ParkRoyal2100:
Juddian:
The ZF box you’ve been enjoying immensely find its way into MAN and Iveco too, and if you think its pants in the DAF try a Stralis, words cannot express just how dire the experience will be, you could knit a wooly jumper whilst the heap decides what to do at a junction…as for the joke hill hold (actually WTF is a lorry doing with hill hold anway, isn’t controlling the thing a drivers job?) if you use it the thing releases about a second before the box has finished its second coffee morning and called the committee meeting to decide on the gear required, let along implement the bugger so if you use hill hold with satans gearbox in an Iveco you know what to expect.
Been there, suffered accordingly. The first time I jumped into one (a Stralis 8-legger with the 450 motor pulling a dog trailer) I thought “Well this should be a hoot”. At about 75% max GVW, for some unfathomable reason it decided to try moving off in 6th, then changed its mind and tried 4th, then changed its mind again - I can’t remember what gear it was in when it finally got going but at least I was out of the yard gates. From there on it all rather went downhill.
And yet, it’s still not the worst auto-manual out there. Stop me if you’ve heard this before, but there’s these Isuzu things I’ve been forced into driving…
No, never heard about one of those Isuezoo thingies before, do tell, are they the dogs danglies of auto box heaven… 
ADR, its a good point about training drivers properly on new tackle, but unfortunately its seems to be centred around maximising cruise control to get the most brownie points on the spying equipment, which isn’t necessarily the most economical way of driving, and they do not go into the nitty gritty of what tricks the driver might need to know for situations like the one i described above, course the cynic in me wonders if they too would be out of their depth, lets be honest standard fleet spec could be renamed parcel spec, about as much use as a chocolate teapot at the dead weight awkward situations some of us still encounter regularly.
Drivers don’t learn their vehicles any more, for example who the hell learns to drive their autos in manual for instance, only a handful of us i bet, no good trying to learn fine control when you need it desperately such as on snow, hence the roads grind to a halt when 2" arrives, you need to know your vehicle intimately to get the best from it and too many are now disinterested point and press merchants.
I feel the OP’s pain! I have had to endure MAN’s auto offering for about 5 years now. I have driven some other manufacturers autos and my conclusion is they’re all crap. Some are crappier than others for sure but I hate them all. I really do miss having a fist full of gears.
Dumbing down is my conclusion.
Stuff the fancy gearboxes, I’ll take a 9 speed Fuller. What more does a driver want?
A driver needs to be in charge, a driver needs to “feel” what his motor is doing.
grumpy old man:
Stuff the fancy gearboxes, I’ll take a 9 speed Fuller. What more does a driver want?
A driver needs to be in charge, a driver needs to “feel” what his motor is doing.
Aye your correct GOM, Im a Eaton Twin Splitter man myself, But nothing wrong with the Fuller 9 speed, One has to know the limitations of ones vehicle IMO, These fancy auto/box things gives the driver less control of his motor, Regards Larry.
This appeared on my Facebook page a couple of weeks ago.
For anyone moaning about auto boxes try driving in stop start traffic as we have to around some of the major cities here in the States, I have done it with a manual box and auto, I know which I prefer, when you have to try and stand up in the seat because your leg aches so much it says it all. The only thing against my Volvo auto is the dropping into 1st when it comes to a near standstill when 2nd would be adequate otherwise I have complete control by just a press of the buttons and more importantly control over the truck as I brake without having to use both feet and one hand changing gear. All I can say is read the manual and learn to drive the truck to get the best out of it. Auto boxes are here to stay might as well make the most of them.
chazzer:
For anyone moaning about auto boxes try driving in stop start traffic as we have to around some of the major cities here in the States, I have done it with a manual box and auto, I know which I prefer, when you have to try and stand up in the seat because your leg aches so much it says it all. The only thing against my Volvo auto is the dropping into 1st when it comes to a near standstill when 2nd would be adequate otherwise I have complete control by just a press of the buttons and more importantly control over the truck as I brake without having to use both feet and one hand changing gear. All I can say is read the manual and learn to drive the truck to get the best out of it. Auto boxes are here to stay might as well make the most of them.
The ‘moaning’ is probably’ ( rightly ) about drivers not having the choice and the auto ( or synchro box ) supporters trying to force their preferred option on everyone else.As for heavy clutches it seems that they’ve forgotten all about fitting air assisted clutch operation over there. 
^^^exactly! That’s what grinds my gears not being given the choice of gearbox to suit the job the truck does. I don’t do much city driving but I do go on building sites a lot and have to get into and out of some very tight spots. These bloody auto’s just make it even harder trying to do it nicely without looking like a noob!
I was chatting to a neighbours lad this afternoon and he drives a truck for S.J Bargh with an auto box and reckons they are fantastic and ease his workload a lot. He cannot believe that some operators still spec manual boxes as no way would he go back to one now that he is used to an automatic. I guess that what suits some doesn’t suit others?
Pete.
Lawrence Dunbar:
grumpy old man:
Stuff the fancy gearboxes, I’ll take a 9 speed Fuller. What more does a driver want?
A driver needs to be in charge, a driver needs to “feel” what his motor is doing.
Aye your correct GOM, Im a Eaton Twin Splitter man myself, But nothing wrong with the Fuller 9 speed, One has to know the limitations of ones vehicle IMO, These fancy auto/box things gives the driver less control of his motor, Regards Larry.
Iam with you Larry ,the twin split is the best automatic manual box ever .
I suppose if your millage is all motorway autos can have a place but if your stop start and a lot of manoeuvring you need a clutch . driver needs control of what he is trying to do without it is like a fish out of water . for a manufacturer to force the issue seems like profiteering . it’s there job to provide a truck fit for purpose and owners should spec as such or go and find another that will . autos some are better than others and can be tweeked slightly in the settings but in my opinion have a place . but can’t beat a manual box …
Dan Punchard:
Lawrence Dunbar:
grumpy old man:
Stuff the fancy gearboxes, I’ll take a 9 speed Fuller. What more does a driver want?
A driver needs to be in charge, a driver needs to “feel” what his motor is doing.
Aye your correct GOM, Im a Eaton Twin Splitter man myself, But nothing wrong with the Fuller 9 speed, One has to know the limitations of ones vehicle IMO, These fancy auto/box things gives the driver less control of his motor, Regards Larry.
Iam with you Larry ,the twin split is the best automatic manual box ever .
Sort them out Dan “they’er all in one box mate” 
Did you have any EPS Dennis ?
Dan Punchard:
Did you have any EPS Dennis ?
They were in the Mercs we ran IIRC Dan,great boxes,the gear stick was just a “switch” although they had a “clutch” for the British market which wasn’t really required from memory. Cheers Dennis.
I had an EPs merc on demo what a ■■■■ to get in reverse …hold square button in move across and back can still here that noise now once got the hang of it was OK
Seem to remember Willi Betz had at least one man trained on EPs boxes per truck as they had there problems
wirksworth rod:
windrush:
I was chatting to a neighbours lad this afternoon and he drives a truck for S.J Bargh with an auto box and reckons they are fantastic and ease his workload a lot. He cannot believe that some operators still spec manual boxes as no way would he go back to one now that he is used to an automatic. I guess that what suits some doesn’t suit others?
Pete.
yep thats gilly slap it in drive cruse control on job done 
he tells me misses playing with the big boys 
Spot on there Rod, not one for overworking himself if he can help it! 
Pete.
karl2878:
I suppose if your millage is all motorway autos can have a place but if your stop start and a lot of manoeuvring you need a clutch . driver needs control of what he is trying to do without it is like a fish out of water . for a manufacturer to force the issue seems like profiteering . it’s there job to provide a truck fit for purpose and owners should spec as such or go and find another that will . autos some are better than others and can be tweeked slightly in the settings but in my opinion have a place . but can’t beat a manual box …
In terms of slow speed work there is a difference between torque converter autos v automated manuals.Torque converters are happy with slow speed shunting etc.But automated manuals don’t even seem to have any sensors and interface between engine/flywheel speed and input shaft speed so they obviously don’t have a clue as to the amount of clutch slip or where it’s biting or not.The end result inevitably being a compromise that either tries to burn out its clutch or snatches unlike the human brain connected to a clutch pedal and accelerator control.
As for anything other than a decent manual constant mesh box with an air assisted clutch on a truck the answer has to be why.With any answer in favour of auto or synchro can only realistically be an insult to the skills of any decent driver.
Carryfast:
karl2878:
I suppose if your millage is all motorway autos can have a place but if your stop start and a lot of manoeuvring you need a clutch . driver needs control of what he is trying to do without it is like a fish out of water . for a manufacturer to force the issue seems like profiteering . it’s there job to provide a truck fit for purpose and owners should spec as such or go and find another that will . autos some are better than others and can be tweeked slightly in the settings but in my opinion have a place . but can’t beat a manual box …
In terms of slow speed work there is a difference between torque converter autos v automated manuals.Torque converters are happy with slow speed shunting etc.But automated manuals don’t even seem to have any sensors and interface between engine/flywheel speed and input shaft speed so they obviously don’t have a clue as to the amount of clutch slip or where it’s biting or not.The end result inevitably being a compromise that either tries to burn out its clutch or snatches unlike the human brain connected to a clutch pedal and accelerator control.
As for anything other than a decent manual constant mesh box with an air assisted clutch on a truck the answer has to be why.With any answer in favour of auto or synchro can only realistically be an insult to the skills of any decent driver.
This is how I see it! I feel insulted that I can no longer be trusted to do the clutch/gearbox myself. I don’t care how clever they make these auto boxes, they can never be better than a decent driver. We have some newly qualified drivers at our place and the standards are pretty poor tbh which could be down to the fact they’ve made trucks too easy to drive. Put it this way, give them 12 or 16 gears to deal with they’d be screwed.
drove auto box now for last 3…4 years worst thing ever mis manuel box allso after a 4.5 hour drive get out of cab limp round truck till leg wakes up 