Muslim culture being incompatible with our culture is not the issue here, nor is the mass immigration policy of the past decade, they are factors that need to addressed for sure, but here we are talking about acts of terrorism in the name of Islam. That should be the main focus until the threat is eradicated, then we should look at the big picture and by then with the removal of the extremists, the situation may be very different. When the hatred and the killings stop, maybe perception of Muslims won’t be so negative.
Not defending them in the slightest, but maybe they are now getting their own back against what has been done to them in the past … just saying !
Those of you defending not giving the “local Bobbie” the OPTION of being trained to carry a “proper” sidearm:
There WILL come a day when the barbarian/savage Muslim extremists do manage to smuggle/acquire an AK47 in the UK and the slaughter will be unimaginable then!!!
There are numerous Police murders over the past 40yrs on UK mainland whereby IMHO the Police Constables who were unfortunately murdered on duty would have stood a far better chance of living had they had the option to use a sidearm.
The poster who said they might not have the nerve to use one faced with a knife wielding maniac,
BALLS!!!
Sent from my SM-J500FN using Tapatalk
Is anybody else getting irritated at constantly hearing about how Londoners “are getting on with life as normal” and how that means “the terrorists won’t win” whilst we are faced with near blanket coverage of the events in the media? Special programming, TV specials, multiple page spreads in the paper etc. etc. Near enough the entire 6pm news programme tonight was dedicated to detailing the devastation , MP’s tearing up in parliament reading dedications & reporters stationed outside hospitals reporting on the victims, tugging on peoples heart strings.
If you ask me the terrorists are winning because of the amount of coverage. I thought exactly the same when the media were plastering stills of Jihadi John carrying out his beheadings, effectively terrorising the public on ISIS’ behalf.
Surely the best tactic is to ignore these idiots as much as possible & shed as little light as possible onto their actions? Report the basic facts & then just leave it.
raymundo:
Not defending them in the slightest, but maybe they are now getting their own back against what has been done to them in the past … just saying !
So who threw the first stone…?
raymundo:
Not defending them in the slightest, but maybe they are now getting their own back against what has been done to them in the past … just saying !
Which past? And getting back on whom? And what did the man or women in the street do to them personally?
rob22888:
Is anybody else getting irritated at constantly hearing about how Londoners “are getting on with life as normal” and how that means “the terrorists won’t win” whilst we are faced with near blanket coverage of the events in the media? Special programming, TV specials, multiple page spreads in the paper etc. etc. Near enough the entire 6pm news programme tonight was dedicated to detailing the devastation , MP’s tearing up in parliament reading dedications & reporters stationed outside hospitals reporting on the victims, tugging on peoples heart strings.If you ask me the terrorists are winning because of the amount of coverage. I thought exactly the same when the media were plastering stills of Jihadi John carrying out his beheadings, effectively terrorising the public on ISIS’ behalf.
Surely the best tactic is to ignore these idiots as much as possible & shed as little light as possible onto their actions? Report the basic facts & then just leave it.
I agree. Unfortunately that’s the nature of a free media. I think if left to choice the services and government would rather the media have their natural moment of covering a tragedy and then shut up about it.
Peculiar thing is its not that unusual for a device still to go off in NI causing some damage (we had one found yesterday) but you don’t hear about that in England. Imagine if that was in Luton and not in NI. Would be all over the news.
It’s because NI comparatively is peaceful - “comparatively”, compared to its past so the London media aren’t interested, it gets filed under “normal for NI”. I think the lack of mainland media coverage helps the on going striving for peace in NI. The actions aren’t getting the UK wide attention those very few individuals wish they could as they want to drag the whole place back to the nasty past.
And people in NI are well wise to individuals using fear and paranoia as tactics. They don’t scaremonger easily. They’re fed up with it, have had years of that, no one wants it and they carry on stoically. The local news reports these things but it’s never the sensationalist way that happens in England as there’s no appetite for sensasionalism on that topic here as it’s such a distasteful painful pill for many people.
Freight Dog:
raymundo:
Not defending them in the slightest, but maybe they are now getting their own back against what has been done to them in the past … just saying !Which past? And getting back on whom? And what did the man or women in the street do to them personally?
Maybe since the first Crusade in 1095 and throughout history, and what did the hundreds of thousands of innocent men, women and children killed since the first Gulf war do to the Western invaders to deserve to die ?
raymundo:
Freight Dog:
raymundo:
Not defending them in the slightest, but maybe they are now getting their own back against what has been done to them in the past … just saying !Which past? And getting back on whom? And what did the man or women in the street do to them personally?
Maybe since the first Crusade in 1095 and throughout history, and what did the hundreds of thousands of innocent men, women and children killed since the first Gulf war do to the Western invaders to deserve to die ?
Why don’t you have a look round the world to see how Christian minorities are fairing in other countries? That might better illustrate the average muslims’ attitude to kuffars.
raymundo:
Freight Dog:
raymundo:
Not defending them in the slightest, but maybe they are now getting their own back against what has been done to them in the past … just saying !Which past? And getting back on whom? And what did the man or women in the street do to them personally?
Maybe since the first Crusade in 1095 and throughout history, and what did the hundreds of thousands of innocent men, women and children killed since the first Gulf war do to the Western invaders to deserve to die ?
You seem to have left out history pre Crusades such as Islamic aggression against their own people and then Byzantine Christians throughout the Middle East in which the Crusades were a war of liberation by the standards of the day.Then later the Islamic invasion and subjugation of Europe such as Greece from 1450-1853 and throughout the Balkans between at least 1389-1920.
As for GW 1 that was actually one Muslim faction calling on ‘the West’ to get involved in their internal squabble with another and us then stupidly answering the call in helping them,not a case of us walking in.While GW2 was obviously the wrong retaliatory action in the wrong place in reply to aggression or potential aggression in the region and outside it.
Which leaves the questions why would Western leaders now want to put Europe at increased risk of Jihad etc by mass Middle Eastern etc Islamic immigration in addition to that already here.While it’s equally clear,that the issue of what we’ve done rightly or wrongly in the Middle East is just being used as an excuse and a scapegoat to cover up what is an obvious and predictable issue of split loyalties, among a significant faction,of the immigrant population.Regardless of whether it’s born here or not.
Evil8Beezle:
Winseer:
Imagine the Blitz had it occurred whilst parliament dallies with “Should we declare war upon Germany or not?”We did?
At the risk of invoking CF, have you not heard of David Lloyd George?
The Blitz was WWII. David Lloyd Geroge was WWI. I don’t see the connection.
Chamberlain declared war upon Germany, and then resigned to make way for Winston Churchill. Things would have been pretty ugly if he’d decided to stay, and NOT declare war upon Germany. Hitler would have picked off each country in an orderly fashion, and left Britain until last. His war was lost the moment he went for Poland rather than Switzerland of course. No one ever credited Hitler as being a Poker Player or Political Scientist though. It was the Henchmen who put flesh on the bones of his policies, and then it was they who pretty much did what they liked whilst implementing those policies. Too busy persecuting people at home instead of getting a better measure of your next potential enemies abroad. Bad politic.
We’re supposed to be at war with Terror, and with today’s Terrorists no longer being the IRA, we should concentrate our efforts on getting rid of our present enemy, and those that ally themselves with it. Sinn Fein was once not recognized. I would sincerely hope that we’re not about to recognize Islamic State in their own definition which is “Representing Muslims Worldwide.” Muslims all over can deny it as much as they like, but let’s face it - in this 21st century where people brought up as Christian or Jewish found it easy to “lapse” their birth religion - it’s about time we pushed “western lapsing” onto those bringing their intact and firebrand religion into this country when they SAY they are running away from it.
Prove it.
Renounce Islam upon arrival - or be deported.
It’s not a “Religion of Peace” any more than the ■■■■ party “Cult” was.
Winseer:
it’s about time we pushed “western lapsing” onto those bringing their intact and firebrand religion into this country when they SAY they are running away from it.Prove it.
Renounce Islam upon arrival - or be deported.
It’s not a “Religion of Peace” any more than the ■■■■ party “Cult” was.
The real question is why are the Western governments so keen on importing this unstable demographic to the point of potential local takeover,rather than keeping it well away from us in its Middle Eastern heartlands ?.While obviously regarding anyone who disagrees among the indigenous population as the bigger enemy branded as so called ‘far right’ extremists. 
IE some weird unfathomable agenda of our own governments within an obvious clear agenda within the Saudi one.
Leaving the even more massive question what’s the Western government’s end game here. 
Winseer:
Evil8Beezle:
Winseer:
Imagine the Blitz had it occurred whilst parliament dallies with “Should we declare war upon Germany or not?”We did?
At the risk of invoking CF, have you not heard of David Lloyd George?
The Blitz was WWII. David Lloyd Geroge was WWI. I don’t see the connection.
Chamberlain declared war upon Germany, and then resigned to make way for Winston Churchill. Things would have been pretty ugly if he’d decided to stay, and NOT declare war upon Germany. Hitler would have picked off each country in an orderly fashion, and left Britain until last. His war was lost the moment he went for Poland rather than Switzerland of course. No one ever credited Hitler as being a Poker Player or Political Scientist though. It was the Henchmen who put flesh on the bones of his policies, and then it was they who pretty much did what they liked whilst implementing those policies. Too busy persecuting people at home instead of getting a better measure of your next potential enemies abroad. Bad politic.
We’re supposed to be at war with Terror, and with today’s Terrorists no longer being the IRA, we should concentrate our efforts on getting rid of our present enemy, and those that ally themselves with it. Sinn Fein was once not recognized. I would sincerely hope that we’re not about to recognize Islamic State in their own definition which is “Representing Muslims Worldwide.” Muslims all over can deny it as much as they like, but let’s face it - in this 21st century where people brought up as Christian or Jewish found it easy to “lapse” their birth religion - it’s about time we pushed “western lapsing” onto those bringing their intact and firebrand religion into this country when they SAY they are running away from it.
Prove it.
Renounce Islam upon arrival - or be deported.
It’s not a “Religion of Peace” any more than the ■■■■ party “Cult” was.
My mistake, Chamberlain was who I meant! 
(Brain ■■■■… 
)
But the point still remains that we did dally in deciding to declare war on Germany, and he seemed more interested in appeasement with Hitler than realising that Hitler wouldn’t be satisfied with the Munich Agreement, and would want more…
And I can’t agree that Hitler’s war was lost when he invaded Poland, as every documentary I’ve seen on the topic say that point was when he turned on Russia and had to fight on 2 fronts.
Evil8Beezle:
My mistake, Chamberlain was who I meant!
(Brain ■■■■…
But the point still remains that we did dally in deciding to declare war on Germany, and he seemed more interested in appeasement with Hitler than realising that Hitler wouldn’t be satisfied with the Munich Agreement, and would want more…And I can’t agree that Hitler’s war was lost when he invaded Poland, as every documentary I’ve seen on the topic say that point was when he turned on Russia and had to fight on 2 fronts.
Chamberlain was a hero who was playing for time in setting out to fool Hitler that we weren’t a threat to him and succeeded.While we armed ourselves with the air and naval power needed to stand the slightest chance of withstanding a war with Germany.If he’d have gone for it in 1938 let alone sooner we’d have lost the Battle of Britain and Hood would have been the best ship in the Navy and Germany would have invaded thereby stopping any chance of D Day and US involvement in Europe.On that note Germany was only fighting a war on two fronts from the point of losing the Battle of Britain.With no reason to go for Russia or ally with Japan against the US if he’d have won it.I only got that view by listening to the people who were there in the day.
The recent TV programme SSGB was a reasonably accurate view of what would have happened if the Battle of Britain had been lost at least up to the point where it lost its way with the ridiculous King rescue and nuclear plot story line.On that note it was realistic enough to make my old Mum be too upset to watch it much past the opening credits.
What that has to do with the Western governments flooding Europe with an already proven Islamic demographic threat to it is anyone’s guess.
The world must be doing someting right when the organisation or terrorist group who did this has to resort to driving a car or a truck to make a point, its a long way from 9/11 and its a sad state of affairs for some organisation to claim responsibility for something like this, they are getting desperate for regcognition and the worlds media is helping them get there regcognition with all there fake news and ■■■■■■■■ they report, talk about milking a cow they just dont know when the ■■■■ to shut up, there is a lot worse that this going on all over the world that they dont report
And as i said before the person who did this is your neighbour.
Big Truck:
Those of you defending not giving the “local Bobbie” the OPTION of being trained to carry a “proper” sidearm:
There WILL come a day when the barbarian/savage Muslim extremists do manage to smuggle/acquire an AK47 in the UK and the slaughter will be unimaginable then!!!There are numerous Police murders over the past 40yrs on UK mainland whereby IMHO the Police Constables who were unfortunately murdered on duty would have stood a far better chance of living had they had the option to use a sidearm.
The poster who said they might not have the nerve to use one faced with a knife wielding maniac,
BALLS!!!Sent from my SM-J500FN using Tapatalk
While I always been a big believer of arming police with gun, I realise it doesn’t sort anything.
Except from Britain, every police force in Europe is armed with at least a handgun.
Did it stop the attacks in France (twice), Belgium, Germany? Did it?
The only thing I see is that in the USA there are more innocent people shot by trigger happy policemen than anywhere else in the Western world.
Not every policeman / woman is capable to make that decision of life and dead.
Not every police men / women is even capable to shoot properly, everybody who has been trained in the army or police with a handgun or a snipergun knows that only very few could hit a target in the proper place (legs, underbody instead straight through the head)
Would you really want to have the bullits flying around in a busy city like London.
On the other side, I don’t understand why our parliament and airports are not protected by snipers on strategic places.
raymundo:
Freight Dog:
raymundo:
Not defending them in the slightest, but maybe they are now getting their own back against what has been done to them in the past … just saying !Which past? And getting back on whom? And what did the man or women in the street do to them personally?
Maybe since the first Crusade in 1095 and throughout history, and what did the hundreds of thousands of innocent men, women and children killed since the first Gulf war do to the Western invaders to deserve to die ?
The crusaders died along time ago. If it’s ancient eye for an eye by a thirty something thats tenuous at least. Do people go round killing modern Germans because of WW2? That eye for an eye is an excuse. It’s far more to do with using fear to control people.
The Crusades are a popular snipe, the often ignore truth is the rest of the world were pleasant back then. The Middle East before the crusades wasn’t exactly the bastion of safety and good bevahiour. Just choose your spot of violence whenever you went back then. And elsewhere outside of religion they still cut heads off, killed each other. It was the times.
Carryfast:
Winseer:
it’s about time we pushed “western lapsing” onto those bringing their intact and firebrand religion into this country when they SAY they are running away from it.Prove it.
Renounce Islam upon arrival - or be deported.
It’s not a “Religion of Peace” any more than the ■■■■ party “Cult” was.The real question is why are the Western governments so keen on importing this unstable demographic to the point of potential local takeover,rather than keeping it well away from us in its Middle Eastern heartlands ?.While obviously regarding anyone who disagrees among the indigenous population as the bigger enemy branded as so called ‘far right’ extremists.
IE some weird unfathomable agenda of our own governments within an obvious clear agenda within the Saudi one.
Leaving the even more massive question what’s the Western government’s end game here.
Now you’re talking my language, what is their end game? I’ve no idea, this is beyond my comprehension, maybe ISIS was intended to put the house of Saud out of the picture and like the arming of the Mujahideen it has bitten them on the arse, maybe it’s the next wave of cheap labour? Maybe there’s something other than oil beneath the region, a mineral that will be more valuable than oil in the future? I don’t know the specifics, but I would be willing to bet that somebody is making an absolute fortune out of it.
caledoniandream:
Big Truck:
Those of you defending not giving the “local Bobbie” the OPTION of being trained to carry a “proper” sidearm:
There WILL come a day when the barbarian/savage Muslim extremists do manage to smuggle/acquire an AK47 in the UK and the slaughter will be unimaginable then!!!There are numerous Police murders over the past 40yrs on UK mainland whereby IMHO the Police Constables who were unfortunately murdered on duty would have stood a far better chance of living had they had the option to use a sidearm.
The poster who said they might not have the nerve to use one faced with a knife wielding maniac,
BALLS!!!Sent from my SM-J500FN using Tapatalk
While I always been a big believer of arming police with gun, I realise it doesn’t sort anything.
Except from Britain, every police force in Europe is armed with at least a handgun.
Did it stop the attacks in France (twice), Belgium, Germany? Did it?The only thing I see is that in the USA there are more innocent people shot by trigger happy policemen than anywhere else in the Western world.
Not every policeman / woman is capable to make that decision of life and dead.
Not every police men / women is even capable to shoot properly, everybody who has been trained in the army or police with a handgun or a snipergun knows that only very few could hit a target in the proper place (legs, underbody instead straight through the head)
Would you really want to have the bullits flying around in a busy city like London.On the other side, I don’t understand why our parliament and airports are not protected by snipers on strategic places.
Local Police in Berlin have handguns, same in Belfast. There’s no bullets flying around?
Where I will agree with one point is that the Police in NI were recruited and selected from the start with firearms in mind. Perhaps some of the individuals in the English Police wouldn’t make suitable holders of them. Tasers get misused because they’re viewed as non lethal, I don’t think even the most stupid of coppers would go around shooting miscreants ad hoc. The repercussions too serious.
To say it would turn into the states misss the point of why the states is like that. It’s not to do with coppers carrying guns rather their lack of gun control in the first place. See again Germany, France. Armed Police but you wouldn’t say it was like America?
For those who say guns aren’t the answer, some had to have been, as Luke said, it only took a knife to kill - but the truth is it did take a firearm to stop it. And it took firearms to stop all the other attacks around Europe.
Carryfast:
raymundo:
Freight Dog:
raymundo:
Not defending them in the slightest, but maybe they are now getting their own back against what has been done to them in the past … just saying !Which past? And getting back on whom? And what did the man or women in the street do to them personally?
Maybe since the first Crusade in 1095 and throughout history, and what did the hundreds of thousands of innocent men, women and children killed since the first Gulf war do to the Western invaders to deserve to die ?
You seem to have left out history pre Crusades such as Islamic aggression against their own people and then Byzantine Christians throughout the Middle East in which the Crusades were a war of liberation by the standards of the day.Then later the Islamic invasion and subjugation of Europe such as Greece from 1450-1853 and throughout the Balkans between at least 1389-1920.
As for GW 1 that was actually one Muslim faction calling on ‘the West’ to get involved in their internal squabble with another and us then stupidly answering the call in helping them,not a case of us walking in.While GW2 was obviously the wrong retaliatory action in the wrong place in reply to aggression or potential aggression in the region and outside it.
Which leaves the questions why would Western leaders now want to put Europe at increased risk of Jihad etc by mass Middle Eastern etc Islamic immigration in addition to that already here.While it’s equally clear,that the issue of what we’ve done rightly or wrongly in the Middle East is just being used as an excuse and a scapegoat to cover up what is an obvious and predictable issue of split loyalties, among a significant faction,of the immigrant population.Regardless of whether it’s born here or not.
+1. The Middle East destabilisation started centuries ago with their own factions either side of Islam. I worked with a history professor who wrote books on the side. We were over Iran and he explained quite a lot about chaos corner.