muckles:
Muckaway:
Talking to various people recently about the above, it amazes me just how many people dismiss autos without driving them.Yea it is amazing how many people feel qualified to comment on them, despite never having driven one. [emoji38]
So you mean Carryfast? [emoji14]
kr79:
Carryfast:
On that note many drivers don’t buy all the auto nonsense.So why not just agree to disagree and employers just base buying policy on the idea of providing drivers with the choice.You have never driven an auto truck which to the auto is crap brigade is an automated manual transmission.
I do three trips a day to a landfill site in a artic never do I feel I’ve got stuck where a manual would of kept me going.
As soon as I go off the road it’s in to manual and I choose the gears. Same as in certain conditions on road il over ride it to get the best out of it.
Like any computer or mechanical system it’s only as good as what it’s programed or told what to do.
I didn’t say autos are crap especially what seems to be the I shift which just seems to be a fuller that looks after itself and never has a bad day.While modern locking converters are also a game changer regarding some of the downsides of torque converter autos.
I said that even the best of them have no fine control over clutch slip for tight manoeuvreing and no eyes to see what’s happening ahead of them.Added to which some drivers also instinctively prefer to use a conventional clutch and box which I’d count myself among.Which then just leaves the question,other than certain applications like working mostly in an urban environment,is the automated manual’s advantage,of never having a bad day,or loss of concentration,worth all the extra complication and expense bearing in mind the above.Or for that matter the pointless on going bashing and attempted brainwashing,of those who just want to be given the choice in that regard,by the auto fan boys.
Auto for me everytime…
Conor:
Guy who did the abnormal weather driving module of my DCPC was a council gritter driver. He listened to everyone bleating on about how autos are crap in the snow and ice then chimed in and said that his gritter lorry was auto and he never got stuck.
To be fair it’s nothing new for councils to be looking for ways to make gritters easier to drive for what are often just highways workers with an HGV licence not ‘drivers’.On that note I can remember the whole fleet of DOT S85 Fodens being changed from Foden boxes to 9 speed Fullers because the Fuller was considered ‘easier’ for them to drive. 
While I’d guess that any supposed issues in bad weather can only be related to the fact that an automated manual can’t generally do finely judged clutch slip without either setting fire to the clutch or spinning the wheels.But which doesn’t seem to apply so much in the case of the I shift for some reason.
At one time I only ever drove vehicles with manual gearboxes, I also used to do handwashing of clothes an use public telephones too.
It’s 2016 now, roll with it.
Carryfast:
kr79:
Carryfast:
On that note many drivers don’t buy all the auto nonsense.So why not just agree to disagree and employers just base buying policy on the idea of providing drivers with the choice.You have never driven an auto truck which to the auto is crap brigade is an automated manual transmission.
I do three trips a day to a landfill site in a artic never do I feel I’ve got stuck where a manual would of kept me going.
As soon as I go off the road it’s in to manual and I choose the gears. Same as in certain conditions on road il over ride it to get the best out of it.
Like any computer or mechanical system it’s only as good as what it’s programed or told what to do.I didn’t say autos are crap especially what seems to be the I shift which just seems to be a fuller that looks after itself and never has a bad day.While modern locking converters are also a game changer regarding some of the downsides of torque converter autos.
I said that even the best of them have no fine control over clutch slip for tight manoeuvreing and no eyes to see what’s happening ahead of them.Added to which some drivers also instinctively prefer to use a conventional clutch and box which I’d count myself among.Which then just leaves the question,other than certain applications like working mostly in an urban environment,is the automated manual’s advantage,of never having a bad day,or loss of concentration,worth all the extra complication and expense bearing in mind the above.Or for that matter the pointless on going bashing and attempted brainwashing,of those who just want to be given the choice in that regard,by the auto fan boys.
I’ve never had a problem rcoking an I shift back and forth in a soft spot and even coupling up to a trailer and we are on springs not air. Our I shift hook loaders are fine when you need a bit of gentle movement in a tight spot or hooking the bin on.
I drove a scania opticruise but it had a clutch so can’t comment on fine control etc of the two pedal one.
I’ve driven daf and man artic with the zf auto but only in normal on road situations. They are not as good as I shift or as fast to change and always get the best gear straight away say as you slow down at a roundabout see a clear path so accelerare.
I found the fine control ok if you put it in the tortoise mode.
Yes they can’t see the road ahead but I’m told future generations will incorporate gps that will know the terrain.
But rather than the driver blaming the gearbox for everything knock it in to manual in a tricky situation and use the manual function to hold a gear or drop a gear and like will be much easier
We have a 10 plate Atego 13t 220 which we use for red diesel for generator refuels.
I drive it occasionally when I stand in for the regular guys. It’s got a six speed automated maual and it’s truly awful.
The take up from a standstill is dire kangarooing away - it’s nigh impossible to smoothly move off in traffic and as for manoevering (which we do a lot of) it’s embarrassing. Try reversing up a slight slope and whole truck is jumping around.
It constantly fidgets about through the gears on the move quite unneccessarily, much more than the human would.
When it was new it wasn’t so bad but the good times didn’t last and our concerns were met with shrugs from MB. Anyway the contraption had to have a new gearbox about 6 months ago and when it came back the take up was really good - for about 6 weeks and now it’s just as bad as ever.
I’ve driven an i-shift (in a 6 wheeler coach) and was impressed even though I’m an old skool dinosaur cogs man.
I’d guess about 70-80% of trucks over 7.5t are auto these days. That is only going to increase in my opinion. Some jobs are a bit more suited to a manual granted but even the timber trucks are gradually shifting over. It will go to about 90% for tractor units as factory standard anyway over the next few years i’d say.
Of course you’ll always get drivers that prefer a manual box but doubt it would put them working for a company with all auto’s for example etc its just a personal choice.
A good argument is that they cut down on driver fatigue in driving in built up areas quite a bit. I wouldn’t say they cut down on fuel compared to a manual, that is more down the particular driver and his driving style.
Carryfast:
While I’d guess that any supposed issues in bad weather can only be related to the fact that an automated manual can’t generally do finely judged clutch slip without either setting fire to the clutch or spinning the wheels.But which doesn’t seem to apply so much in the case of the I shift for some reason.
That’s why the roads are littered with burnt out autos, it’s drivers setting light to the clutch. And how do you know how finely judged the control of a modern auto truck is? You have never driven one.
I had no problem driving an auto truck across various mountain routes in Europe in weather that would bring the UK to a halt, or driving an auto truck in forests, on farms or on building sites, well except for a very old Renault, but things have improved since that was the option for an auto gearbox.
kr79:
But rather than the driver blaming the gearbox for everything knock it in to manual in a tricky situation and use the manual function to hold a gear or drop a gear and like will be much easier
That’s the point.Loads of expensive technology to buy and maintain just to save a bit of effort with left leg and arm at the end of the day.When the driver is being paid to drive the thing anyway. 
Carryfast:
for that matter the pointless on going bashing and attempted brainwashing,of those who just want to be given the choice in that regard,by the auto fan boys.
As opposed to the manual fan boy, at least most of the Fans of Autos actually have first hand experience of manual boxes of various types.
dave_k:
I’d guess about 70-80% of trucks over 7.5t are auto these days. That is only going to increase in my opinion. Some jobs are a bit more suited to a manual granted but even the timber trucks are gradually shifting over. It will go to about 90% for tractor units as factory standard anyway over the next few years i’d say.
There’s no reason to think it won’t go the way of the car world.Loads of new buyers and fleet suppliers going for autos.Then crashing head on with a used market often looking for manuals either through driver preference or resistance to expensive complicated technology.
Carryfast:
kr79:
But rather than the driver blaming the gearbox for everything knock it in to manual in a tricky situation and use the manual function to hold a gear or drop a gear and like will be much easierThat’s the point.Loads of expensive technology to buy and maintain just to save a bit of effort with left leg and arm at the end of the day.When the driver is being paid to drive the thing anyway.
Loads of expensive technology? Maybe in the early days, was more expensive and maybe troublesome, but my experience is the auto box is no more expensive to maintain, no less reliable and it’s probably cheaper to buy an auto now as it’s the standard spec and the manual is the option.
The reason i hate autos is that a real gearbox was one of several things (along with other forms of graft) that kept so many numpties safely out of our industry.
Its the prime mover as it were in the dumbing down of the job, which is fine if everyone likes dumbing down, unfortunately if you dumb something down don’t be surprised if it results in a minority of dummies wanting to do the job and being employable who otherwise wouldn’t have been, the more licence holders out there the cheaper the job.
I’d like a manual again, but not anything offered by Scania or Volvo who haven’t made a decent manual between them for decades, luckily their autos are decent enough even if some of the Scania ones would have been better fitted with wing nuts for fast replacement if our fleet is anything to go by.
However if i continue to work where the money is good, not hire and reward, then auto it is, and i like other chaps looking forward to retirement will just have to lump the junk till its time to hang the keys up for the last time.
muckles:
Carryfast:
for that matter the pointless on going bashing and attempted brainwashing,of those who just want to be given the choice in that regard,by the auto fan boys.As opposed to the manual fan boy, at least most of the Fans of Autos actually have first hand experience of manual boxes of various types.
How does saying give us the choice make anyone a fan boy of one or the other.
Carryfast:
dave_k:
I’d guess about 70-80% of trucks over 7.5t are auto these days. That is only going to increase in my opinion. Some jobs are a bit more suited to a manual granted but even the timber trucks are gradually shifting over. It will go to about 90% for tractor units as factory standard anyway over the next few years i’d say.There’s no reason to think it won’t go the way of the car world.Loads of new buyers and fleet suppliers going for autos.Then crashing head on with a used market often looking for manuals either through driver preference or resistance to expensive complicated technology.
Auto trucks been around for many years now, at least long enough to have come off the major fleets and into service with the smaller fleets, not read anything in the trade press saying they’re a problem for the trade to shift on.
Most drivers don’t get a say in what they drive, unless you have a very nice boss, and there seem to be plenty of drivers on here seem to be quite happy to get an auto instead of a manual.
Juddian:
I’d like a manual again, but not anything offered by Scania or Volvo who haven’t made a decent manual between them for decades,
I don’t think they were ever known for anything other than mediocre Synchros at any time at least in living memory.To the point where a Fuller conversion on either was an unarguable improvement. 
Carryfast:
Juddian:
I’d like a manual again, but not anything offered by Scania or Volvo who haven’t made a decent manual between them for decades,I don’t think they were ever known for anything other than mediocre Synchros at any time at least in living memory.To the point where a Fuller conversion on either was an unarguable improvement.
ISTR the splitter in the 110/111 wasn’t a bad box at all with ratios matching the engine well, never found a Volvo manual to be of any pleasure at all to use, not helped by Volvos engines from those days being utterly gutless.
Juddian:
Carryfast:
Juddian:
I’d like a manual again, but not anything offered by Scania or Volvo who haven’t made a decent manual between them for decades,I don’t think they were ever known for anything other than mediocre Synchros at any time at least in living memory.To the point where a Fuller conversion on either was an unarguable improvement.
ISTR the splitter in the 110/111 wasn’t a bad box at all with ratios matching the engine well, never found a Volvo manual to be of any pleasure at all to use, not helped by Volvos engines from those days being utterly gutless.
I’d say in the case of synchro boxes the 16 speed in the DAF 85 etc was as good as it got.To the point where if anyone had told me it was a constant mesh I’d have believed them.
Carryfast:
muckles:
Carryfast:
for that matter the pointless on going bashing and attempted brainwashing,of those who just want to be given the choice in that regard,by the auto fan boys.As opposed to the manual fan boy, at least most of the Fans of Autos actually have first hand experience of manual boxes of various types.
How does saying give us the choice make anyone a fan boy of one or the other.
To have a preference is fine, but you try and justify it by using reasons why the alternative isn’t as good without any experience of the alternative.
All we doing is telling that our experience of autos isn’t anything like what you are saying.
I quite like driving a manual now and then, but overall for everyday use I’d prefer an auto I also quite like driving an old classic car now and then, but for everyday use much prefer something far more modern, well 12 years old in my case.
