…what were the tests like and minimum vehicle requirements? How much (if at all) easier was the class 1, 2 and the old class3 (what was a class3?) driving test back in the 1970’s? Did people learn in trucks without power steering then? I seem to remember an old training school by me that had an X reg volvo that used to pull a flat back trailer that I’m sure isn’t allowed these days. What sort of truck did you all learn in? Thanks in advance for your answers!!!
Warren T. Claim:
…what were the tests like and minimum vehicle requirements? How much (if at all) easier was the class 1, 2 and the old class3 (what was a class3?) driving test back in the 1970’s? Did people learn in trucks without power steering then? I seem to remember an old training school by me that had an X reg volvo that used to pull a flat back trailer that I’m sure isn’t allowed these days. What sort of truck did you all learn in? Thanks in advance for your answers!!!
I learned in a Ford “D” series artic that had an 8-speed range-change gearbox. This was coupled to a short single-axle urban flat trailer.
That was in 1979 and you could go straight to an artic on “HGV L” plates without the stepping stone approach used these days.
A ‘class 3’ was any two-axled rigid, with or without a trailer…
A ‘class 2’ was a multi-axled rigid, with or without a trailer…
A ‘class 1’ was an artic.
There was also a ‘class 4,’ which was a very small artic.
My neighbours used to run an old Bedford tk artic which was , I think, 10 tonnes. Would that of been a class 4?
Would a dray wagon be classed as a Class 4?
Most of them are only a 7.5 tonne tractor unit but obviously the plated weight will be higher, therefore requiring a C+E.
Warren T. Claim:
My neighbours used to run an old Bedford tk artic which was , I think, 10 tonnes. Would that of been a class 4?
That would have been a class one.
Every driver I ever met who has never taken a test agrees that the tests should be more realistic to real life. Laden vehicles, no rear windows and full length trailers.
I was fortunate in my RTITB training they used a Mercedes Benz with a 12 speed box and a proper 40 foot tandem axle trailer. The others were using an ex brewery TK Bedford with a single axle 24 foot trailer behind it.
The tests were very similar to today with a gear changing exercise thrown in, but even when I took my test it cost you almost a months wages.
The main differences were that you gained on the job training with another driver and a pair of HGV L Plates and that you could go straight in for the big one. I didn’t, as I was put through my class 3 rigid by my company training school, while I funded my class one myself later in the same year.
NikNik:
Would a dray wagon be classed as a Class 4?Most of them are only a 7.5 tonne tractor unit but obviously the plated weight will be higher, therefore requiring a C+E.
Hi NikNik no mate, you’re right that it would have been a class 1.
When you you say 7.5t tractor unit, that wouldn’t have been its true authorised laden weight, because the trailer. With such a vehicle combination, you’d have to count the authorised weight of the whole combination…
The way that this is done these days isn’t quite the same as it was back then. 
Warren T. Claim:
My neighbours used to run an old Bedford tk artic which was , I think, 10 tonnes. Would that of been a class 4?
Hi Warren, no mate ’ fraid not.
The vehicle I took my test in was the equivalent Ford (D 1000) to the Bedford TK that you mentioned, and was most definately a HGV1.
When I said that a HGV 4 was “very small,” I should have have written ’ extremely tiny.’
(Much smaller than a TK.)
Sorry if I confused you.
Try a Google picture search for a Scammell Scarab to see what I meant. 
Thanks for the answers. How long have range change boxes been in use for then? It’s hard to imagine 1970’s technology being reliable 
. What is the worst type of gearbox anyone has experienced?
dieseldave:
Warren T. Claim:
My neighbours used to run an old Bedford tk artic which was , I think, 10 tonnes. Would that of been a class 4?Hi Warren, no mate ’ fraid not.
The vehicle I took my test in was the equivalent Ford (D 1000) to the Bedford TK that you mentioned, and was most definately a HGV1.
When I said that a HGV 4 was “very small,” I should have have written ’ extremely tiny.’
(Much smaller than a TK.)
Ahhhh yes I know what your on about now, they had one of these Scammell’s on Salvage Squad a few years ago.
It was a funny thing, it was basically reminded me of a large Reliant Robin with a trailer on the back, hardly worth doing a test in one .
I think they said that they were mainly used for shunting however they did do some local deliveries.
From what I remember, there was not a seperate Wagon & drag test.
The HGV class 3s & 2s got the entitlement to pull a drag automatically - BUT I STAND TO BE CORRECTED on this point.
This caused an ‘interesting’ situation when the UK HGV classes were scrapped in favour of the EU LGV classes.
The old HGV classes of 2 & 3 now become LGV class C
The old HGV class 1 now becomes C+E
W&D is now C+E
Those that had the W&D entitlement now have a C+E with a restriction code which restricts them to W&Ds and they cannot drive ARTICS.
Now comes the really wierd and wonderful bit… someone with the old W&D entitlement can take a LGV C+E test in a W&D and get a full C+E which will allow them to drive ARTICs 
So, drive W&D without L plates (no need for anyone else to be in cab) to test centre, put on L plates. Pass C+E test & drive home without L plates OR, as before but fail test & drive home without L plates.
You will now realise why using the old terminology of HGV classes should not be used as they are different from the LGV ones.
I was told that only the old class 2 drivers were given the drawbar entitlement, again though I could be wrong 
.
I think you have hit the nail on the head there, I’ve never thought of that but ROG has basically showed that the DVLA has contradicted itself.
Now why should a pre 1997 driver only be allowed to be restricted to a ‘W+D’, yet a post 1997 driver can pass a test in a ‘W+D’ and be entitled to drive an artic that handles and is driven differently. Yet legally they can drive an artic. It just doesn’t make sense.
I have no problem of people doing the C+E courses in a ‘W+D’ but atleast take the restriction of pre 1997 drivers.
NikNik:
I have no problem of people doing the C+E courses in a ‘W+D’ but atleast take the restriction of pre 1997 drivers.
The safer alternative might be the reverse of your argument - remove the entitlement from those that have it as they have not taken a test to drive it 
ROG:
NikNik:
I have no problem of people doing the C+E courses in a ‘W+D’ but atleast take the restriction of pre 1997 drivers.The safer alternative might be the reverse of your argument - remove the entitlement from those that have it as they have not taken a test to drive it
But how many drivers would this affect?
I’d say for those who use it then they should be given a full Class 1 licence, but like the pre early 70’s when the TM would write a letter to the DVLA stating that this person drives etc etc. These should be given a licence.
Now if we went along that route then we could say that people who pass in a ‘W and D’ should be restricted to drawbars only. Afterall it’s a whole different experience, not much but we all know they differ slightly.
I honestly can’t see the difference between a pre and post 1997 licence holder, if anything it has opened more options for people to pass in either wagons but I still think you should be able to go for class 1 straight away. I asked an examiner why actually this happend, he said it was for ‘safety’ (he wasn’t in favour of the new system) someone in Brussels who drivers a desk decided that the UK and a few other countries should’t be allowed to allow automatic right to certain catergories. For example the pre-97 car licence they said that the weight limit and passenger numbers were too great to drive on a normal car licence, due to their width and length. But a Renault Mascott weighs 5.5 tonne unladen and a VW LT46 weighs 4.6 tonne unladen.
These basically are no bigger than a transit, except they have double wheel base and maybe a bit higher off the ground. There not the same size as a 7.5 tonne Iveco, but they do obviously the same payload.
That’s why I think the law is an ■■■ when it comes to stuff like this.
I personally think that you should be given D1 and C1 catergories with a car licence, this is where common sense comes into place, if you think its out of your depth to drive the vehicle then don’t drive it. For example would a non-swimmer dive in at the deep end? No, because they realise they are out of their depth and can’t handle the situation. The rules aren’t going to change as the government and driving schools make money out of it, don’t get me wrong it is for safety in some aspects but most of all it gives employment to people such as your good self.
This isn’t a rant at you ROG
The above post gets even sillier when you look at car transporters and coach or bus drivers.
A typical 11 / 13 car carrier is an artic unit with a ringfeder / vbg coupling much more difficult to handle than an artic, yet this licence can be gained by pootling round in an 8 tonne DAF 45 with a caravan chassis hung behind it. Yet the bloke cannot drive a 2 axle rigid because it has too many passengers
Wheel Nut:
The above post gets even sillier when you look at car transporters and coach or bus drivers.A typical 11 / 13 car carrier is an artic unit with a ringfeder / vbg coupling much more difficult to handle than an artic, yet this licence can be gained by pootling round in an 8 tonne DAF 45 with a caravan chassis hung behind it. Yet the bloke cannot drive a 2 axle rigid because it has too many passengers
Exactly, this is my point (don’t worry I didn’t take the ‘silly’ as a stupid post 
)
What’s more dangerous, driving a 44 tonne artic full of petrol or driving a bus?
NikNik:
Now why should a pre 1997 driver only be allowed to be restricted to a ‘W+D’, yet a post 1997 driver can pass a test in a ‘W+D’ and be entitled to drive an artic that handles and is driven differently. Yet legally they can drive an artic. It just doesn’t make sense.
It doesn’t make sense but there isn’t a way of merging the old Class 1/2/3 system to the new C/C+E system that does make sense. If you let the old Class2 drivers have have C+E unrestricted then effectively you’re giving them a free licence upgrade to Class1 which previously was a separate test which doesn’t make a lot of sense either.
Paul
NikNik:
… if you think its out of your depth to drive the vehicle then don’t drive it. .
That can be a safety issue as a lot will think there are capable and then find out too late that they are not - usually after a nasty incident.
There used to be a BRS rental depot near me where car drivers with C1s on their licences could hire 7.5 tonners to do personal house moves etc.
It was very common to find them on the grass in the middle of the first roundabout Extra smiles as that was next to the police station 
NikNik:
This isn’t a rant at you ROG
OH 
- go on… I haven’t had anyone have a rant at me for ages… 
I think I’ll stick with your idea of a quick theory test and practical test and then we can do things legally .
Now I can see it from your point of view, some people do drive 7.5 tonners like cars. That’s one of the reasons why I failed one of my Class 2 tests, due to the fact of him speeding, crashing into me and failing to stop!!!.
I’d actually forgot about this until you mentioned people and roundabouts
My local van hire company still rent out 7.5t Cargo’s but they insist that you have driven one before! If you answer by saying that you have an HGV licence they still go and talk to the manager, ■■■■ teeth and ask you “But when was the last time you drove a Cargo?”
ROG:
From what I remember, there was not a seperate Wagon & drag test.
The HGV class 3s & 2s got the entitlement to pull a drag automatically - BUT I STAND TO BE CORRECTED on this point.This caused an ‘interesting’ situation when the UK HGV classes were scrapped in favour of the EU LGV classes.
The old HGV classes of 2 & 3 now become LGV class C
Whilst that’s true ROG, we shouldn’t forget to mention that the automatic pre-97 free entitlement to a ‘drag’ trailer was also removed from those who passed the then ‘new’ Cat “C” test.