Autonomous vehicle accident caused by

UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS THE UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUM (INTERACTIVE)
21

UKtramp:
The last of the deep coal mines in Britain was Kellingley Colliery in Knottingley, Millions of £s worth of equipment was left underground as they destroyed the pit. There is also an estimated 25 years of coal reserves which could be brought to the surface still, yet they chose to close it down in order to bring in cheap imported coal from elsewhere. It is a financial decision which was made, people and their jobs do not enter this equation, whose problem is it to sort out the destruction of mining communities and re employ these workers? It is no different to the drivers of HGV in this country, no one cares if drivers lose their jobs. The drivers will have to simply find alternate employment in the same way the minors have to and equally in the same way when the fishing industry collapsed and fishermen had to find alternate employment. Autonomous vehicles will save billions of £s and have a positive effect on the economy

How do you explain the contradiction in rightly saying that the closure of the mines devastated the local economies where the miners spent their wages and added to the labour supply thereby depressing wage levels across the board.Then jumping to the opposite conclusion that putting the even higher number of those involved in driving everything from taxis to trucks on the dole will have a ‘positive effect’ on the economy in terms of lost spending and higher benefit burden ?.

Or how do reach the conclusion that many/most ‘drivers’ are not as solely dependent on their trade as miners were on theirs and that those skills are not actually even less transferable in many cases.While,even in the case of them finding ‘alternative’ employment,in an environment of even higher labour supply and in which automation increasingly takes over numerous alternative sectors, the wage levels will inevitably be lower.

Therefore the net result being less humans employed and those that are in an even more over supplied job market having earning less with less money to spend.With expensive robot technology turning out products or delivering goods which unemployed,or at best low paid humans,can’t afford to buy.

On that note,like Rjan,it seems clear that you’ve missed the point that we’re talking about a situation here which has the potential to tip the balance into the situation where automation removes more jobs from the economy than it creates.While also confirming that Rjan’s so called ‘state solutions’ will be anything but,in the form of saying a robot has taken your job now just get on with it. :unamused:

22

IronEddie:
"Unfortunately the delivery truck did not stop and grazed the front fender of the shuttle. Had the truck had the same sensing equipment that the shuttle has, the accident would have been avoided.”

There’s the problem. Old technology, human driven vehicles won’t ever mix well with autonomous vehicles. So unless overnight every human driven old vehicle is taken off the roads accidents will always happen.

Also isn’t the programing of the autonomous bus a bit simple? Just stop dead, if it had been programed to reverse or take other avoiding action then the crash would have been avoided. A human driver would have done just that if they realised the lorry wasn’t going to stop.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

The roads will be full of driverless vehicles waiting for each other to get out of the way… :grimacing:

23

UKtramp:
The last of the deep coal mines in Britain was Kellingley Colliery in Knottingley, Millions of £s worth of equipment was left underground as they destroyed the pit. There is also an estimated 25 years of coal reserves which could be brought to the surface still, yet they chose to close it down in order to bring in cheap imported coal from elsewhere. It is a financial decision which was made, people and their jobs do not enter this equation, whose problem is it to sort out the destruction of mining communities and re employ these workers? It is no different to the drivers of HGV in this country, no one cares if drivers lose their jobs. The drivers will have to simply find alternate employment in the same way the minors have to and equally in the same way when the fishing industry collapsed and fishermen had to find alternate employment. Autonomous vehicles will save billions of £s and have a positive effect on the economy, the drivers will have little impact on this change. There is no problem as the problem will be in the laps of the drivers who have lost their jobs only. Most drivers today come from various backgrounds and trades, very few are drivers who know nothing else but driving so the problem in the great scheme of things is quite limited. Minors and fishermen realistically new nothing else and had non transferable skills other than they were dam hard workers. If you believe that this will not happen because of drivers losing their jobs then that is pure fantasy on your part.Sum total is, No one cares.

The mining industry was destroyed because people allowed it to be destroyed. And not because it was automated, but simply because miner’s wages and working practices were undercut.

If people allow themselves to end up on the dole or starving to death, you’re right that nothing can help them. And in the same way that they will be helpless in that situation, they will be helpless in the face of the coming automation that enables it.

But if people have any power to resist their impending fate, they would be better off insisting on a right of access to the fruits of automatic machines, than insisting on the right to continue doing manually what the automatic machine would do for them.

24

IronEddie:
"Unfortunately the delivery truck did not stop and grazed the front fender of the shuttle. Had the truck had the same sensing equipment that the shuttle has, the accident would have been avoided.”

There’s the problem. Old technology, human driven vehicles won’t ever mix well with autonomous vehicles. So unless overnight every human driven old vehicle is taken off the roads accidents will always happen.

Also isn’t the programing of the autonomous bus a bit simple? Just stop dead, if it had been programed to reverse or take other avoiding action then the crash would have been avoided. A human driver would have done just that if they realised the lorry wasn’t going to stop.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

I’m a member o a US truck forum and a member said “the fridge truck had set his self up to reverse into the delivery and had started to reverse in as he normally did” usually traffic see his reverse lights and stay back to allow him in, but the auto couldn’t comprehend this and came in too close causing the truck driver to come into contact with the bumper o the auto( the truck driver took it for granted a driver would not get so close ). info came from a driver from the same fridge company.

25

Rjan:
if people have any power to resist their impending fate, they would be better off insisting on a right of access to the fruits of automatic machines, than insisting on the right to continue doing manually what the automatic machine would do for them.

Which at worse as we all know is an impossible dream.Because it would mean business taxes which would more than wipe out any potential ( more like the imaginary ) extra profits generated for their ‘ex’ employers by automation,to pay for the required unemployment benefits.

While even at best,assuming that we even get the required unemployment benefits regime,that still leaves the question of how does industry compensate for lost markets like the massive,human driven,car enthusiast market.Not to mention the resulting miserable zb world which that would be to anyone who likes to drive and spending their cash in that market.On the basis of us saying might as well use the bus or train than expensive and just as boring robot taxi.

On that note I don’t think you’ve thought through all of the implications of what the removal of the right to human driven private transport would actually mean in terms of the loss to the automotive industry let alone all the other implications and knock on effects of professional drivers ending up looking for alternative employment and not finding it.Added to increases in automation of other sectors of the economy adding yet more to the dole queue. :unamused:

26

JIMBO47:
I’m a member o a US truck forum and a member said “the fridge truck had set his self up to reverse into the delivery and had started to reverse in as he normally did” usually traffic see his reverse lights and stay back to allow him in, but the auto couldn’t comprehend this

:laughing:

It would be interesting to see how both being automated would have dealt with the situation. :smiling_imp:

27

Carryfast:

Rjan:
if people have any power to resist their impending fate, they would be better off insisting on a right of access to the fruits of automatic machines, than insisting on the right to continue doing manually what the automatic machine would do for them.

Which at worse as we all know is an impossible dream.Because it would mean business taxes which would more than wipe out any potential ( more like the imaginary ) extra profits generated for their ‘ex’ employers by automation,to pay for the required unemployment benefits.

But if you have no power to override the employers, then how will you override their intention to use automatic machines (which will, in a static economic analysis, be immensely profitable for them)?

While even at best,assuming that we even get the required unemployment benefits regime,that still leaves the question of how does industry compensate for lost markets like the massive,human driven,car enthusiast market.Not to mention the resulting miserable zb world which that would be to anyone who likes to drive and spending their cash in that market.On the basis of us saying might as well use the bus or train than expensive and just as boring robot taxi.

This is not so different from asking what would happen to washboard manufacturers when washing machines were introduced, and what would all those housewives do with their time now that it was just a case of throwing the clothes in the machine?

On that note I don’t think you’ve thought through all of the implications of what the removal of the right to human driven private transport would actually mean in terms of the loss to the automotive industry let alone all the other implications and knock on effects of professional drivers ending up looking for alternative employment and not finding it.Added to increases in automation of other sectors of the economy adding yet more to the dole queue. :unamused:

Well I don’t necessarily think we’re talking about the “removal of the right to drive”.

But what it does confront us with is the requirement to re-examine the basis on which people are entitled to a living. In the past, when the forces of production have been held back by the relations of production, what has happened is that the old relations have been replaced with new ones. Or if the ruling class have managed to stifle change in a particular place, then the economic developments have occurred elsewhere, and once it is obvious that society is being held back and if the ruling class who are successfully stifling change cannot be reasoned with, then either pressure grows until there is an internal revolution, or the entire society is conquered from outside.

Japan is a notable case of a society that held back capitalist relations for centuries until the Americans sailed up in metal warships to propose trade, and they realised how backward they had become. The British after the Second Boer War realised that conditions at home under free market conditions (laissez faire) had become so squalid that they could barely recruit the necessary troops to fight, whilst other European powers like Germany were steaming ahead with state intervention in public health and growing militarily stronger.