Availabilty and other work

davy1111 · 31 May 2012 20:07

hi guys, just quick question, what does availabilty and other work mean on the drivers hours, i know driving time is driving, rest for breaks, dont understand what others mean, any help apprecated

lee_g · 31 May 2012 20:12

In simple terms other work is when you are doing any form of activity that is job related but not driving, ie. opening curtains or doors or dealing with paperwork/handballing.

Poa ( period of availability) is what you use if you are having to wait and you know the rough duration, ie you get to a tip and you know you will have to wait for 1 hour you can whack it on poa. It means you are not working/driving but are available for work at short motice.

A lot of people dont use poa, they just use break, not completely right but not legally wrong.

lee_g · 31 May 2012 20:15

Davy, do a search for gv262 on the vosa website, its a simple to understand thing about hours and when you should use the modes, explains poa and things like that (if i remember correctly)

tachograph · 31 May 2012 20:29

Basically you have four activities, break, other work, POA and rest.

Break is the time during the shift that you can use exclusively for recuperation (when your not working).
For the EU rules driving is when the wheels are turning.
Other work is any activity other than driving, break or POA you do during duty time.
POA is when you are available for work but not actually working, it’s a bit more complicated than that so ask if you need a better explanation.

Have a read of the VOSA booklet Rules on Drivers’ Hours and Tachographs and post back if you need any-more help.

Good luck

davy1111 · 31 May 2012 21:09

thanxs very much guys for your quick reply,s, studying mod4 at minute and hopely not be long until on the road, depending how long it takes to get job just want to know my stuff before hand, thanxs guys

bigfoot · 2 June 2012 21:32

Im going to hijack this thread so i dont start another

its about POA, and i’ve asked before but im still not 100% with it.

I understand the princple of it, when to use it and what its for etc. From what im aware, it doesnt count as other work but does’nt count as break either.

So , if i start my shift at 12:00 and i work until 13:00 then go on POA for an hour until 14:00, would i have until 18:00 or 19:00 for my 30min WTD break?

Reason i ask it is beacuse POA doesnt count as break so does the hour of POA i have in effect extend my 6hrs by an hour before i have to have a 30min WTD break, providing i have’nt completed 4.5hrs driving?

Many thanks

lee_g · 2 June 2012 21:57

bigfoot:
Im going to hijack this thread so i dont start another

its about POA, and i’ve asked before but im still not 100% with it.

I understand the princple of it, when to use it and what its for etc. From what im aware, it doesnt count as other work but does’nt count as break either.

So , if i start my shift at 12:00 and i work until 13:00 then go on POA for an hour until 14:00, would i have until 18:00 or 19:00 for my 30min WTD break?

Reason i ask it is beacuse POA doesnt count as break so does the hour of POA i have in effect extend my 6hrs by an hour before i have to have a 30min WTD break, providing i have’nt completed 4.5hrs driving?

Many thanks

In a word no, you still need to take you 15 before the 6 hours, you cant ‘extend’ the 6 hours by being on poa, but if thats the case that you have 1 hour of poa just put it to break for the first 15 minutes

tachograph · 3 June 2012 00:44

bigfoot:
Im going to hijack this thread so i dont start another

its about POA, and i’ve asked before but im still not 100% with it.

I understand the princple of it, when to use it and what its for etc. From what im aware, it doesnt count as other work but does’nt count as break either.

So , if i start my shift at 12:00 and i work until 13:00 then go on POA for an hour until 14:00, would i have until 18:00 or 19:00 for my 3Ì¶0Ì¶mÌ¶iÌ¶nÌ¶ WTD break?

Reason i ask it is beacuse POA doesnt count as break so does the hour of POA i have in effect extend my 6hrs by an hour before i have to have a 3Ì¶0Ì¶mÌ¶iÌ¶nÌ¶ WTD break, providing i have’nt completed 4.5hrs driving?

Many thanks

POA is the state of being available for work it’s not when you’re working, in fact it’s illegal to be working whilst on POA, so I would say that it does not count towards the 6 hours.

If you start your shift at 12:00 and have an hour on POA from 13:00 to 14:00 then you should have a break of at-least 15 minutes no later than 19:00.

bigfoot · 3 June 2012 09:00

Many thanks for your useful replies.

TACHOGRAPH…do i only need to take 15mins as a wtd break and not 30min? Also are vosa or companies strict on you adhering to the wtd rules?

Thanks in advance
Ben

onlyalan · 3 June 2012 09:12

bigfoot:
Many thanks for your useful replies.

TACHOGRAPH…do i only need to take 15mins as a wtd break and not 30min? Also are vosa or companies strict on you adhering to the wtd rules?

Thanks in advance
Ben

As a mobile worker you can take an take 15 minutes break within the first six hours of work and a further 15 minutes (to take you up to 30 minutes) within the next 3 hours. This is so the 15 minute (WTD) break can also be your 15 minute driving (EU rules) break.
As an aside, you cannot take a WTD break right at the end of your shift (i.e. work 5.45 hours, take a 0.15 break and then immediately clock-off.

With regard to VOSA, they are currently showing little interest in WTD breaks and when they do they seem to have a policy of ‘education’ on the matter.

Hope this helps.

tachograph · 3 June 2012 09:39

bigfoot:
do i only need to take 15mins as a wtd break and not 30min? Also are vosa or companies strict on you adhering to the wtd rules?

As OnlyAlan said you only need a break of 15 minutes to comply with the 6 hour rule, if your total working time is between 6 and 9 hours you should have another 15 minute break before the end of shift.
If your total working time is more than 9 hours you would need a further 30 minutes break/breaks before the end of shift.

All WTD breaks can be taken in separate breaks of no less than 15 minutes each and should interrupt the working time so cannot be taken at the immediate start or end of shift.

VOSA have publicly said that they’re not really interested in the WTD as they see the drivers hours regulations as adequate, whether or not that will always be the case … who knows, but I suspect the EU Gestapo will eventually make them enforce the working time regulations

My personal view is that as the 6 hour rule break is obvious when your chart/card is checked I comply with it, I’ve no idea if VOSA even bother to check for compliance of the 6 hour rule break but I do know that many companies will issue infringements for failure to comply with the WTD.

wheel_nut · 4 June 2012 16:10

OnlyAlan:
As an aside, you cannot take a WTD break right at the end of your shift (i.e. work 5.45 hours, take a 0.15 break and then immediately clock-off.

Hope this helps.

Why would you want to?

onlyalan · 4 June 2012 16:41

Wheel Nut:

OnlyAlan:
As an aside, you cannot take a WTD break right at the end of your shift (i.e. work 5.45 hours, take a 0.15 break and then immediately clock-off.

Hope this helps.

Why would you want to?

The 2 example scenarios that come to mind are:

For a worker who is paid his break times - to get paid for 6 hours rather than 5.45.
For a worker who isn’t paid his break times - to effectively ‘have his break’ whilst on his way home (OK, in this example it would be more relevant if he had worked more than 6 hours).

tachograph · 4 June 2012 16:48

OnlyAlan:

Wheel Nut:

OnlyAlan:
As an aside, you cannot take a WTD break right at the end of your shift (i.e. work 5.45 hours, take a 0.15 break and then immediately clock-off.

Hope this helps.

Why would you want to?

The 2 example scenarios that come to mind are:

For a worker who is paid his break times - to get paid for 6 hours rather than 5.45.

For a worker who isn’t paid his break times - to effectively ‘have his break’ whilst on his way home (OK, in this example it would be more relevant if he had worked more than 6 hours).

Don’t think you thought that one out properly did you.

If you’re only working 6 hours you don’t legally need a wtd break so it wouldn’t matter if you had a break immediately before booking off at 6 hours

Or have I misunderstood what you meant ?

paul_gloria_meadows · 24 June 2012 08:19

I run my own little system. card goes in first thing. Drive/work for about 2hrs then stop for my breaky and take a 15 min break. this covers me for the 15min WTD break and my first 15min tacho break. I then work/drive for another 4 hrs or so and then take a 30min which will cover the second 15min WTD rule for the 9hrs and clear my card to set off with 4.5hrs driving. Obviously I keep and eye on my first driving period and stop and take the 30min if I’m running out of time. Been driving for about 5 years now and rarley get an infringment anymore.

Saying all that, day to day can change and its not always possible to stop after 2hrs and thats normally when I forget to take the 15min WTD break.

pops77 · 24 June 2012 10:12

ive got to say i never use POA…what happens with agency? i mean could they say we not going to pay for POA? or do they still have to pay for those hours? and do u record this onto your time sheet…ive never bothered although there is a sapce for poa and rest. i just put 45 mins in rest and keep it on rest/other work while tipping etc