When you have one of these 'back to back " rests, how is it different from say just a 69 hour ‘en bloc’ rest. Do you have to write a chart out or make a manul entry so that the two rests are seperate? Or maybe its assumed? Or maybe every weekly rest over 69 hours is assumed ‘back to back’?
Mike-C:
When you have one of these 'back to back " rests, how is it different from say just a 69 hour ‘en bloc’ rest. Do you have to write a chart out or make a manul entry so that the two rests are seperate? Or maybe its assumed? Or maybe every weekly rest over 69 hours is assumed ‘back to back’?
what are you trying to do two me i will never be able to anwer that one in my life time 
i would like to point out that the 69 hours bit is only in the vosa book and can not see it in the main regs
delboytwo:
what are you trying to do two me i will never be able to anwer that one in my life time
On a mission to make your missus leave ya !!!
the wife is PHSL
one thing i will say would vosa see the 69 hours rest as compensation for a previous reduced rest
I would say how it was perceived would depend on other circumstances.
If part of the rest was the only rest period for one, or both of the weeks then I would say it would be seen as back to back.
If it wasn’t the only rest period for one, or both of the weeks then it could be taken to be a rest period plus compensation for one or more reduced rest periods.
If it wasn’t the only rest period for one, or both of the weeks and no compensation was due, it could just be a long rest period.
If it was long enough, more than 69 hours, then I guess it could be a 45 + 24 + compensation for a previous reduced rest.
There is no requirement to write anything on a chart or printout by way of explanation, but it wouldn’t hurt. If nothing else the fact you have written something would show VOSA you have a pretty good grasp of the lesser known parts of the regulations and may cause them to dig less deep.
I fail to see where this would be useful exept to change the assumption of which week a rest was in…
It says that a weekly can be in one week or another but not both but it does not say WHO should assume which so i’m going to say the driver
It says that at least 2 weekly rests must be taken in any 2 consecutive weeks
If the driver assumes this…
WR = Weekly Rest
Full WR assumed to be in previous week
reduced WR assumed to be in previous week
full WR assumed to be in previous week
69 hours WR - reduced for previous week AND full for following week
reduced WR assumed to be in following week
full WR assumed to be in following week
…and so on…
all I can see is that the ‘previous’ has been changed to the ‘following’
Is that it 
or have I missed something
It’s not the most useful feature of the regulations but it could prove handy on occasion, especially for agency drivers who may clock up extended periods between some jobs and would be able to take on shifts they would otherwise have to turn down if the option wasn’t available.
Week 1
Work 06:00 Monday - 09:00 Saturday
45-hour weekly rest counting for Week 1
Week 2
Resume work 06:00 Monday
Work until 18:00 Saturday
90-hour weekly rest, 45 hours counting for Week 2 and 45 hours counting for Week 3.
Week 3 resume work at 12:00 Wednesday
Because you have been able to count the 90 hours as two back to back weekly rest periods you now have until latest 12:00 Tuesday in Week 4 before you must begin another weekly rest period, as you have a rest period counting for week 3. If you didn’t have the option of counting the long rest as two, it would all count as the required rest period for Week 2 and therefore you would only be able to work until latest 23:59 Sunday in Week 3 before starting another weekly rest in order to meet the requirement of each fixed week having a weekly rest period.
Simples!!
Thanks Neil.
I was basing all my thoughts on a simple weekend weekly rest situation but when you put that senario in the post above I can now see it’s use 
So the best we can come up with for any practical use of these ‘back to back’ rules is to grab a few days three weeks down the line?
I thought the regs stated something along the lines of… a weekly rest can start in one week and finish in another but not be counted in both. And the UK advice is that if there is 144 hours either side of this weekly rest it can be counted in both!!! Couldn’t make it up eh?!!
Mike-C:
So the best we can come up with for any practical use of these ‘back to back’ rules is to grab a few days three weeks down the line?
I thought the regs stated something along the lines of… a weekly rest can start in one week and finish in another but not be counted in both. And the UK advice is that if there is 144 hours either side of this weekly rest it can be counted in both!!! Couldn’t make it up eh?!!
i was thinking of a way but thought i mite be laughed at for saying it
but here goes could you use it for paying back a reduced rest before the end of the third week
delboytwo:
but here goes could you use it for paying back a reduced rest before the end of the third week
You could, but the it wouldn’t be two back to back rest periods. It would be one rest period with compensation for a previous reduction attached.
That’s for a 69 hour rest, if it was longer you may be able to use it as two back to back plus compensation - 45 + 24 plus comp.
delboytwo:
Mike-C:
So the best we can come up with for any practical use of these ‘back to back’ rules is to grab a few days three weeks down the line?
I thought the regs stated something along the lines of… a weekly rest can start in one week and finish in another but not be counted in both. And the UK advice is that if there is 144 hours either side of this weekly rest it can be counted in both!!! Couldn’t make it up eh?!!i was thinking of a way but thought i mite be laughed at for saying it
but here goes could you use it for paying back a reduced rest before the end of the third week
Del, no laughing going on here. Personally i’ve learnt more in the last fortnight or so in this forum than i have on the last two tachograph courses i’ve been on !!
Anyway, you could use it to pay back reduced rest, but if you did it would be ‘attatched’ to a rest period, and not seperate of it?
If i was you i wouldn;t pay to much attention to this back to back nonsense, as really the point of my posting this about it, is that it indeed is a nonsense !!!
how would the rest play there part on a driver with
a Operators who utilise a cyclical shift pattern should take care that their shift patterns allow
for compliance with the rolling two-weekly requirements for weekly rest and compensation
how would that be a problem
delboytwo:
how would the rest play there part on a driver witha Operators who utilise a cyclical shift pattern should take care that their shift patterns allow
for compliance with the rolling two-weekly requirements for weekly rest and compensationhow would that be a problem
The first thing i can think of is someone who works five days one week and six days the next. Every third or fourth week compensation is going to be needed which is going to be out of synch with this 5 on, then 6 on pattern. Like its says, you would have to take care to see that you can get your compensations in.
delboytwo:
how would the rest play there part on a driver witha Operators who utilise a cyclical shift pattern should take care that their shift patterns allow
for compliance with the rolling two-weekly requirements for weekly rest and compensationhow would that be a problem
They have to make sure that each fixed week has a rest period attached to it.
It is possible that with the cyclical shift pattern a driver may end up having a week with no rest period. For example. A driver finishes work on a Sunday evening in week 1 and begin his weekly rest for the week 1. He resumes work on Wednesday morning in week 2 and works through to Monday evening in week 3, where he begins his next weekly rest. Week 2 doesn’t have a rest period in it and that is the sort of thing they need to guard against.
Mike-C:
The first thing i can think of is someone who works five days one week and six days the next. Every third or fourth week compensation is going to be needed which is going to be out of synch with this 5 on, then 6 on pattern. Like its says, you would have to take care to see that you can get your compensations in.
I do a 5 day, 6 day cycle and compensation isn’t a problem. At the end of our 5 day week we get on average 60 hours weekly rest - Friday evening through to Monday morning, and on our 6 day weeks we get around 40 hours weekly rest - Saturday afternoon/evening through to Monday morning.
It’s more of a problem for those operation who do a 4 on 4 off type of cycle, especially if the driver does the odd extra day at the end of his 4 on.
Coffeeholic:
Mike-C:
The first thing i can think of is someone who works five days one week and six days the next. Every third or fourth week compensation is going to be needed which is going to be out of synch with this 5 on, then 6 on pattern. Like its says, you would have to take care to see that you can get your compensations in.I do a 5 day, 6 day cycle and compensation isn’t a problem. At the end of our 5 day week we get on average 60 hours weekly rest - Friday evening through to Monday morning, and on our 6 day weeks we get around 40 hours weekly rest - Saturday afternoon/evening through to Monday morning.
It’s more of a problem for those operation who do a 4 on 4 off type of cycle, especially if the driver does the odd extra day at the end of his 4 on.
You’ve nailed it !!!
I have an interesting question and probably easily answered
if you a driver who go’s on holiday for two weeks and you start back wed when would the drivers rest be required to keep within the two consecutive weeks and would the wed be classed as the first day of the two weeks or would you have to take it back to mon
hi boys 
and an other one when you pay back a reduced rest do you have to put a note on the tacho or is it just excepted