations do not say anything about having a bed available or even that you have to sleep, you are free to dispose of your time as you wish so if you choose not to sleep that is your free choice.
Coffeeholic:
but he wouldn’t have been taking his rest in the vehicle, in fact wouldn’t even have access to the vehicle, so the bit about having access to suitable sleeping for daily rest or reduced weekly rest if taking it in a vehicle won’t be an issue. When you are not taking the rest in the vehicle the regulations do not say anything about having a bed available or even that you have to sleep, you are free to dispose of your time as you wish so if you choose not to sleep that is your free choice
Does that mean that a driver can be caught out due to circumstances beyond their control when using a day cab and the company can turn around and say - sorry driver but we want you to book off when you finish todays shift and then book on when you start tommorows shift so that as a company we are not responsible for what you do on your rest period
OR - we don’t want you sleeping in our truck so what you do between booking off and booking back on is your problem
I’d have thought better from you, especially as you’ve done the agency game.
